#1
so because i'm doing all things to avoid studying for my tests (boring stuff:P) i've decided to ask you guys a question

I know this has been asked countless times but all of those never really gave the answer i was looking for.

When it comes down to a guitar with 22 or 24 frets and not taking other things in account. what is the big difference? I know about the pickup placement giving a different sound but some say it is hardly noticable, is it? and are there really that much songs that require those 2 extra frets?
#2
having more frets usually means the neck pickup is a little brighter as it is often closer to the bridge - it's a matter of preference really. i don't think it makes enough difference to be a deal breaker really.

of course you're not restricted to songs that have already been written and arranged when you play guitar so that shouldn't really be a consideration with 24 frets - do you want 2 whole octaves on one string? that's really all there is to it.

of course on some guitars there's not much point having those extra frets since they aren't always within easy reach anyway.
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#3
Quote by Blompcube
having more frets usually means the neck pickup is a little brighter as it is often closer to the bridge - it's a matter of preference really. i don't think it makes enough difference to be a deal breaker really.

of course you're not restricted to songs that have already been written and arranged when you play guitar so that shouldn't really be a consideration with 24 frets - do you want 2 whole octaves on one string? that's really all there is to it.

of course on some guitars there's not much point having those extra frets since they aren't always within easy reach anyway.

but it does generally give a better access to the first 22 frets, which is a decent factor as well.
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#4
Quote by Blompcube
of course you're not restricted to songs that have already been written and arranged when you play guitar so that shouldn't really be a consideration with 24 frets - do you want 2 whole octaves on one string? that's really all there is to it.


What are exactly the benefits of having 2 whole octaves on one string?

Quote by randomhero93
but it does generally give a better access to the first 22 frets, which is a decent factor as well.


this would depend on bodyshape, right? or also for other factors?
#6
Personally I think it's more of an ego thing. Just as Spinal Tap's amps go to 11, shredders just love being able to say "I've got two more frets than you". It's useable, but not really practical.
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#7
No way man. Try hitting that note in Crossroads on a 22 fret guitar. You'll look like steve vai.

You cannot tell me uli roth has more frets for ego.
Or tosin abasi has more strings to show off.
#8
I don't mean All shredders. I just find a lot of "shredders" buy a 24 fret guitar because "It's more Metal".
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Electrics:
2008 Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plain Top (Cherryburst)
1964 Gibson Melody Maker D (DC)

Amps:
Traynor YGL-1

Pedals
MXR Distortion III (C4 Modded)
#9
would I be able to play most metal songs with just a 22 fret guitar or do they use the 23 and 24 a lot in metal and rock solo's ??
#11
Quote by Patrick89
What are exactly the benefits of having 2 whole octaves on one string?

i don't know whether you'd benefit from having 24 frets or not, or in what way you'd benefit from it, because that's for you to decide
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#12
Quote by Blompcube
i don't know whether you'd benefit from having 24 frets or not, or in what way you'd benefit from it, because that's for you to decide





And if w/e song your playing that requires 24 frets isn't too fast you could always bend. That's what I do for the constant motion solo.
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#13
Quote by RockinSince1993
I don't mean All shredders. I just find a lot of "shredders" buy a 24 fret guitar because "It's more Metal".

I listen/play metal and it seems every guitar I'm interested in are already 24 frets, and more often than not have a trem too. The only metal guitar I can think of off the top of my head with 22 frets are the older ibby sabers.
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#14
I can't go less than 24 frets, myself. I use it way too much, it'd be like missing a finger to go less. Simply put:

22 frets = more space for the neck pickup. That makes it ever so slightly bassier and it picks up less treble. That's all it does. Anyone who tells you about it being under the 'harmonic' for tone knows nothing about harmonics; the node of an harmonic is where the string doesn't ring, so putting a pickup there means you get nothing. Moving the pickup back (i.e. 24 frets) or using the bridge pickup will make you get that harmonic overtone instead from the open strings.

Other than that, fret access depends entirely on the body shape. You can have a 22-fret guitar with a brilliant cutaway, but you could also have a 24-fret guitar with a cutaway at the 17th fret...
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#15
Quote by Dayn
I can't go less than 24 frets, myself. I use it way too much, it'd be like missing a finger to go less. Simply put:

22 frets = more space for the neck pickup. That makes it ever so slightly bassier and it picks up less treble. That's all it does. Anyone who tells you about it being under the 'harmonic' for tone knows nothing about harmonics; the node of an harmonic is where the string doesn't ring, so putting a pickup there means you get nothing. Moving the pickup back (i.e. 24 frets) or using the bridge pickup will make you get that harmonic overtone instead from the open strings.

Other than that, fret access depends entirely on the body shape. You can have a 22-fret guitar with a brilliant cutaway, but you could also have a 24-fret guitar with a cutaway at the 17th fret...


I've heard both sides of the "pickup under the harmonic" argument, and I THINK I'm agreeing with the above post. The location of a 24th fret would tend to to be a vibration null for the open strings. That would tell me that it MIGHT be slightly bad to have a pick-up located at the 24th fret position. I've seen some 24-fret fans argue that with 21 or 22 frets, the neck pick-up tends to end up at where a 24th fret would have been, which isn't good. But on the other hand, there are plenty of 22-fret guitars with great tone from the neck pick-up, so it must not be that much of an issue....

One other argument that 22-fret fans make is that, all else being equal, the neck of a 22-fret guitar will be a tad stiffer, leading to better sustain. But this also seems like a "lost in the noise" difference.
#16
One thing I noticed when I got my first 24 fret guitar I thought to myself, "What I can play up here I can play down there completely."

Ever try it?
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#17
Quote by rschleicher
The location of a 24th fret would tend to to be a vibration null for the open strings. That would tell me that it MIGHT be slightly bad to have a pick-up located at the 24th fret position. I've seen some 24-fret fans argue that with 21 or 22 frets, the neck pick-up tends to end up at where a 24th fret would have been, which isn't good. But on the other hand, there are plenty of 22-fret guitars with great tone from the neck pick-up, so it must not be that much of an issue....

It's not like the pickup is picking up vibration from one balls-on exact location . It could be centered exactly at the 24th fret location and still pick up vibration. And besides, when you fret a string it's vibrating length is altered so it's nodes have changed location as well. I think that popular statement stemmed from people over analyzing a theoretical situation that doesn't even exist in the real world.
One other argument that 22-fret fans make is that, all else being equal, the neck of a 22-fret guitar will be a tad stiffer, leading to better sustain.

A guitar of a scale length (25.5" for example) will always be that scale length regardless of the number of frets. In other words, the neck doesn't change length: you're just extending 2 extra frets off the end.
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#18
Not something I care too much about. I have a 24 fret guitar, but it having 24 frets wasn't a determining factor when I purchased it. It's nice once in a while to go up there, but honestly I couldn't remember the last time I did. Sure, some may need the 24th fret, but I think for the most of us, it's an occasional luxury.
#19
i enjoy having that 3rd octave. i really do use those higher frets. just a preference thing
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#20
Totally off topic, but everytime I read your signature Tro I think it says "I <3 WEED"
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
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[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#21
thanks for all the answers. i'm not planning on buying anything in the coming months or so (i'm kinda broke ) but this answered some things I was wondering about!
#22
Well, ive got 22 frets on mine and never felt like i needed more. Could always do a bend if i really wanted those last couple of notes
#23
Quote by Blompcube
having more frets usually means the neck pickup is a little brighter as it is often closer to the bridge -

This is a very good point. My new Rickenbacker has 24 frets and, yeah, that neck pickup is brighter than on other guitars of mine. I know other factors are involved, but I can see where the 24 frets do come into play.
#24
I personally prefer solos done in the lower regions. Up around and past No 22 it can get pretty piercing. It's also a place some people hang because it's physically easier to navigate as the frets are so close together very little movement is required to change or span notes. A lot of new or beginner soloists seems to think it's cool to play up way up there. Most of my favourite guitarists rarely go there if ever.
Moving on.....
#25
Besides what others have said above, the main thing I notice between 22 & 24 fret models is the profile of the necks. Now I can't speak for all necks, but of any/all that I've played, I've seen the 24+ fret models have thinner necks. The 22- fret models have all had thicker necks.

And that's why I think you see shredders gravitate toward 24+ fret guitars. They're typically after a thinner neck for speed. And they'd also be the ones most likely to want/need those extra frets. Because, while it may be theoretically true that you can play the same phrase elsewhere on the neck, it makes a huge difference when you actually try and do it...

So that's my take on it. If you're after a 24 fret, but thick/fat neck, you'll be hard pressed to find it. At least compared to finding the same guitar with a thinner neck...

And similarly, if you're after a 19 or 21 fret model it's less likely you're going to find a super thin shredder neck.

YMMV...
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#26
@ Richard, would it not make more sense that because those shredders go up to the 24th fret the manufactures make them with thinner and faster necks? Instead of the other way around??

Ofcourse it's still a thing to consider when searching for a new guitar! I remember feeling a different neck for the first time. It felt so much better then the neck of my own guitar (which i got from my brother when he stopped playing). Never thought before that a neck would make that much of a difference.

God i hate being broke so I can't get a thinner neck guitar .
#27
Quote by Flux'D
Totally off topic, but everytime I read your signature Tro I think it says "I <3 WEED"



lol, its a clever little thing cause writing it in tweed colors makes it blend that way. kills 2 birds with 1 discrete stone :p
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The only real answer to the SG vs Les Paul debate is to get a Flying V and laugh at all the suckers who don't have one.


Quote by Blompcube

if you embrace inaccurate intonation it can be quite arousing.


I <3 TWEED
#28
Quote by Patrick89
@ Richard, would it not make more sense that because those shredders go up to the 24th fret the manufactures make them with thinner and faster necks? Instead of the other way around??

Ofcourse it's still a thing to consider when searching for a new guitar! I remember feeling a different neck for the first time. It felt so much better then the neck of my own guitar (which i got from my brother when he stopped playing). Never thought before that a neck would make that much of a difference.

God i hate being broke so I can't get a thinner neck guitar .

However you want to look at it is fine with me. I'm just trying to answer your original question and relating some experience.

More frets = thinner neck most often

Less frets = thicker neck most often
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#29
Quote by engineno9
I listen/play metal and it seems every guitar I'm interested in are already 24 frets, and more often than not have a trem too. The only metal guitar I can think of off the top of my head with 22 frets are the older ibby sabers.


Yeah, me too. Most guitars I would consider getting are 24 fret anyway. There are some 22 metal/shred models about, like most Jackson Rhoads models and Charvel Pro-Mods.

For me, I'll probably stick to 24 (although a So-Cal is very tempting...).

The thing I notice now is that I'm so used to playing my 24 fret Jackson, that it feels off to play less - like if I'm playing around the higher frets on a 22 it'll feel a bit off because I'll look at how many frets are left and think that I'm playing higher than I actually am - because I'm closer to the end of the fretboard than I would be on a 24.

The actual two frets, I hardly use, and yet I like having them there.
#30
It allows you to go to eleven if you ever need that push over the cliff.
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#31
Yeah from the answers you all gave I know think I would prefer 24 frets too. such a shame most explorer shaped guitars and RR's are 22 frets. loved the look of those. (I know about the RR24) :P. but i'll see in the coming year or so if I ever want to go up there anyway :P. Thnx for all the input!
#32
I like having it because some of the stuff I play, I will usually go the octave up, and on a 24 fret guitar, I can raise the bar for the 11th and 12th fret, whereas on a 22 or 21, I would only be able to hit the octave of the 10th and 9th respectively at my maximum.

It's also a personal preference thing. I like 22s, but I prefer 24s. If only I could get a 27 with ridiculously low action...
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#33
Quote by EspTro
i enjoy having that 3rd octave. i really do use those higher frets. just a preference thing


+1. Wouldnt mind trying out a 27 fret ziphos though, or the rg2011 w/ 30 frets


Quote by Flux'D
Totally off topic, but everytime I read your signature Tro I think it says "I <3 WEED"


+1