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#1
So lately ive been thinking it over and it seems more and more so that a head and cab setup is too big for me, like at most i get out playing maybe once every 2 weeks and even then my 6534 and cab i too much to bring so i end up playing through my old spider iii 75 thats speaker is about to blow.

So im debating selling of my amp to buy a nicer 112 tube combo amp that i can later hook up to a 412 for shows.

The tones I really like:

Metallica- death magnetic (hate most of the songs tho )

Alter bridge- rhythym and leads (AB3 atleast)

Sylosis- from the edge of the earth. All tones in that song

Also need a tone thats somewhere between rise against and paramore

Also need a nice warm and fat clean tone.

Would prefer onboard reverb.

And a new value of under 2000$.

Also, no Engls at all, theyre too expensive and hard to find

To sum it up, versatile metal 112 combo ampthats under 2k new. And im in cananda btw


So any suggestions? I have on in my head thats a tad over budget but i want to see if it gets recommended
#2
mesa boogie mark V combo. It is a little over $2000 but you can probably get a used one for under $2000.
My Guitar Rig:
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#3
you could check out the 6505 combo by peavey, although i'm not a fan of peavey those things have so much gain to them. marshall is of course always a standard amongst a lot of bands still today, hard to come across good combos though. for a band like paramore, i'm not positive so don't quote me but theres this company badcat out of the UK that a lot of alternative bands are using these days, they are pretty much marshall clones but they have a more modern tone to them. check out blackstar as well.

for american tone, i like mesa a lot more than peavey, thats metallica tone straight up. you cant get much better than the mark series combo amps, and i think the rectifiers come in combos as well.

i know i threw a lot of names at you but pretty much any amp with a lot of gain will fit one of the tones you listed, its just a matter of you wanting to go either british or american.

to go against all of my suggestions i don't use a single one of those, i use fender, but anyways...

good luck and have fun!

E
#4
Quote by 14xjake
mesa boogie mark V combo. It is a little over $2000 but you can probably get a used one for under $2000.


I thought the mark v was more suited for lead playing though?

I play more rhythyms/intricate riffs, would it be good for that?

And yea I should check out buddah too, but too bad theres no dealers near me
#5
As a warning I'm heavily biased towards Peavey. I'd go with the 6505 Combo like said for it's great OD channel. But if your a stomp-box distortion guy I'd go for the ValveKing. I think it'd be way better to craft your tone around it's beautiful clean channel with a good OD/Dist pedal.
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#6
Quote by SonicTheShreder
As a warning I'm heavily biased towards Peavey. I'd go with the 6505 Combo like said for it's great OD channel. But if your a stomp-box distortion guy I'd go for the ValveKing. I think it'd be way better to craft your tone around it's beautiful clean channel with a good OD/Dist pedal.


I own a 6534+ right now which is a 6505+ with el34 tube that kills the combo any day. Ive had extensive experience with the 112 6505+ and all i can say is that its mediocre at best espwcially considering the price my frind paid for one.

Im looking for something more high end and versatile than a 6505
#7
Not a combo, but the 50 w 5153 is due out any day now. It's small, has all the stuff you want except reverb. I think the head with the 112 cab is around $1400.
#8
Thats true, but also probably very similar to my 6534, which im kind of trying to get away from.

Recorded i thing they sound too "forward" and upfront and dont have much depth or character, as well the distortion sounds good yea but really generic like its there and thats it. If that makes sense at all

Kinda interested by the mark v now though. It might be worth it if it pumps out awesome rhythyms as well as leads
#9
A used Dual Rectifier is my first thought.

Limiting yourself to a combo is going to gimp your options.

Why not just get a 2x12 cab instead?
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#10
Cuz even a decent 2x12 cab is too big (ie mesa recto and orange 2x12s) for my current situation.

Like if I want use out of it on an everyday basis, it has to be a 1x12 amp or a rack modeller. And for now I want to keep my tubes.

What is gonna get me closer to those tones though? A recto or a mark?

Because metallica use VH4s and triaxis, which are mark like.

Sylosis uses marshall jcm 800s i believe, and paramore used rectos for a while so there really is a bit of everything
#11


Near Toronto right? I didn't see anything there anyway except a Fender Red Knob Twin (I hear they get knarly), JVM205 (212 anyway and the disti is ish imo), Laney Pro Tube, Mesa Stiletto Ace combo (212),


What about a used (or scratch n dent) Rivera K-Tre 112
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Rivera-K-TRE-55-112-55W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-481604-i1368506.gc

or a Rockerverb 112
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Orange-Amplifiers-Rockerverb-50C-MK-II-50W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-H67136-i1568766.gc

H&K Switchblade
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Hughes---Kettner-Switchblade-50-1x12-Combo-107220097-i1145740.gc

Egnater Renegade (one of my favs but not sure how heavy it can get)
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Egnater-Renegade-112-65W-1x12-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-105469019-i1447428.gc

I'd be happy with either of those and they should both have more than enough gain and great with cleans but not sure how they are voiced for what you play (as I'm just not familiar). The closest to that stuff that I like is probably Killswitch Engage. Can you relate those band to KSE at all? Less gain, less cookie monster I'm assuming.

GC also has lots of other Riveras and then stuff like the new Line6 DT50, Bogner Alchemist, Vetta, Vypyrs, etc.
#12
I'm sure the Renegade can get heavy enough, hell, even my Rebel can.
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#13
Actually I despise JVMs and The K-tre, played both of them before and really disliked them.

The only amp out of your list that kind of interests me is the rockerverb, but i guess i shouldve mention earlier that right now I think im chasing more of a 6l6 type tone.

And I dont realy listen to much kill switch. Id say of the songs I know, maybe a tad less gain and an overal tighter distortion. Amd deff not as buzzy as remeber off the top of my head. But although I want a sound thats controlled and reasonably tight, I also want it to sound huge. And I prefer lower mid voicings.

I really like the clean tones of my curse and this is absolution.

And if I havent made it obvious yet, right now Im kind of leaning towards a mark V the most right now, have yet to try one but they seem to what Im after.

Prolly gonna go with my buddy next week to demo the amps. We can easily try the rockerverbs, all mesas most bogners, and a few other assorted amps probably. Itll probably just be the roadster and mark V that i spend time on (and yes I know the roadster is a 212 combo, which sucks, but im pretty sure its not tight enough for me
#14
Also another thing I forgot, the amp needsto keep up with quick riffs in a way that it doesnt get really scratchy, like its hard to describe but like some riffs my amp will put out but it sounds scratchy and almost like some notes are muffled, I guess im asking for an amp that tracks well with fatser riffs?
#15
I'd look hard at the new 5150 3 mini 50w head and a 1x12 (v30 speaker) cab! Guessing you'll probably go for a mark V combo tho
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#16
Quote by Seanthesheep
I thought the mark v was more suited for lead playing though?


wut?

Yeah, the lead channel sounds great... But it has 2 other channels.

The clean channel (rhythm 1) sounds quite good. Maybe not as good as a lone star, but pretty good.

The MKV can be a very tight amp. I have a mark IV, and depending how you set it up, it can be very tight and articulate, or it can be spongy with some nice sag. I used to jam with a guy that had the MKV, and it's just like the IV, only with more features and a better sounding rhythm channel. The downside is that it has SO many options that it can be overwhelming. You can tweak it until the end of time.
Quote by tubetime86
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#17
Quote by jpatan
wut?

Yeah, the lead channel sounds great... But it has 2 other channels.

The clean channel (rhythm 1) sounds quite good. Maybe not as good as a lone star, but pretty good.

The MKV can be a very tight amp. I have a mark IV, and depending how you set it up, it can be very tight and articulate, or it can be spongy with some nice sag. I used to jam with a guy that had the MKV, and it's just like the IV, only with more features and a better sounding rhythm channel. The downside is that it has SO many options that it can be overwhelming. You can tweak it until the end of time.



Yea what i originally meant is that channel 3 was more suited for lead playing than anything else, but it seems now that the extreme mode and IIC+ are right up my alley.

Did your firend have the combo? Because theres isnt too much on the combos
#18
Quote by Seanthesheep
Yea what i originally meant is that channel 3 was more suited for lead playing than anything else, but it seems now that the extreme mode and IIC+ are right up my alley.


....well yeah, the lead channel is made for lead tones.... the rhythm channels are for rhythm tones. Not exactly sure what you're asking.

Quote by Seanthesheep
Did your firend have the combo? Because theres isnt too much on the combos


No, it was head + cab. But the difference in tone is minimal.
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
#19
Quote by jpatan
....well yeah, the lead channel is made for lead tones.... the rhythm channels are for rhythm tones. Not exactly sure what you're asking.

You can't prove that.
#20
Quote by jpatan
....well yeah, the lead channel is made for lead tones.... the rhythm channels are for rhythm tones. Not exactly sure what you're asking.


No, it was head + cab. But the difference in tone is minimal.


Wow. Never wouldve guessed.

But i mean that I play metal. Meaning I need a good metal rhythym and lead tone.

To me the rhythym tone is more important but can channel 3 do a good metal rhythym tone is my point.

And yea I really have to play this amp soon, GAS is building
#21
Splawn makes the Street Rod. to be honest i haven't tried one, but i own the pro mod and nitro, and have played a quickrod (which the street rod is a 40w version) to have more than enough confidence in it.

IIRC its basically a Quickrod with only 40 watts and one 12" speaker. still have the three gears and OD1/OD2. $1800
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#23
Quote by Seanthesheep
Wow. Never wouldve guessed.

But i mean that I play metal. Meaning I need a good metal rhythym and lead tone.

To me the rhythym tone is more important but can channel 3 do a good metal rhythym tone is my point.

And yea I really have to play this amp soon, GAS is building


Why do you need the rhythm tone to be on channel 3? What I'm saying is you set rhythm 2 for your metal rhythm tone... then set the lead channel for your lead tone... you switch between them... You have both on the same amp... It will do both... The amp has 3 channels... why do you want to only use channel 3?

Am I the only one that's confused by this thread?
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
#24
^ Maybe he needs to jump back and forth a lot and doesn't want to switch back and forth. I love Marks and have never played one but maybe that is his issue. Some amps have good lead and rhythm on one channel.


Sean - you mean a Nitro combo?

hmmmmm

I bet Scott would make you one. I think the general form factors are all the same.
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Jan 6, 2012,
#25
Quote by jpatan
Why do you need the rhythm tone to be on channel 3? What I'm saying is you set rhythm 2 for your metal rhythm tone... then set the lead channel for your lead tone... you switch between them... You have both on the same amp... It will do both... The amp has 3 channels... why do you want to only use channel 3?

Am I the only one that's confused by this thread?


how high gain does channel 2 get?

My original plan was to have ch 3 for rhythym and lead, have 1 clean and 2 as a halfway


And yea I know, im starting to get somewhat confused too
#26
Quote by jpatan
Why do you need the rhythm tone to be on channel 3? What I'm saying is you set rhythm 2 for your metal rhythm tone... then set the lead channel for your lead tone... you switch between them... You have both on the same amp... It will do both... The amp has 3 channels... why do you want to only use channel 3?

Am I the only one that's confused by this thread?

Nah, man. TS isn't making sense.
#27
Quote by Seanthesheep
how high gain does channel 2 get?

My original plan was to have ch 3 for rhythym and lead, have 1 clean and 2 as a halfway


And yea I know, im starting to get somewhat confused too


R2 gets enough gain to use it as a lead channel, if you prefer it.

And R1 can get enough gain for your crunchy cleans easily.
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#28
Quote by phoenix_crush
Nah, man. TS isn't making sense.


I agree with this statement

Quote by Raijouta
R2 gets enough gain to use it as a lead channel, if you prefer it.

And R1 can get enough gain for your crunchy cleans easily.


Then wheres the clean channel?


And 311, yea but what speaker would you put in it? Or woul it be 40w too?
#29
Quote by Seanthesheep

And 311, yea but what speaker would you put in it? Or woul it be 40w too?

You could run it at half power (50w) and then use his Small Block speaker (55w) - should pair nicely. If you are really interested though you'd be better off sending him an email.

Worst case is sell the Small Block - wouldn't be a problem at all to sell, and thne get a G12K100 or CL80 or something like that.


See my Edit in up above post
#30
Quote by Seanthesheep
I agree with this statement


Then wheres the clean channel?


And 311, yea but what speaker would you put in it? Or woul it be 40w too?


Ok... there's Rhythm 1. This channel will go from super clean, all the way up to moderate crunch. If you OD it, you can get R1 pretty crunchy.

Then you have Rhythm 2. This channel goes from light crunch all the way up to high gain metal. On the mark IV the gain on this channel is useable pretty much all the way up to 10. An OD will tighten it up a bit, but don't feel like you NEED to boost it.

Then you have the lead channel. Same basic gain structure as R2, but it's (to my ears) voiced slightly different.

R2 and lead channel can be interchanged more or less. You can play leads on R2, or rhythm on the lead channel. It's all up to you how you want to set up the amp.

EDIT: Actually on the mark IV the lead channel has a gain knob, and a drive knob, where R2 only has gain. It allows you to fine tune the sound on the lead channel a bit more. I don't remember if the Mark V is set up the same way, it's been several months since I played one.
Quote by tubetime86
He's obviously pretty young, and I'd guess he's being raised by wolves, or at least humans with the intellectual capacity and compassion of wolves.


You finally made it home, draped in the flag that you fell for.
And so it goes
Last edited by jpatan at Jan 6, 2012,
#31
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
You could run it at half power (50w) and then use his Small Block speaker (55w) - should pair nicely. If you are really interested though you'd be better off sending him an email.

Worst case is sell the Small Block - wouldn't be a problem at all to sell, and thne get a G12K100 or CL80 or something like that.


See my Edit in up above post


yes and yes if not using Scott's speakers.
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Quote by andersondb7
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Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#32
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
You could run it at half power (50w) and then use his Small Block speaker (55w) - should pair nicely. If you are really interested though you'd be better off sending him an email.

Worst case is sell the Small Block - wouldn't be a problem at all to sell, and thne get a G12K100 or CL80 or something like that.


See my Edit in up above post


Ill send him an email tonight then, and hopefully get a rough idea for the price. And then we will see what happens after I try out a mark V next week hopefully
#33
Quote by Seanthesheep
Cuz even a decent 2x12 cab is too big (ie mesa recto and orange 2x12s) for my current situation.


What do you mean by this exactly? The size/weight? A 2x12 combo isn't all that much bigger than a 1x12 combo, and most 1x12 cabs are the same size as a 2x12 simply because they need to be wide enough for a head to sit on top. As for weight. Well, any Mesa 1x12 is still going to be stupidly heavy.

Anyway, the Mark V will definitely do everything you want, but you'll have to spend some time fighting with it to really achieve the tones you're looking for. It's definitely more geared towards lead tones, but if you spend enough time with it you can get some incredibly tight rhythm tones.

Just a couple suggestions. Don't forget about crunch mode. Most people make the mistake of going straight to channel 3 for their heavy rhythm tones, but crunch mode can nail Metallica no problem. Just said the gain from 3:00-max, and have the GEQ set at a mild to moderate V and you'll get tight fast tracking rhythm tones without much fuss.

Channel 3 is a much more difficult beast to master. For tight rhythms I recommend you start in MarkIV mode with the GEQ set to a severe V shape.... Outside two maxed, inside two neutral and center at the bottom. Then adjust everything towards the center to suit your taste.

Mark IIC+ mode I prefer for lead. It's not nearly as aggressive as the MarkIV and I find the top end to be sweeter sounding which really lends itself nicely to solos.

Extreme mode isn't what you expect. It's huge thick and very dynamic, and because of this it's more difficult to get a saturated gain sound out of it which gives off the (false) impression that is has less gain. Treble is very important in this mode.

Beyond that, if you can find a combo with a v30 speaker in it then you're much better off than with a c90. They're somewhat rare, but they do exist. Otherwise a speaker swap wouldn't be a bad idea.
#34
Wieght is never a problem for me, its just size like a mesa 212 is 2.5 to 3 feet wide and just over a foot deep. In this new house, my bedroom furinture doesnt even entirely fit in my room so my 412 is out of the question. I know how big a 112 combo is size wise and i know I can probably make it fit. I know its easy enough to put it somewhere else in the house but im going off to university next year and having an amp I can take back and forth between the student house ill be staying at my families house. Like it just makes alot of sense to get a 112 tube combo I can later hook up to a 412 at gigs.

And btw thanks alot for the settings advice and how to approach the amp. Ive always wondered btw how a 60w speaker would work in a 90w amp. I dont mond the C-90 speaker because my current 4-12 although yes I do prefer V30s
#35
The mark V combo is 23"x18.5"x12", so it's not much smaller than the footprint of my 4x12 recto slant cab @ shy of 30x14". 1x12 tube combos with 5 12ax7 and a couple 6l6 won't be any smaller than that. You could get the head, 1x12 cab and a long speaker wire and have the head somewhere else in your room too
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#36
You should really email Scott at Splawn and see what he can do for you.

Tell him your budget and that you need something compact and I bet he can work with you. Splawn amps are manly, and I hear his customer service is A++.
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#37
^ I could be wrong but I think you still have to order within the parameters of his options. But Customer Service is definitely one of the best.

Mesa has a certain tone going for them. If you want that tone then you won't want a Splawn and visa verse.
#38
I'll throw my hat in with the Mesa boys here. Mark IV or V definitely. I don't know why we are even discussing it. That's what you want. Go try one, then come back and tell us how right we were.

Edit: And take your favourite tubescreamer with you.
Gilchrist custom
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Marshall 18W clone
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Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
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Last edited by Cathbard at Jan 6, 2012,
#39
Quote by Cathbard
I'll throw my hat in with the Mesa boys here. Mark IV or V definitely. I don't know why we are even discussing it. That's what you want. Go try one, then come back and tell us how right we were.

Edit: And take your favourite tubescreamer with you.


but I dont like Tubescreamers

Hopefully I can get out nect week to try it though. The place is about 30 mins away but worth it for sure
#40
Whatever dirt/boost pedal you like. I was using "tubescreamer" generically.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
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