#1
Hi everyone,

I've been thinking what I really need (!) is another 2x12 cab to use with my Laney GH50L and Marshall 18 watt clone. I already have the Laney Lionheart cab which I use with it, but sometimes it's a bit dark (it has those 55hz g12h30s) and it also can be a bit crunchy in a 70s sort of way. I want something that more suits classic rock and 80s rock and metal tones- slightly more conventional rock guitar tone, basically. Greenbacks should work ok for that, right?

Deal-breakers:

- no mdf or particleboard guff. Must be ply (or solid wood, i guess, but normally marshally-type cabs are ply i think).

- either has greenbacks or similar stock or is cheap enough to retrofit them.

- good quality. it's a false economy if i cheap out and it sounds like crap. It doesn't need to be Mills Acoustic quality but I want it to be a "good" cab.

- closed back construction

Not deal-breakers, but would be a bonus:

- option to switch between open-and closed-back construction

- cool colour

- enough wattage to also use with my 100 watt engl

So far I've come across the Traynor IronHorse DHX212 2x12 cab for ~£280/335 euro. It's made in Canada, has two greenbacks already loaded, and has the option to switch between open- and closed-back. Colour's a bit boring, but at least it doesn't look horrible. And it's only 50 watts, but that wouldn't be the end of the world- I rarely crank my Engl anyway, plus I could set it to triode mode if I really cared.

I'm not seeing anything much to beat it on price/value- anything I'm missing? Has anyone actually tried this Traynor cab? The Traynor stuff I have tried has been pretty nice, but I haven't tried this cab.

Oh and I'm in the UK/Northern Ireland so Avatar, Lopoline and the like aren't really options, unfortunately.

----

TL;DR: Are there any better-value closed back 2x12 cabinets available in Europe than the Traynor Iron Horse DHX212 2x12 cab which is £280/335 Euro?

Thanks in advance for your help. and sorry for the length (I did try to keep it short ).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 6, 2012,
#2
Don't think i've seen a greenback cab any cheaper then that dave unless you go used but even then it'd be a struggle i reckon..

Looks a good deal actually would probably hit one of those myself if i wanted some greenbacks!

Also maybe an old school marshall 1936 before the days of mdf with the g12-65s a lot of the 80s bands used those speakesr! Would have to go preowned but it is only a cab after all.. and would suit the engl
Last edited by coolstoryangus at Jan 6, 2012,
#3
Wish I still had enough space for a cab.

My amp choices suck for the next 18 months.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#4
Sucks you can't go Avatar.

I got my 2x12 for 280. And I'm sure you already know that they have open and closed back options.
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#5
Zilla Cabs might have some Ex Demo cabs going for a good price, that's where I got my 2x12 for about £260 loaded with G12H30's.

http://zillacabs.com/ex_demo.php
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#6
^ thanks! I'd considered zilla, but new they were just too much. And they didn't list the ex-demo ones on their site, I didn't want to go to the bother of emailing them to find they only gave £15 off or something daft. But that kind of a saving might be worth emailing them for.

I'll give it some thought, anyway

Quote by coolstoryangus
Don't think i've seen a greenback cab any cheaper then that dave unless you go used but even then it'd be a struggle i reckon..

Looks a good deal actually would probably hit one of those myself if i wanted some greenbacks!

Also maybe an old school marshall 1936 before the days of mdf with the g12-65s a lot of the 80s bands used those speakesr! Would have to go preowned but it is only a cab after all.. and would suit the engl


thanks angus- that's what i was thinking... it has the ring of a good deal, kind of thing.

and yeah i mean i'd ideally prefer new, but i'll take a quick look in case there are any marshalls. teh other problem with going used is, with being in northern ireland, most people probably wouldn't ship a cab to NI, or if they did, it'd cost a lot.



Quote by bubb_tubbs
Wish I still had enough space for a cab.

My amp choices suck for the next 18 months.


that sucks

i'm starting to run out of space too. i'mma have to start stacking them

Quote by Guitarbaddie
Sucks you can't go Avatar.

I got my 2x12 for 280. And I'm sure you already know that they have open and closed back options.


yeah I mean we have cab builders here too, but they're not just as cheap
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#7
I've played one of these before... It's a cheap cab that sounds that sounds like a cheap cab. It was quite papery and thin... I really disliked was how inconsistently the sound spread from it. Horizontally or vertically it was incredibly uneven. It also is going to sound like crap next to your Laney cab.

That said, there is nothing better at that price point. Still, were I in your position I would search for something better on the used marked. Or even swap speakers on the Laney cab.

Regarding speakers... I'm no expert, but I've always associated warm creamy and smooth tones with greenbacks. They'd certainly be suited classic rock, but for 80s and metal they're probably not aggressive enough and I'd be willing to bet they'd get very muddy very quickly.
#8
There's all the usual suspects (Framus 212, Harley Benton G212 Vintage, one of the Orange 212s) that are worth checking out, too.
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#9
Quote by Raijouta
There's all the usual suspects (Framus 212, Harley Benton G212 Vintage, one of the Orange 212s) that are worth checking out, too.

+1

http://www.thomann.de/fi/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm

That bad boy right there. (I hope I didn't just sound like the The Tone King )

Seriously, thats one hell of a beast. I've had it for nearly 2 years now. Once the speakers are driven in, its just sex.

If you didn't bother clicking the link, specs:
Harley Benton G212 Vintage
-Celestion V30
-closed back
-about 200e
-ships everywhere in Europe (not expensive)
-best price/quality ratio ever

Cheers
-Jonathan
Last edited by fc89konkari at Jan 7, 2012,
#10
Harley benton 2x12 vintage cab.
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#11
+1 on the Harley Benton.
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#13
It's a cheap and quite good cab (for the price), and he can sell the V30's and use the money for greenbacks.
Quote by Todd Hart
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#14
while i realize you prefer new gear to used dave, i'm with angus on the used 1936. this way you'd have a 130 watt cab and the 100 watt amp wouldn't be as much of a problem etc if/when you got the chance to let her rip. 65s are nice sounding speakers. with only 2 greenbacks you would probably hit some speaker flubbage (technical term, look it up n00bs) before really hitting the sweet spot of the laney.

on the other hand the valve power would love greenbacks.

or maybe a beat up unloaded orange 212 and source out new warehouseguitarspeakers ET65s. (clones of the 65 watt celestions iirc, had a 412 with them, good stuff).

basically i don't think greenbacks are the best choice for a 212 cab for the laney, for the VP sure, even a 112 would rock for that amp. but if you are going to go 212 for the laney the 65s would be better suited considering what you want to play.

imo.

#15
Wouldn't you risk blowing the greenback speakers when using a 100w head since they are 25 Watts each?
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#16
That's why you buy bigger greenbacks.

Celestion isn't the only company out there.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#17
How much do Matamp's cost these days? I know you can get your choice of speakers and construction and things... They used to be pretty much the same price as Orange but that may have changed. It's the closest service to avatar we have over here I believe (if somebody knows somewhere better I'm all ears! ) I saw a 2x12 go for ~£150 on evilbay a few months ago.


Regarding the speakers: I think a greenback (or clone) is definitely a good choice. I am a massive have of the 65's however I think you'll find them a little dark and "lacking balls" I know they were used in '80s metal cabinets, but IMO they sounded like shit in that situation and there's a reason people swapped them back then.

Regarding other speakers on the market; how about an eminence Tonker? I believe it's a clone of an old Fane design but I find it works really well for gainy-british sounding amps. They're really clear and high wattage too so should work well with the ENGL. Of course this is a secondary consideration.

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#18
has anyone tried roadkill cabs? they seem pretty cheap and are made in britain, and have a choice of eminence governor or private jack speakers. far as i'm aware the private jack is eminence's greenback, but someone on another forum said it sounded nothing like a greenback, so I dunno.

^ thanks lewis

i think matamp would probably be pushing the £400 mark. Zilla would also be an option (you asked for others like matamp), as would martamp/mjw, english valve amps/EVA and roadkilll (don't know anything about them- i haven't tried the others but i've heard good things). there's also tubetown in germany (though with the reasonably strong euro they're a lot less attractive than they used to be).

that's also interesting that you think the g12-65s would sound like crap, i've heard a couple of people now saying they'd be perfect, but i trust your ears as well. if they're too dark then that's not what i want as i think i already have that covered.

haven't tried a tonker... not sure if i want a fane design or not.

i'm starting to really get confused now.

Quote by icronic
I've played one of these before... It's a cheap cab that sounds that sounds like a cheap cab. It was quite papery and thin... I really disliked was how inconsistently the sound spread from it. Horizontally or vertically it was incredibly uneven. It also is going to sound like crap next to your Laney cab.

That said, there is nothing better at that price point. Still, were I in your position I would search for something better on the used marked. Or even swap speakers on the Laney cab.

Regarding speakers... I'm no expert, but I've always associated warm creamy and smooth tones with greenbacks. They'd certainly be suited classic rock, but for 80s and metal they're probably not aggressive enough and I'd be willing to bet they'd get very muddy very quickly.


ah right. well if the traynor's crap (you mean the traynor one, right?) then that's put something of a spanner in the works. i think it uses a weird baffle design, so if it sounds like crap projection-wise that might explain it.

Still, much better to find out now rather than after I've bought it. thanks!

Quote by coolstoryangus
I think Dave already has a cab with v30s iirc


yeah, i should have mentioned that in the opening post, sorry everyone . i got about 5 recommendations on musicradar for teh harley benton one, too.

Quote by gregs1020
while i realize you prefer new gear to used dave, i'm with angus on the used 1936. this way you'd have a 130 watt cab and the 100 watt amp wouldn't be as much of a problem etc if/when you got the chance to let her rip. 65s are nice sounding speakers. with only 2 greenbacks you would probably hit some speaker flubbage (technical term, look it up n00bs) before really hitting the sweet spot of the laney.

on the other hand the valve power would love greenbacks.

or maybe a beat up unloaded orange 212 and source out new warehouseguitarspeakers ET65s. (clones of the 65 watt celestions iirc, had a 412 with them, good stuff).

basically i don't think greenbacks are the best choice for a 212 cab for the laney, for the VP sure, even a 112 would rock for that amp. but if you are going to go 212 for the laney the 65s would be better suited considering what you want to play.

imo.



thanks greg. yeah icbm on musicradar (who's a bit of a badass) said g1265s would be cool, that they're almost like a higher-wattage greenback. so they might be worth considering.

that being said, as you rightly said, bona fide greenbacks might be better for the 18 watter. though i need to get it fixed, and if i don't get round to that (or the fix isn't financially viable), it probably makes more sense to get speakers more aimed at the laney.

that being said i'm not exactly anywhere near cranking the laney the vast majority of the time, so i would imagine the GBs would probably be fine.

Quote by constructbot
Wouldn't you risk blowing the greenback speakers when using a 100w head since they are 25 Watts each?


oh yeah, sure. if i did use it with teh engl i'd have it at low volumes.

Quote by bubb_tubbs
That's why you buy bigger greenbacks.

Celestion isn't the only company out there.


yep, i realise that, but to keep the prices down my options are reasonably limited- pretty much celestion, eminence or tayden, i think.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 7, 2012,
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc

that sucks

i'm starting to run out of space too. i'mma have to start stacking them






Though I never got the pic with all of my mapz and cabz stuck on top of each other. Just those. Stacking mapz=better tone.
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#20
Quote by Dave_Mc
has anyone tried roadkill amps? they seem pretty cheap and are made in britain, and have a choice of eminence governor or private jack speakers. far as i'm aware the private jack is eminence's greenback, but someone on another forum said it sounded nothing like a greenback, so I dunno.

^ thanks lewis

i think matamp would probably be pushing the £400 mark. Zilla would also be an option (you asked for others like matamp), as would martamp/mjw, english valve amps/EVA and roadkilll (don't know anything about them- i haven't tried the others but i've heard good things). there's also tubetown in germany (though with the reasonably strong euro they're a lot less attractive than they used to be).

that's also interesting that you think the g12-65s would sound like crap, i've heard a couple of people now saying they'd be perfect, but i trust your ears as well. if they're too dark then that's not what i want as i think i already have that covered.

haven't tried a tonker... not sure if i want a fane design or not.

i'm starting to really get confused now.

The large dustcap on the G12-65 reduces the top end response, dark might not be the best way to describe it but you'll certainly notice less "sparkle" compared to the H30s. This also has the effect of "smoothing" out the high end of the OD tone. As far as I'm concerned for '80s metal you want a bit of an "in your face" crunchiness and it kind of takes away from that. Back in the '80s lots of players sold their stock 65s too, it's only in the past 5-10years that people have actually began to use them in great number.

EDIT: Compared to an H you'll also notice that the 65 is a lot less tight in the low end.

If you're interested in a dumble to play politician you'll be in heaven though. They're one of my favourite speakers though, but you could hardly describe me as an "80s metal player"


For sale: Early 1985 Ibanez AH10 (Allan Holdsworth signature model) PM for details
Last edited by power freak at Jan 7, 2012,
#21
Yeah my suggestion for an older used 1936 was due to the whole "higher wattage" greenback thing i've heard mentioned,,,
http://www.chandlerguitars.co.uk/view_item.php?ItemID=2975 i think this one will have the g12-65s probs worth checking if you're tempted though..
Also dare i say its a bit pricey i saw a mint one on ebay for 50 quid cheaper a while back.. this is a dealer though and i know you'd probably prefer that to a private guy on ebay
Last edited by coolstoryangus at Jan 7, 2012,
#22
^ well, i don't really care if it were in decent nick. but i mean by the time i paid postage on that (which could easily be £40) i'd be close enough to the price of a zilla or something like that where i could get it exactly the way i want, in an awesome colour, etc. etc. etc.

I mean, I'm not totally against going used... but there has to be a good reason for doing so (i.e. saving a ton). If i'm not saving all that much, I'm going to go new every time, kind of thing.



^^ yep i agree with you regarding the crunchiness for 80s metal. and that more immediate/crunchy/rawer type of character probably works better for classic rock, too.

that being said teh g12h30s are pretty crunchy, and do sound good. I might be just spending money for the sake of it. But to my ears they don't just sound 100% "right". They do sound very, very good (excellent for certain things), and are a lot better (for that crunchier type of tone) than the v30s i also have. maybe it's user error, but i don't quite get that feeling you get when, having used teh "wrong" kit for ages, you plug into the "right" kit and it instantly sounds "right", without even having to tweak the thing. That "lightbulb" kind of reaction, where you instantly realise what you were doing wrong all those years.

and yeah, no dumble tones. not that i don't like robben ford, just that's not what i'm after with this cab. plus i can't troll tgp with a clear conscience if i'm trying to sound like robben ford as well.

^^^ haha awesome, matt.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 7, 2012,
#23
Quote by fc89konkari
+1

http://www.thomann.de/fi/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm

That bad boy right there. (I hope I didn't just sound like the The Tone King )

Seriously, thats one hell of a beast. I've had it for nearly 2 years now. Once the speakers are driven in, its just sex.

If you didn't bother clicking the link, specs:
Harley Benton G212 Vintage
-Celestion V30
-closed back
-about 200e
-ships everywhere in Europe (not expensive)
-best price/quality ratio ever

Cheers
-Jonathan

Agreed. Had one for a while, superb cab.
#25
^ oh man... you haven't seen me trying to do diy, i'm guessing. I still haven't successfully got teh back off my valve junior cab, if that tells you anything

I'm gonna say building my own is a non-starter, i think

Quote by kyle62
Agreed. Had one for a while, superb cab.


yeah... just i already have v30s. and if i buy it to swap the speakers (even if i sell teh stock ones) i probably wouldn't be too much cheaper than those roadkill ones. which i can get in cool colours
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
i don't think they ship to europe (and if they did it'd probably cost a fair whack... not to mention i'd probably be hit for VAT and customs)

and no worries, any suggestions (even if i discount them) give me more to think about.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?