#1
So my band was booked to open for a band from Cleveland. They toured last summer on their own dollar, and my band opened for them then. We were asked to open for them again last weekend for this tour (also on their own dollar) and the show was booked months in advance. Tickets were affordable for almost everyone, only $10. There were a few other bands also on the bill, and all of our bands, including the headliner, got our gear into the building and then we were told we had to be postponed because the booking agent for the Rave forgot to inform the staff of our show, so the stage/room wasn't ready and didn't have a light or sound guy. In return, we were told we would be added to any show we want, but I'm skeptical of this. I have a feeling they're either gonna stick us on a side stage the same night, or charge us a ton of money to play the ballroom/charge $25 a ticket plus $12 ticket fees. Should I play hardball and hold out for a lot of benefits i.e. cheap tickets for our fans, opening for a band in the ballroom, free tickets, etc.?
#2
My band has had talks with playing at the Rave in Milwaukee for that side stage stuff, never did it yet though. I would suggest making the situation clear and trying to get what you deserve - if they said you could be added to any show, figure out what the terms are on that with them, if they understand the situation was a pain for you they probably will be able to work something out with you.

Question, was the first time you opened for these guys at the Rave also? did you play the mainstage with them then? I've been curious how a band gets that as oppose to sidestage, since thats fairly easy to do, just as long as you can shell out the cash
#3
Hmmm....

Were tickets available in advance? If so, who was collecting the ticket money? If not, you have fans that will be inconvenienced, but at least not ripped off.

What was the club offering, aside from a room to play in? Were they paying you and then collecting the ticket money? How was that working?

Did you have anything in writing? If so (or even if not), what were the understood or agreed upon expectations for the club and for the band?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#4
I'm gonna try and explain this as best as i can :p

The headlining band called the Rave and booked the Vibe Room. That was also where we played last time. It holds about 500 people opposite the bar. They opted to print their own tickets for advance sale, charge a lower price and collect all the money before the show. It was cheaper for us, fans, and the main band because otherwise we would have had to go through eTix. All us openers got a cut of the cash, the rest went to the headlining band's expenses (rental, gas, hotel, etc.) as they paid for it all out of pocket and the net profit was theirs. I imagine the other band had paperwork for this. Plus, they basically have control over most of this seeing as they booked the room. That was the fiscal part of it.

Now, everything was going smoothly on our part, it's just that the Rave didn't get the room ready and as a result had to postpone the show. I got an email saying we would be added to any show we want, but I want to make sure we don't get stuck with the charges of tickets or renting the stage and I also want to make sure we are actually on the main stage and not cast aside to the bar.

The thing about our show was that at $10 a ticket (with us being a bunch of high school/college kids) it was affordable for almost everyone. If we get added to a ballroom or Rave stage show, tickets are going to be at least $25 a piece plus $12 online fees. If we play either of those stages, I want tickets to be the same as our other show, $10, but I can't see them doing that. Is that too much to demand? I can't see them agreeing to that.

I hope I didn't repeat myself too much.
#5
Knowing the Rave, $10 for them seems a bit low, but who knows i guess... i mostly say that seeing that for sidestage shows they sell you a bunch of tickets for half price (coming out to around $400 worth...) and you sell those at whatever price you deem fit, which changes per show i guess... maybe $20 each to break even, something like that.

Not sure if they'd be cool with a $10 ticket though, seems a little steep for the Rave.
#6
Quote by booby50
I'm gonna try and explain this as best as i can :p

The headlining band called the Rave and booked the Vibe Room. That was also where we played last time. It holds about 500 people opposite the bar. They opted to print their own tickets for advance sale, charge a lower price and collect all the money before the show. It was cheaper for us, fans, and the main band because otherwise we would have had to go through eTix. All us openers got a cut of the cash, the rest went to the headlining band's expenses (rental, gas, hotel, etc.) as they paid for it all out of pocket and the net profit was theirs. I imagine the other band had paperwork for this. Plus, they basically have control over most of this seeing as they booked the room. That was the fiscal part of it.


So, the good news for you is that your band is just basically an adjunct to the show (as openers generally are) and there actually was no agreement between you and the bar as much as there was an agreement between you and the headlining band.

If my interpretation is correct there, the headlining band has the financial muck to wade through, but not you. You, basically, just have the inconvenience of having to tell your friends and family that the show is going to be postponed with no notice. Sucks, but there really isn't anything for you to take recourse on - at least not sensibly.

Quote by booby50
Now, everything was going smoothly on our part, it's just that the Rave didn't get the room ready and as a result had to postpone the show.


So the headliners will have to deal with the people who bought advance tickets, etc. They will have to deal with any cancellation charges with their hotel, etc.

No mention of whether the venue was going to pay the band at all, or have them just rely on ticket sales, but if there was an agreement to pay the band, then the venue would have to honour that agreement nonetheless.

Quote by booby50

I got an email saying we would be added to any show we want, but I want to make sure we don't get stuck with the charges of tickets or renting the stage and I also want to make sure we are actually on the main stage and not cast aside to the bar.

The thing about our show was that at $10 a ticket (with us being a bunch of high school/college kids) it was affordable for almost everyone. If we get added to a ballroom or Rave stage show, tickets are going to be at least $25 a piece plus $12 online fees. If we play either of those stages, I want tickets to be the same as our other show, $10, but I can't see them doing that. Is that too much to demand? I can't see them agreeing to that.

I hope I didn't repeat myself too much.


So there is a main stage, a ballroom, and a Rave stage, and you want the main stage?

So, ask for a main stage show? Or did I miss something?

See if they put you in the ballroom or Rave stage and have the headlining band have to sell their tickets at $25+fees, they can't, in good conscience, allow you guys to sell them for $10. And when you show up to the gig and the headlining band finds out that you guys were "practically giving away their tickets", it's going to be hard to win them over as friends, if you know what I mean.

Ask for the main stage, which is what you had - at $10/tix, which is what you had - and open for a band of your choosing, which is what you had. It would be bad business for them to say, "no, even though we gave you this option, we're going to put you in the ballroom with so-and-so on a Tuesday night, and your tickets are going to be really expensive." That's not any show you want. But more importantly, if they know that, at $10/ticket that you'll bring 40 people out, that's 40 people buying drinks and making the place money. If they know that, at $25+fees/ticket that you'll be lucky to bring anyone out aside from your moms who no longer drink, they make nothing.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#7
Quote by axemanchris
So, the good news for you is that your band is just basically an adjunct to the show (as openers generally are) and there actually was no agreement between you and the bar as much as there was an agreement between you and the headlining band.

If my interpretation is correct there, the headlining band has the financial muck to wade through, but not you. You, basically, just have the inconvenience of having to tell your friends and family that the show is going to be postponed with no notice. Sucks, but there really isn't anything for you to take recourse on - at least not sensibly.


So the headliners will have to deal with the people who bought advance tickets, etc. They will have to deal with any cancellation charges with their hotel, etc.

No mention of whether the venue was going to pay the band at all, or have them just rely on ticket sales, but if there was an agreement to pay the band, then the venue would have to honour that agreement nonetheless.


So there is a main stage, a ballroom, and a Rave stage, and you want the main stage?

So, ask for a main stage show? Or did I miss something?

See if they put you in the ballroom or Rave stage and have the headlining band have to sell their tickets at $25+fees, they can't, in good conscience, allow you guys to sell them for $10. And when you show up to the gig and the headlining band finds out that you guys were "practically giving away their tickets", it's going to be hard to win them over as friends, if you know what I mean.

Ask for the main stage, which is what you had - at $10/tix, which is what you had - and open for a band of your choosing, which is what you had. It would be bad business for them to say, "no, even though we gave you this option, we're going to put you in the ballroom with so-and-so on a Tuesday night, and your tickets are going to be really expensive." That's not any show you want. But more importantly, if they know that, at $10/ticket that you'll bring 40 people out, that's 40 people buying drinks and making the place money. If they know that, at $25+fees/ticket that you'll be lucky to bring anyone out aside from your moms who no longer drink, they make nothing.

CT


I should clarify. The ballroom is the main stage. 3500 people. The Rave stage holds 1200, and three other side stages that hold from 500-800 people. I totally understand the headlining band being pissed about cheap tickets though, but shouldn't they take that up with the Rave? Also, your point about bringing 40 people as opposed to five is very valid. I've called the Rave booker, but he is impossible to get a hold of, and he hasn't called back or responded to my mesage. I'm going to spam his phone :p
#8
Okay, I think I'm getting this. You were originally offered to open for a band in a 500-person venue selling for $10/ticket.

Will they put you in the ballroom or the Rave stage? No bloody way will they do that. You don't need to worry about that.

What they will do is offer you another show in one of their smaller rooms, probably opening again for another band. Even their smaller rooms are big rooms. 500 is a lot of people. It will look cavernous if you only bring out 75 people. You don't want to chance anything bigger than a room like that, and neither does the club. If they're giving you a choice, pick a decent headlining band to open for that you know will draw a decent crowd - preferably on a Friday or Saturday night.

Quote by booby50
I totally understand the headlining band being pissed about cheap tickets though, but shouldn't they take that up with the Rave?


They might, seeing as it is the Rave who allowed it. But don't think you'll be exempt from their scorn. They'll probably assume that you swung some kind of deal with the club on your own initiative and the club went for it, therefore being pissed at you both. Even if you tell them otherwise, don't count on them believing you.

Protip: Don't piss people off. Headlining bands can f**k over your set. So can sound people. Bartenders and wait-staff can massage "public opinion" in the room. Bookers and managers can give you a bad name and reputation with a couple of simple phone calls. The people who open for you (later on) will be the same people waiting for you at the bottom when they've pulled the rug out from underneath you.

The music industry is small, insular, and exceptionally competitive.

Sound people play in bands. That bass player whose patch cables and tuner you swiped when you played together with his band last month is going to be doing sound for you at your next gig.

Label people know club owners (and vice-versa). You know that demo you sent in, where your bio said that you sold out Club X? Well, the guy called his friend up at Club X...

Band people also run studios you'll want to record in. You know that bass player whose stuff you ripped off? Well, the drummer in his band runs the studio. That's why you got a sh!tty demo and ran over-time and over-budget.

The guy who worked at the music store six months ago (who you've been bad-mouthing for the last six months because of a second-rate set-up job) is a friend of a guy who owns the new club, and just got the job as the talent-buyer. That's why you don't stand a hope in hell of ever playing there unless it is on a "new music night" on a Tuesday... and they'll make sure you're on last... say, 1:00 am or so.

His brother played with Slipknot and knows the manager for Avenged Sevenfold and the person who produced the last two Puddle of Mudd albums. He could have gotten you connected if you weren't such a prick to his brother behind his back.

The geeky kid who played keyboards for that band you and your band-mates always mocked?... he will wind up being the A+R rep at Warner that you send your demo to in five years.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.