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#1
Hi, I'm considering the purchase of one of these three amps. I will be running them through a single Vintage 30 in an open backed cab. I need the volume for gigging.


I'm loving the tone of the Jet City, but I am concerned about volume. The Windsor also sounds cool, I'm torn between that and the Jet City. I included the Valveking because everybody recommends them, personally I don't think they're my thing, but hey, correct me if I'm wrong.

I play basically everything under the banner of rock. From AC/DC to Iron Maiden to Megadeth to Free. I'm not interested in a super heavy sound, because whilst I love Megadeth, everybody who tries to emulate them just uses heaps to much gain. I'm also a massive fan of Dimebag Darrel, but am not interested in getting his tone.
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#2
The Jet City will be very loud.
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#3
Thing is I already have a 9w valve amp which is ****ing loud. But it can't quite cope with gigging, will going up to 20w solve my problem?
"We're content, to pitch our tent,
When the glory's evident"
Petra - Beyond Belief.
#4
great thread.
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#5
...
"We're content, to pitch our tent,
When the glory's evident"
Petra - Beyond Belief.
#7
20 watts seems a bit small. I've got no experience with it, but if the 9w is just a bit too small, then the 20w probably be just fine.
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#8
ohh sorry. I too was considering the jet city and the combos of the other two. but I like to dabble in metal so they dont seem like the right choice for you. im sure any of them would work for what you need though.
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#9
I have the windsor and I love it.I bought it used for $225.The previous owner could have modded it,I wouldn't know how to tell if he did.But it is freaking loud and sounds good cranked.If you are trying to play slipknot this amp isn't for you.If you are playing stuff like sabbath,clutch,qotsa this amp is perfect.Do you have a puppy playing drums?I can't even hear myself over my drummer until I turn the volume to 8.
#10
wattage does not equal volume. the difference is more watts will give u greater headroom at higher volumes and can help push more air through the speakers. if i'm correct, the valve king is about 100w, so you'll get greater clean headroom at higher volumes. but the jet city you may be able to get a natural overdrive out of it and get the cranked tube amp tone (if thats wat ur looking for)

if you don't believe the fact that watts don't equal volume, go grab a physics book.
Last edited by andrerist at Jan 11, 2012,
#11
Quote by andrerist
wattage does not equal volume. the difference is more watts will give u greater headroom at higher volumes and can help push more air through the speakers. if i'm correct, the valve king is about 100w, so you'll get greater clean headroom at higher volumes. but the jet city you may be able to get a natural overdrive out of it and get the cranked tube amp tone (if thats wat ur looking for)

if you don't believe the fact that watts don't equal volume, go grab a physics book.

Nah, it DOES mean more volume... to a point.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#12
Quote by andrerist
wattage does not equal volume. the difference is more watts will give u greater headroom at higher volumes and can help push more air through the speakers. if i'm correct, the valve king is about 100w, so you'll get greater clean headroom at higher volumes. but the jet city you may be able to get a natural overdrive out of it and get the cranked tube amp tone (if thats wat ur looking for)

if you don't believe the fact that watts don't equal volume, go grab a physics book.

I disagree,we tried out numerous guitarists and the ones who didn't have atleast 100watt amps could not be heard over the drummer,or the bass player.It got to the point where we would ask them before they even jammed with us what type of amp they had.Our drummer beats the crap out of his drums and we jam volume cranked to the max.If wattage doesn't =volume,how come the few guys who had 50,60,75watt heads could not even be heard?I could see them playing but could not hear them.
#13
100w is twice as loud as 10w in most applications. Go by that.
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#14
stoner rock guru, that doenst make sense. perhaps you just mean that they did not cut through or they did not have presence or defnition. the fact that a 50 watt amp was maing a crpa load of noise was true. it might not be what you were thinking of with ideal sound, but there is no that pig of a volume difference. its science.

you probably wanted whole setup with cab to create a better overall suond and response.
#15
^my point exactly. it may be loud as hell but the right frequencies may not have been cutting through. a prime example of why mids are VERY important for a guitarist. haha
#16
I have my mids turned all the way down.So does the guitarist we eventually settled on.The only time we boost them is for a solo.Our heavy isn't palm mute crunchy crunch heavy it has way more bass.As far as the guitarists that we tried out the only time we could hear what they were doing was when we stopped playing.We might of heard them if they turned the mids and treble up, but thats not the sound we were looking for.They had to match our sound at our volume and they couldn't do it.Scientifically wattage might not make that much of a difference,but from what I saw and heard it makes a difference.We will just agree to disagree.
#18
go for the jca22h, not the jca20h.
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#19
Quote by StonerRockGuru
I have my mids turned all the way down.
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#20
^ This. Turn your mids up, goddammit!
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#21
ughhhh.

the difference between 50 and 100 watts is inaudible as far as volume goes, headroom changes with the 100 watts. most the time you won't play that high anyways, and if you do you are looking for that powertube distortion.

go to a guitar store and play some amps.

dont set your mids at zero. that is if you want to be heard by the audience.
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#22
The difference between the 20w Jet City and the 100W Windsor will be fairly significant. The Jet City will have a lot more trouble cutting through a loud band fire solos, and may get a bit mushy as a result. The Windsor maintains clarity at frankly ridiculous volumes, although it doesn't have a ton of clean headroom due to the design of the preamp.

The JC will be the best sounding of the three, the Windsor is a great rock amp (with a preamp tube change to stop the fizz) but is very much a one-trick-pony. The Valveking needs a lot of tweaking to reach its full potential and isn't exactly stellar.

I recently sold my Windsor for a more versatile amp, but I enjoyed gigging with it a lot...a big, dumb, fun amp that puts a smile on your face!
#23
I don't mean this offensively, OP, but you have no idea how ignorant you sound. If you need at least a 100 watt amp cranked to be heard over your drummer, you have a problem. A 15 watt tube amp be heard over a drummer. Besides, a 100 watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. The difference you heard between a 50, 75 and 100 is VERY negligible volume wise.

Then you said you have your mids all the way down. Well, there's your problem. The guitar is a midrange instrument. If you cut your mids, you won't be heard in a live situation. That's just how it works.

It's like playing a bass guitar with no bass frequency. You just don't do it. It makes no sense.
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#24
Quote by Any7423
Hi, I'm considering the purchase of one of these three amps. I will be running them through a single Vintage 30 in an open backed cab. I need the volume for gigging.


I'm loving the tone of the Jet City, but I am concerned about volume. The Windsor also sounds cool, I'm torn between that and the Jet City. I included the Valveking because everybody recommends them, personally I don't think they're my thing, but hey, correct me if I'm wrong.

I play basically everything under the banner of rock. From AC/DC to Iron Maiden to Megadeth to Free. I'm not interested in a super heavy sound, because whilst I love Megadeth, everybody who tries to emulate them just uses heaps to much gain. I'm also a massive fan of Dimebag Darrel, but am not interested in getting his tone.


you might want to get a VK 112 combo and not worry about the bottom (or use it if the speaker is 16ohm) the VK is pretty versitile and unlike the windsor has 2 seperate channels with seperate EQs. for Megadeth you probably should use an overdrive pedal. i play a lot of hard rock and classic metal and have found that the VK is actually very well suited for this.
#25
Quote by Ayses
WELL THEN



doesn't matter how much you bitch about it. it has nothing to do with volume, its all about the mids. i have a 6watt tube amp and have absolutely no trouble keeping up with a VERY loud drummer and another guitarist.
#26
Quote by Ayses
I don't mean this offensively, OP, but you have no idea how ignorant you sound. If you need at least a 100 watt amp cranked to be heard over your drummer, you have a problem. A 15 watt tube amp be heard over a drummer. Besides, a 100 watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. The difference you heard between a 50, 75 and 100 is VERY negligible volume wise.

Then you said you have your mids all the way down. Well, there's your problem. The guitar is a midrange instrument. If you cut your mids, you won't be heard in a live situation. That's just how it works.

It's like playing a bass guitar with no bass frequency. You just don't do it. It makes no sense.

Lol,I can hear myself perfectly fine with the drummer,bass player,another guitar player and a singer.Where is it written in stone that guitar players HAVE to use thier mids.What I was saying is a 50 or 60 watt head set to how we like our sound could not be heard when even just I was playing let alone everyone else.I didn't know everyone had to set thier amp a certain way to sound a certain way.Hmmmm.As far as hearing yourself over a drummer using a 15watt amp all I can say is what type of drummer are you jamming with?Last time I checked practicing was considered a live situation,I can hear myself fine,the other guys in the band can hear me fine,and my cool neighbors(calling cop wise)can hear me fine about 7 houses down.15watts LOL.
#27
Just so we are clear here,we only jam all the way cranked in practice(nothing miked into pa).When we play a gig and everything is miked up I only turn my volume to 3 or 4.
#28
Quote by Ayses
I don't mean this offensively, OP, but you have no idea how ignorant you sound.

Then you said you have your mids all the way down.

uummmmm...

The OP (Original Poster) is - Any7423

He didn't make any comments like that. As a matter of fact, he said his 9w amp was ****ing loud but is considering a 20w amp for gigging.




= this thread
#29
Quote by Ayses
I don't mean this offensively, OP, but you have no idea how ignorant you sound. If you need at least a 100 watt amp cranked to be heard over your drummer, you have a problem. A 15 watt tube amp be heard over a drummer. Besides, a 100 watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. The difference you heard between a 50, 75 and 100 is VERY negligible volume wise.

Then you said you have your mids all the way down. Well, there's your problem. The guitar is a midrange instrument. If you cut your mids, you won't be heard in a live situation. That's just how it works.

It's like playing a bass guitar with no bass frequency. You just don't do it. It makes no sense.

Yeah, I didn't say that I had my mids all the way down, that was some other dude. Anyway, my amp atm is a Sheldon TrueTone 3 which doesn't actually have Treble, Middle and Bass controls. What it has is a 'compass' control, which is basically an all in 1 tone control. However, whichever way I set this I cannot be heard in a band situation. I'm aware amps can be miked, but I want the peace of mind of being able to handle a gig without miking, also, I'm not gonna mic an amp at band practice, that's just silly.
"We're content, to pitch our tent,
When the glory's evident"
Petra - Beyond Belief.
Last edited by Any7423 at Jan 12, 2012,
#30
Quote by Ayses
I don't mean this offensively, OP, but you have no idea how ignorant you sound. If you need at least a 100 watt amp cranked to be heard over your drummer, you have a problem. A 15 watt tube amp be heard over a drummer. Besides, a 100 watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. The difference you heard between a 50, 75 and 100 is VERY negligible volume wise.

Then you said you have your mids all the way down. Well, there's your problem. The guitar is a midrange instrument. If you cut your mids, you won't be heard in a live situation. That's just how it works.

It's like playing a bass guitar with no bass frequency. You just don't do it. It makes no sense.

Do you jam a purple daisy rock guitar?Lol,I know thats low,but I couldn't help myself.I am officially done with this thread now.Ha ha,just bustin your balls a lil bit.No hard feelings.
#31
Quote by StonerRockGuru
Lol,I can hear myself perfectly fine with the drummer,bass player,another guitar player and a singer.Where is it written in stone that guitar players HAVE to use thier mids.What I was saying is a 50 or 60 watt head set to how we like our sound could not be heard when even just I was playing let alone everyone else.I didn't know everyone had to set thier amp a certain way to sound a certain way..


I think the audience is the ultimate judge of that. If I went to a show where 50-100w amps were cranked so that they could cut through even though the mids were turned to zero, I'd demand my money back and walk out because it would sound so terrible (and I have done this more than once). Keeping things balanced and at an appropriate volume level (which is part of that balance) is what makes the difference between decent sounding tunes and a muddy mess or trebbly pain in my ears/ass.

It might sound really brootal and cool on stage, but it's going to sound like shit throughout the venue and that's what really matters.
#32
Quote by andrerist
doesn't matter how much you bitch about it. it has nothing to do with volume, its all about the mids. i have a 6watt tube amp and have absolutely no trouble keeping up with a VERY loud drummer and another guitarist.


I agree with this...my Yamaha GA-10 that I modded can overpower my entire band, cut though the entire mix, and it's a 8 inch speaker though a 10 watt SS amp. Course, I have no low end in the mix.


Personally, for those sounds, you'd be good with any of those amps, it's just how much headroom do you want. The Jet City will get you the best tone, but wont have the head room on the cleans, the Valveking will do ok for most of those tones, and it will have good headroom, the Windsor will do ok as well, and prolly have good headroom for the cleans depending on the wattage you get.
#33
Quote by ethan_hanus


The Jet City will get you the best tone, but wont have the head room on the cleans, the Valveking will do ok for most of those tones, and it will have good headroom, the Windsor will do ok as well, and prolly have good headroom for the cleans depending on the wattage you get.


Maybe mine's a bit off, but my JC20 is the quietest, lowest headroom 20w amp I've ever come across. I really don't think you could keep up with a drummer with it, it's not as loud as my 5w bugera.
#34
I can't comment on the JC, but I've previously owned both the Windsor and a Valveking. To this day, even though I love the amp I have now, I wish I wouldn't have traded the Windsor. I really liked the rock tones I was able to get with it. The VK's not bad either, especially if channel switching is a must for you. I didn't dislike the tones I could get from the VK, I just preferred the Windsor.
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#35
Quote by dullsilver_mike
Maybe mine's a bit off, but my JC20 is the quietest, lowest headroom 20w amp I've ever come across. I really don't think you could keep up with a drummer with it, it's not as loud as my 5w bugera.

Are you running them through the same speaker? Speaker efficiency plays a big part.
"We're content, to pitch our tent,
When the glory's evident"
Petra - Beyond Belief.
#36
Quote by Any7423
Are you running them through the same speaker? Speaker efficiency plays a big part.


I play bass through tube amps and don't have money for super high wattage rigs. I am all about speaker efficiency. I might have been exaggerating a little bit before about it being quieter, but my JCA20 is certainly not any louder than my bugera v5 through the same 2*15 cab. It also has less clean headroom, but that's just because it's designed for more preamp gain.
#37
Quote by dullsilver_mike
I play bass through tube amps and don't have money for super high wattage rigs. I am all about speaker efficiency. I might have been exaggerating a little bit before about it being quieter, but my JCA20 is certainly not any louder than my bugera v5 through the same 2*15 cab. It also has less clean headroom, but that's just because it's designed for more preamp gain.

If you play bass, why do you use guitar amps?
"We're content, to pitch our tent,
When the glory's evident"
Petra - Beyond Belief.
#38
Quote by Any7423
If you play bass, why do you use guitar amps?


Why not? I like some power tube breakup, not SS clean bass. 100w guitar amps with fairly even tone stacks work as nice dirty bass amps. I have a 200w bass amp (Traynor YBA-200) and a bugera 1960 as gigging amps and they're both much more awesome than the typical SVT-3pros or GK heads you see everywhere.

I use bass speakers in my cabs though, and because 100w can be quiet for a bass, I'm pretty good at paying attention to the efficiency of a speaker.
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Jan 13, 2012,
#39
Quote by dullsilver_mike
Maybe mine's a bit off, but my JC20 is the quietest, lowest headroom 20w amp I've ever come across. I really don't think you could keep up with a drummer with it, it's not as loud as my 5w bugera.


I've done a medium sized club, unmic'd with it. It was on volume 6, and i was perfectly audible. so i call BS
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#40
Quote by SquierLolz
I've done a medium sized club, unmic'd with it. It was on volume 6, and i was perfectly audible. so i call BS


+1
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