#1
Hi everyone,

This is going to sound like an incredibly stupid question, but hear me out. I sold off most of my music equipment back in the summer before I moved, and over the past month I've built up a decent rig again. The only problem is that it has been extremely hard to track down a decent-priced Mesa 2x12 or 4x12. Due to that fact, I temporarily wired my rig into a *looks down at feet* Marshall AVT275 combo amp.

I knew it would only be a very temporary fix and didn't expect much for tone out of it. I found a local guy selling a Mesa 4x12 for a good price, so as soon as he responds back I will go pick it up.

My question is this: Even using ambiguous wording like "a lot" or "substantial" or "not much," how much of a tonal difference should I expect? I have to flat out crank the treble and presence to 10 across the board to hear anything that barely resembles a tone. Again, this was because I didn't want to settle on ANY other cab aside from a Mesa.
#2
it depends on a lot of things including what guitar you're using, what head you're using, how good your ears are, tone settings, etc. but typically you shouldn't skimp on your cab. It's more about the speakers than it is about the cab, but it all makes a difference and you'd definitely notice a difference in sound between a Mesa 412 and say, a cheap Line 6 cab.
#3
Quote by Amaseng
it depends on a lot of things including what guitar you're using, what head you're using, how good your ears are, tone settings, etc. but typically you shouldn't skimp on your cab. It's more about the speakers than it is about the cab, but it all makes a difference and you'd definitely notice a difference in sound between a Mesa 412 and say, a cheap Line 6 cab.


Guitars = PRS C24, Schecter C7H, C1HFR, etc.
Head = Engl Savage 120
There's also some decent rack gear; digital EQ, effects, etc

It's all decent equipment except for the cab, so it's glaringly obvious that I need to change that haha. I only did it because I didn't want to shell out several hundred dollars on a cheaper cab only to upgrade later on. It was just to tide me over until I found a local Mesa cab (I HATE paying shipping on items like those).


It's also worth noting that if I bypass the cab and "steal" the effect loop return signal and plug it into monitors, it's perfect. I think I'm answering my own question. :|
Last edited by CV334 at Jan 13, 2012,
#4
loads of difference... like... almost as much as changing guitars or amps (and i mean changing from and to completely different styles... not like from a strat to a slightly different strat, more like from a strat to a les paul or from a recto to a marshall).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#5
Quote by Dave_Mc
loads of difference... like... almost as much as changing guitars or amps (and i mean changing from and to completely different styles... not like from a strat to a slightly different strat, more like from a strat to a les paul or from a recto to a marshall).



I'm hoping so! If this guy calls me back, I'll have a nice Mesa 4x12 to pump the signal though. Until then, I might just have to use stereo monitors rather than my klunked cab fix.
#6
Changing cabs makes a BIG BIG difference. Otherwise, you'd see a lot more people using cheapo cabs.
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#8
a bad cab can ruin a good amp.

don't ruin your amp's tone.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Jan 13, 2012,
#9
So, what makes a cab sound different/better? Assuming a cab has the same speakers as another, what characteristics separate a "good" cab from a "bad" one? I don't mean to hijack the thread but it's related. (And I'm considering building one myself... )
#11
Quote by KailM
So, what makes a cab sound different/better? Assuming a cab has the same speakers as another, what characteristics separate a "good" cab from a "bad" one? I don't mean to hijack the thread but it's related. (And I'm considering building one myself... )


List of things...
The wood, and it's thickness.
The baffle used.
Dimensions.


All play a role in it's sound.

The below is straight from Celestion's site:

In Summary

Plywood or real wood construction is preferable
Strong, rigid construction means no buzzes or rattles
Size is not critical
Ensure the speaker is adequately mounted and protected
Avoid air leaks if using sealed box construction.

Thiele-small parameters
Thiele Small parameters are useful for controlling the low frequency response of sealed or ported cabinet systems by changing the cabinet internal volume, and port dimensions. However they are of limited use when designing a guitar speaker cabinet.

Electric guitar speakers do not reproduce 'low' frequencies (the low E string of a lead guitar has a fundamental of 82Hz) and so the frequencies at which Thiele Small parameters have significance are mostly below the operating range.
Also, the parameters are measured at very small signal levels. Guitar speakers become non linear at very low levels compared to other types of speaker, greatly reducing the significance of Thiele Small parameters in actual speaker use. Using the Thiele Small parameters of a typical guitar speaker, you will find that halving or doubling the cabinet size makes minimal difference to the response.
They have no relevance to open back cabinets.
Care should be exercised designing ported (or reflex) cabinets for guitar speakers as the increased cone excursion below the tuning frequency can cause speaker damage.

From here: Celestion cabinet design notes
(http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/features/drdecibel/secret_cabinetdesign.html)
Last edited by BurstBucker Pro at Jan 13, 2012,
#12
Quote by KailM
So, what makes a cab sound different/better?


depends on lots of factors. that is a big question

Quote by KailM
Assuming a cab has the same speakers as another, what characteristics separate a "good" cab from a "bad" one?


once again, it depends many factors, like personal taste. but some common things better cabs have:

-some kind of wood jointing like dovetails or finger joints. cabs that use screws are generally considered 'bad'

-material: while MDF might be fine for a car speaker box, and particle board might be OK for home hifi; but music equipment cabs usually use marine grade Baltic Birch ply (BB). BB is a voidless ply, that is fairly lightweight and doesn't swell up in damp environments. plus it's also tough enough to survive the rough gigging environment. pine was a pretty common wood back in the day as well

-design: a good cab will be designed to optimize speaker

if i were to design a cabinet, i would choose the speaker first and then find the cabinet design that best suits my speaker (there are specs and formulas for this). read some phil starr stuff

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/choosing_speakers_to_drive_your_cabs.html

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/cabinets_for_guitars.html

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/matching_speakers_to_amps.html
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#13
Quote by KailM
So, what makes a cab sound different/better? Assuming a cab has the same speakers as another, what characteristics separate a "good" cab from a "bad" one? I don't mean to hijack the thread but it's related. (And I'm considering building one myself... )


Ask away! It's totally related to the question I asked, and I love to learn. There are a lot of very smart people on this forum.
#14
just to clarify, when i said about teh cabs making loads of difference i meant with different speakers too.

that's not to say the quality of the construction makes no difference, it makes loads of difference too, but obviously changing the speakers as well will make even more difference.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?