#1
I am not sure I really understand...for example, in the key of C major, why would
d minor (d, f, a) resolve to G major ( g, b, d)?
#2
Well, it does and doesn't.

If it were to resolve fully, you'd have D F# A -> G B D. It's just the way it lies. The same as chord II in a major key is always minor and chord VII is always diminished.
#3
The second note in a scales, in this case is d, is also the fifth of the Fifth note. If you made the 5th note in this case G the root the fifth of that is D. its what you would call a secondary dominante. And a fifth chord in a major scale is Major, so you can play the second Chord (D) as major or minor. In the C scale it is d min, in G it is D Major. So following secondary dominates it either can work really.
#5
Quote by Tanglewoodguit
Well, it does and doesn't.

If it were to resolve fully, you'd have D F# A -> G B D. It's just the way it lies. The same as chord II in a major key is always minor and chord VII is always diminished.


That would make the progression a V -> I in G Major.

I spent the last few minutes trying to think of the best way to describe the resolution without ending on a V chord, but I couldn't think of any that work diatonically except for the ii -> V in C.
#6
Quote by dvm25
I am not sure I really understand...for example, in the key of C major, why would
d minor (d, f, a) resolve to G major ( g, b, d)?


If it resolves on G Major, then its not the key of C. Its a V-I in G, and that could very well make sense, because a V or a v can pull to the I and D is the V of G, and the fact that it's Dm as opposed to D isnt that big of an issue cadence wise.

Best,

Sean
#7
Quote by Sean0913
If it resolves on G Major, then its not the key of C. Its a V-I in G, and that could very well make sense, because a V or a v can pull to the I and D is the V of G, and the fact that it's Dm as opposed to D isnt that big of an issue cadence wise.

Best,

Sean


I wanted to say it was a v -> I in G Major, but it didn't seem appropriate as it didn't follow strict diatonics.

So yeah, what Sean said.
#8
Quote by dvm25
I am not sure I really understand...for example, in the key of C major, why would
d minor (d, f, a) resolve to G major ( g, b, d)?
Pretty much any old D chord leads to the almost inescapable conclusion that G major could be, or is likely next.

Dm contains a b7th of G (F), D major contains the 5th (D), Dsus4 contains the root (G), And D6 contains the 3rd (B). They all contain the 5th of G (D).

Given that G major is a quite common key, and the open voices of G and D major are so pleasant sounding, it's entirely possible that D to G has become part of or genetic make up. OK, so that might be a stretch...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jan 14, 2012,
#9
Quote by dvm25
I am not sure I really understand...for example, in the key of C major, why would
d minor (d, f, a) resolve to G major ( g, b, d)?

It's a circle progression, in that it relates to the Circle of 4ths. That diagram is a representation of harmonic stability and compatibility.

There are other circle progressions too, but this is why they work well to the ear.
#10
the reason Dm wants to pull to the G is because the d note in the Dm chord is actually the fifth note in the key of G major so you are hearing essentially a V-I kind of thing. Sounds confusing but its really not. The V-I cadence is CRITICAL to understand. And its not hard at all its just the most complete sounding resolution you can possibly have. and I am not going into different types of V-1 cadences either.
#11
Quote by Life Is Brutal
That would make the progression a V -> I in G Major.


While that's true it actually functions as an applied dominance on V. If you did a Piston analysis D - G - C would look like V/V - V - I. It's strongly rooted in C major, you just added a secondary dominance.

But in the case of ii - V - I it kind of works the same, it's just that ii - V is a weaker movement. To answer the question, ii doesn't really resolve on V, in that it doesn't sound at home when you play V, but it does create a good lead into the V by kind of mimicking a V-I relationship. It's why ii is called a subdominant function (or predominant) along with IV (which shares a lot of the same properties as ii)
#12
Quote by Life Is Brutal
That would make the progression a V -> I in G Major.

I spent the last few minutes trying to think of the best way to describe the resolution without ending on a V chord, but I couldn't think of any that work diatonically except for the ii -> V in C.


That's what I meant

I didn't phrase it very well, it was 4/5am
#14
The third of the two chord acts as a common tone, the root can stay as a common tone, move up or down by half step to an altered fifth or down or up to the root of the next chord, the seventh moves down by half step to the third of the five chord (and leading tone of the key your in, this is the most important part of the ii-V relationship. also if you pedal the root of the five chord it acts as a 4-3 suspension. like if you had dm7/g g7/g the only real important voiceleading you'd have to do is move the C down to B) and the fifth of the ii chord can move down or up by half step for an altered 9th, can stay as a common tone for a natural 9th or can move down by whole step to the root of the V chord (or i guess, up by whole step to the third of the five chord if you want to double it, but some people may tell you not to, either to follow the chorale writing rule of not doubling a leading tone, or to get more color out of that voice by putting in a tension or altered tone). also the ii-V relationship is almost always seventh chords, not triads.

heres the voiceleading explained in the key of C
D--either doesnt move--D moves down by half step--Db, up by half step--Eb or down by fifth--G
F--Stays as an F. not super negotiable if your going to eventually leading it to an E or Eb when you resolve the V chord.
A--can move down by half step to Ab, Up by half step to Bb, up by whole step to B or down by whole step to G
C--Moves to B. C moving to B by half step is what makes the ii-V harmonically functional in the way it is.

By the way, this isn't stuff you HAVE to do, but how, in a normal situation you'd want to move these notes around.
all the best.
(insert self-aggrandizing quote here)
Last edited by tehREALcaptain at Jan 14, 2012,
#15
Quote by tehREALcaptain
the root can move up or down by half step to an altered fifth, also if you pedal the root of the five chord it acts as a 4-3 suspension.

Quite like combining the altered idea with a 9-8 suspension using the 5th in the soprano voice.

Chose a "jazz with a twist style" ending by using a Lydian chord a half step above the root. Kinda leaves it tense and up in the air.
-5---5-3-3
-5---4---4
-5---4---3
-3---3---3
-5-------4
---4-3--
#16
I would agree the above from the captain and mdc.

Try playing the following to hear how the circle of fourths sort of works and secondary dominants play a role in progressions:

B7 - Em7 - A7 - Dm7 - G7 - C - [repeat]

Notice how the A7 points to the G7 the same way the G7 points to the C, and the Em7 points to the A7 the same way the Dm7 points to G7.
#17
Quote by bouttimeijoined
I would agree the above from the captain and mdc.

Try playing the following to hear how the circle of fourths sort of works and secondary dominants play a role in progressions:

B7 - Em7 - A7 - Dm7 - G7 - C - [repeat]

Notice how the A7 points to the G7 the same way the G7 points to the C, and the Em7 points to the A7 the same way the Dm7 points to G7.


Huh. Interesting.

Its because Dominant 7th chords almost always want to resolve up a fourth/down a fifth, so you could just keep going perpetually around the circle.

12'er edit: Your username is so far my favorite of the 12'ers.
Last edited by Life Is Brutal at Jan 14, 2012,