#1
Ok, still a novice but been playing for awhile learning songs and riffs and such for about 6 months on electric guitar now. I want to start learning scales to understand soloing so I'm diving in. First scale I'm learning for no particular reason is the Am.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/members/djlogan33-albums-djlogan33-picture-album-picture25210-all-5-boxes-minor-pentatonic-scale.jpg

Why are there so many boxes and how do you decide which ones you need? I'm learning the first box.

What does the very last image show you (2-3)???

What are the most POPULAR boxes used in music???

Thanks
Yamaha FG700S
LTD EC-1000 MGO
Agile 3k
Laney Cub 15w Head with 2x12 cab
Vox VT 20+
#2
Different boxes have different notes, so each box would have the solo a certain "sound" or "feel"

Popular, that's a subjective question. Just find the boxes you like best and memorize those so you can use them in any key, and then learn to improvise more by adding on notes or something.
#3
2-3 is show you adding two and three boxes together to make the scale run a much bigger portion of the neck. and it breaks out of the box shape.
#5
DON'T LEARN BOXES FFS

learn the notes in the major and minor scales. learn how to construct the major/minor scales, and off that, how to construct chords and create and understand the circle of fifths. from there, learn the concepts of tension and resolution, as well as the concept of accidentals. then, scrap the major and minor scales and replace them with keys. throughout all of this, you should be training your ear for intervals and determining both the details of harmonic analysis as well as the function of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale over any given key or chord.

get cracking, it's gonna take a lot longer than memorizing a box, but it'll also make you not suck.
Quote by Kevätuhri
Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


Quote by UseYourThumb
You win. I'm done here.
#6
Learning the boxes is one thing, your goal should be how to use those boxes if you learn them.

Read the related articles to this article first about the pentatonic scale and the caged sistem then read the article. It should make you understand better how things go.

http://www.guitarlearningtips.org/guitar-technique/the-pentatonic-scale-chart/
#7
Moved to MT to keep the stupid out lol
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#8
Quote by steven seagull
Moved to MT to keep the stupid out lol
A bit late for that, unfortunately.

TS, can you name any of the notes on the fretboard? Once you know the shapes for the A minor pentatonic, you will know the shape for all the pentatonic scales (major and minor pentatonic in any key), you just have to shift the shapes around. If you learn a bit of theory you will understand how this works.
#10
Quote by Hail
DON'T LEARN BOXES FFS

learn the notes in the major and minor scales. learn how to construct the major/minor scales, and off that, how to construct chords and create and understand the circle of fifths. from there, learn the concepts of tension and resolution, as well as the concept of accidentals. then, scrap the major and minor scales and replace them with keys. throughout all of this, you should be training your ear for intervals and determining both the details of harmonic analysis as well as the function of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale over any given key or chord.

get cracking, it's gonna take a lot longer than memorizing a box, but it'll also make you not suck.

This!
Only for most of the people who are going to read this it's too late.
I learned boxes but seldom use something out of the major shape, only when I know which notes are in the key :p.
#11
I disagree with the whole "don't learn boxes" idea. I definitely advocate learning the theory behind them, but they're harmless if you know what you're doing. It's just a quick way of finding something on the fretboard.
Last edited by Jesse Clarkson at Jan 15, 2012,
#12
Quote by Jesse Clarkson
I disagree with the whole "don't learn boxes" idea. I definitely advocate learning the theory behind them, but they're harmless if you know what your doing. It's just a quick way of finding something on the fretboard.

+1

For some reason a lot of people tend to see "knowing notes" and "knowing boxes" as mutually exclusive; they're not.
#13
Here's the thing:

You're knowledge of boxes shouldn't outpace your knowledge of how to use them.

In other words, once you have one box down, rather than learn the rest of them right away - USE it. Learn what the scale is musically.

As you do that, you'll probably find that you're extending your box automatically. eg, a lot of people without having to memorize another box, quickly realize that they can add the 3rd fret of the E and A strings, the ninth thread of the B and e strings, and the eight fret of the G string to their Am pentatonic.

At some point you need to know the pattern all over the neck - but that point *isn't* right away. It's better to learn only one right away so you can put your focus on the actual making of music. People who learn all the boxes before that have a bad habit of just moving from box to box, thinking they're making music, without really having any understanding of what they're playing or breaking out of robotic, muscle-memory driven patterns.
#14
Quote by steven seagull
Moved to MT to keep the stupid out lol

There's stupid here too. S'aaalll good.

We're guitar players, TS. Learn boxes, contrary to what others say about not learning them.

**** me, how ignorant is that? "We're guitar players", lol.
Last edited by mdc at Jan 15, 2012,
#15
Quote by :-D
+1

For some reason a lot of people tend to see "knowing notes" and "knowing boxes" as mutually exclusive; they're not.


there's a reason i said 'scrap the major and minor scales' as well and went on to say that you should know the function of all 12 notes at any given time. unless you want to wrap a box over the entire fretboard. or maybe we could color coat notes over a chord based on how consonant or dissonant they would be on a green to red spectrum

that would be pretty
Quote by Kevätuhri
Hail isn't too edgy for posts, posts are not edgy enough for Hail.


Quote by UseYourThumb
You win. I'm done here.
#16
The best usage of boxes is as a cover when you are trying to infiltrate rebel nuclear facilities.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#17
Naming and knowing the notes on the FB, is to say an A can be played here... and here.. and here.... etc..?
Yamaha FG700S
LTD EC-1000 MGO
Agile 3k
Laney Cub 15w Head with 2x12 cab
Vox VT 20+
#18
Learn the boxes, learn the notes on the fretboard and learn the theory behind the minor pentatonic scale.

/thread
Woffelz

Twitter
Youtube
Tumblr

Ibanez RG2550Z/SRX430
Alesis Core 1
BIAS FX


I'm a student. I've got no time or space for an amp!
#19
box 1 would be the one to learn if you're trying to get teh maximum mileage out of the least effort.

the different boxes (of the same scale) have the same notes, but some licks will work better in some boxes than others (just because of how easily they fall under your fingers).

basically just learn the solo in whole lotta love. that's (mainly) box 1 minor pentatonic/blues scale, and has several of the most-used guitar licks in there.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Boxes aren't even that bad if you just know how to transfer between them.
Boxes can help you to find you're way around the fretboard if you're a beginner

I learned all the boxes first and then started to think of the possibility to slide into the neighbouring notes and go into the next position that way.
After a week I was playing all over the neck and stopped thinking of boxes completely.

Just be aware of that possibility and also learn the names of the notes you are playing and the theory behind the scale that should help you get away from boxes.

But the concept of boxes is still a good concept to fall back on if you lose track and it also helps with visualizing the notes on the fretboard, do not learn the boxes all by themselves but learn them in correlation with each other.

So you learn the "first position" of minor pentatonic on one day and on the next day you just start exploring the notes that are next to it, rather then learning "position two".
You just expand the space you are feeling comfortable improvising in until you know it all over the neck.

I probably contradicted myself several times but I hope it still makes any sense
#21
My suggestion would be:
1) Learn Box 1
2) Learn Box 4
3) Keep practicing boxes 1 and 4 until you notice all the similarities between them and know all the roots, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, and 7ths.
4) Learn where the notes of the minor scale fit in to boxes 1 and 4. This would be the 2nds and the 6ths. I would also recommend paying careful attention to the major and minor 6ths, since both are very common but usually only one is 'right'.
5) Practice switching between box 1 (at fret 5) and 4 (at fret 12) in A minor, starting with the top 2 strings and then the bottom 2 and work your way in.
6) Practice switching between box 1 (at fret 12) and 4 (at fret 7) in E minor, as in (5). Notice how they're switched around.
7) Practice moving both the A minor and E minor up and down and note which key you're in.
8) Congratulations you can now play using the whole fretboard in any key!
#22
Quote by Xiaoxi
The best usage of boxes is as a cover when you are trying to infiltrate rebel nuclear facilities.

The best usage for boxes is Chinese takeaways, or takeouts as you American's called it. No I ain't being racist, I'm half Singaporian so....