#1
In about July this year I'm going to spend a grand on a Peavy 6505 head.

Before this I have been using a Solid State Line6 amp with Zoom multi effects pedal. So I have little clue about standalone pedals.

I'm looking to get that really tight high gain attack sound, I play with a thrash metal band. So I want the tone to be tight and crisp, Not a fuzzy shit mess.

From what I've seen so far a lot of people seem to use Tube Screamers with the gain from the amp, Can anyone tell me why? And should I get one for the tone I want?

Also I've heard that a noise suppressor is a MUST, Does anyone have any recommendations on any?

And will I need any other pedals to get the basic sound I want, I'm not so interested in Reverb and delay etc. At the moment, I'm just looking for the basic sound.


Thank you,

Andbawr
BAWRS
#2
Don't spend a grand on a new one. Get it used for less than $700. 6505's love
tubescreamers and/or BBE sonic maximizers. For noise suppressor the ISP Decimator seems to be the standard.
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Last edited by justlivin at Jan 15, 2012,
#3
May I ask, What exactly does the Tube screamer do for the tone of the amp?
BAWRS
#4
Yes, a noise suppressor is an essential.

But the type of gain all depends on what style of metal. A Tube Screamer acts as a gain boost, so this + amp overdrive, generates a type of sound that sounds like classic 80's metal, but if it's a more modern heavy sound definitely get a distortion pedal, or an amp that has three or more channels.

Also delays are also a key element to a lot metal. And maybe a wah, for good measures.
#6
A noise suppressor is NOT essential, if you're running a proper set of tubes and a nice guitar into it. I haven't needed to use my Decimator with an amp for years, including my 5150. I guess if you use too much gain and have a guitar with super high output pickups that aren't shielded, it could be a problem. You will probably need one if you plan on using a boost, though.

The Tubescreamer (or any kind of boost) is used to drive the amp with the gain set lower, thus giving you a clearer sound. It's not essential, but a lot of guys won't play without one. I find that on a bias modded 5150, it doesn't do a whole lot for the tone I'm going for, but it can add a lot to some amps (the crunch channel of the 5150/6505 included).

Quote by almudjk
Yes, a noise suppressor is an essential.

But the type of gain all depends on what style of metal. A Tube Screamer acts as a gain boost, so this + amp overdrive, generates a type of sound that sounds like classic 80's metal, but if it's a more modern heavy sound definitely get a distortion pedal, or an amp that has three or more channels.

Umm... no.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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#8
You'll need: A tubescreamer, an EQ pedal, & a noise suppressor.

TS9 is the "standard". I love my TS-7 though. Other options include the Way Huge Green Rhino, the MXR GT-OD, and the Digitech Bad Monkey. All will do what you want well, at various price points.

For EQ, I like the Boss GE-7. The MXR 10 Band EQ is better out of the box, but it requires a different type of power supply, so you can't daisy chain it together with most other pedals. That turns me off of them.

For NS, I love the Boss NS-2. It is extremely functional, and has inputs for the FX loop and the input, which is extremely beneficial. Otherwise, you'd need to get 2 separate noise gates, or get the ISP Decimator G String, which costs a stupid amount of money.

The purpose of a Tubescreamer is to simultaneously push your preamp harder, while cutting your bass frequencies. This results in a tighter, more aggresive sound, and is necessary for pretty much any modern metal.
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Last edited by Offworld92 at Jan 15, 2012,
#9
Thank you very much for the replies. The guitar I will be using on this amp is a Schecter Hell Raiser C-1. With active EMGs, I also intend to get that "tighter, more aggresive sound, and is necessary for pretty much any modern metal."

So I'm assuming I will definitely be needing a suppressor.
BAWRS
#10
EMGs are pretty much silent. But the tubescreamer will generate a lot of noise. On top of that, I'm not sure what MatrixClaw did with his 5150, but the one I had was extremely noisy.

At the very least, you'll need some gating in the loop, IMO. Both in front and in the loop is ideal for maximum tightness.

I miss my 5150 a little bit.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#11
Okay, This maybe be a stupid question. But what is the purpose of the EQ pedal after the amp's EQ? Just to give you more flexibility in tone?
BAWRS
#12
Quote by Offworld92
EMGs are pretty much silent. But the tubescreamer will generate a lot of noise. On top of that, I'm not sure what MatrixClaw did with his 5150, but the one I had was extremely noisy.

Nothing special, honestly. It's been bias modded and has a set of JJs in there, that's it

I've had probably 10 or so 5150s and their variants, they can be very noisy amps if they're not setup properly, though.

Quote by andbawr
Okay, This maybe be a stupid question. But what is the purpose of the EQ pedal after the amp's EQ? Just to give you more flexibility in tone?

Yes, it's to dial in at specific bands of the EQ curve, instead of just what is preset on the front of the amp with the Low/Mid/High.

It can be used to dial out flubby bass, harsh highs, add in some high mids, etc. I have an MXR 10 Band, but I never use it
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#13
Ahh so it cleans up the sound after it's been through all the previous pedals?

Would the pedals be set up like so?

Guitar - Amp - Tuner - TubeScreamer - NoiseGate - EQ?
BAWRS
#14
If you want a tight, percussive sound then a tubescreamer is a must. The 5150/6505 is already tight, but not quite the level of tightness that many metal heads require. I would disagree with the statement about needing an eq or even a suppressor. I find that the boosted sound of the amp is perfect, but some would disagree, and you might be one of those people. I don't have an unmanagable amount of noise coming from my amp, and i run high output passives. If it ever becomes a problem on stage, i have my ns2 just in case, but in most situations i havent needed it.
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#15
The Tube Screamer is the pedal I want to be getting first then?
BAWRS
#16
Quote by andbawr
Ahh so it cleans up the sound after it's been through all the previous pedals?

Would the pedals be set up like so?

Guitar - Amp - Tuner - TubeScreamer - NoiseGate - EQ?

The overdrive (tubescreamer) would be before the guitar and amp

I'd suggest the Maxon OD-808, it's pretty much the standard for metal.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#17
Quote by andbawr
The Tube Screamer is the pedal I want to be getting first then?


If you want the absolute tightest tone possible, i would say so. But if you want a more versatile sounding rig, or more control over your amps sound, then you might want an eq. If i could only keep one pedal, it would be my boost, but others would stand by their eq, their suppressor, or maybe their delay( my second pedal i would keep.)
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#18
Quote by almudjk
Yes, a noise suppressor is an essential.

But the type of gain all depends on what style of metal. A Tube Screamer acts as a gain boost, so this + amp overdrive, generates a type of sound that sounds like classic 80's metal, but if it's a more modern heavy sound definitely get a distortion pedal, or an amp that has three or more channels.

Also delays are also a key element to a lot metal. And maybe a wah, for good measures.


NO! The 6505 has way more gain than anyone could ever need, unless they're just feedbacking to annoy the neighbors. TS, get a Tubescreamer or equivalent. An ISP Decimator or MXR Noise Gate couldn't hurt either. If you want a shit-ton of sustain you could get a compressor too.


Quote by andbawr

Guitar - Amp - Tuner - TubeScreamer - NoiseGate - EQ?


Guitar -> tuner -> noisegate -> tubescreamer. Then the EQ can go anywhere in the chain or I'd put it in the effects loop so it's not in the way.
Last edited by FearMyLightning at Jan 15, 2012,
#19
Quote by MatrixClaw
A noise suppressor is NOT essential, if you're running a proper set of tubes and a nice guitar into it. I haven't needed to use my Decimator with an amp for years, including my 5150. I guess if you use too much gain and have a guitar with super high output pickups that aren't shielded, it could be a problem. You will probably need one if you plan on using a boost, though.

The Tubescreamer (or any kind of boost) is used to drive the amp with the gain set lower, thus giving you a clearer sound. It's not essential, but a lot of guys won't play without one. I find that on a bias modded 5150, it doesn't do a whole lot for the tone I'm going for, but it can add a lot to some amps (the crunch channel of the 5150/6505 included).


Umm... no.


MC, im not calling bull at you in anyway, but some amps need the noise gates. My 6534+ with relativly new JJs is pretty noisey when im using my PRS, I top my gain out at 5/10, never go higher. I dot need it for feedback but for preamp hum, maybe youre 5150 is one thats quiet? I dont know but i know im doing everything right and im still getting alot of noise.

Anways, for the TS i reccomend an EQ, a tubescreamer a noise gate and a solo booster like the mxr/cae mc104 pedal
#20
MFW I put all the pedals after the amp. Didn't realise I had done that.

Cheers for the replies, I understand it a lot more now.
BAWRS
#21
Quote by andbawr

Would the pedals be set up like so?

Guitar - Amp - Tuner - TubeScreamer - NoiseGate - EQ?


Every person has their own preferences, but ideally, IMO, what you want is Guitar - Tuner - OD - NS - Amp (FX loop send) - EQ - NS - Amp (return).

It's stupid to put the noise gate before the OD in front, because that defeats the purpose of even using the noise gate. Ditto with the NS being after the EQ in the loop.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#22
Quote by Seanthesheep
MC, im not calling bull at you in anyway, but some amps need the noise gates. My 6534+ with relativly new JJs is pretty noisey when im using my PRS, I top my gain out at 5/10, never go higher. I dot need it for feedback but for preamp hum, maybe youre 5150 is one thats quiet? I dont know but i know im doing everything right and im still getting alot of noise.

Anways, for the TS i reccomend an EQ, a tubescreamer a noise gate and a solo booster like the mxr/cae mc104 pedal


it really makes a difference how your power is. my house is five years old, some older homes may have more dodgy power going to the house. i also have all of my amps going through power conditioners, which makes a big difference. also i don't have any florescent lighting near, no computer monitors, etc. they can cause a lot of humming.

i can run either splawn without the power conditioner and at some people's houses i am fine, others it would be ideal for a noise suppressor. so i know where to bring the conditioner if it is a big deal there.

and to everybody with a 5150/6505 if you gain is beyond noon, it does NOT sound good.
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#23
Quote by Seanthesheep
MC, im not calling bull at you in anyway, but some amps need the noise gates. My 6534+ with relativly new JJs is pretty noisey when im using my PRS, I top my gain out at 5/10, never go higher. I dot need it for feedback but for preamp hum, maybe youre 5150 is one thats quiet? I dont know but i know im doing everything right and im still getting alot of noise.

Anways, for the TS i reccomend an EQ, a tubescreamer a noise gate and a solo booster like the mxr/cae mc104 pedal

I haven't tried the 6534+, but out of the multitude of amps I've owned, there are very few amps that actually need a noise suppressor if all your gear is working properly. Like I said, I've had noisy 5150s in the past, but out of the 10 or so I've had, it's not a common occurrence, and I'd chalk it up to old tubes most of the time. Regardless, a noise suppressor is still a useful tool to have, nearly all amps do feedback at high volumes, if you're standing close to them. Whether you feel like it needs to be controlled with a suppressor in the environment you're playing in, is up to you.

I don't know if your PRS has after market pickups, but most guitars aren't shielded, which seems to help quite a bit with noise on amps. If you have noise issues much more with that guitar specifically, it seems to me like the guitar is the problem, not the amp. All my amps are dead silent with my Jackson, Gibson and Parker, aside from a small bit a hum, which could more than likely be relieved with a power conditioner.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
and to everybody with a 5150/6505 if you gain is beyond noon, it does NOT sound good.

Gain on mine is at 6


*edit* Alright... someone's been ****ing with my settings... Mids are on 0. WHAT THE CRAP!?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#24
Quote by trashedlostfdup
it really makes a difference how your power is. my house is five years old, some older homes may have more dodgy power going to the house. i also have all of my amps going through power conditioners, which makes a big difference. also i don't have any florescent lighting near, no computer monitors, etc. they can cause a lot of humming.

i can run either splawn without the power conditioner and at some people's houses i am fine, others it would be ideal for a noise suppressor. so i know where to bring the conditioner if it is a big deal there.

and to everybody with a 5150/6505 if you gain is beyond noon, it does NOT sound good.


Like you just run your amps out of a furman or something?

And i find the 6534 has slightly less gain than a 6505, you can go up to 6 but after that its overkill
#26
Quote by MatrixClaw
*edit* Alright... someone's been ****ing with my settings... Mids are on 0. WHAT THE CRAP!?


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#27
Quote by MatrixClaw
I haven't tried the 6534+, but out of the multitude of amps I've owned, there are very few amps that actually need a noise suppressor if all your gear is working properly. Like I said, I've had noisy 5150s in the past, but out of the 10 or so I've had, it's not a common occurrence, and I'd chalk it up to old tubes most of the time. Regardless, a noise suppressor is still a useful tool to have, nearly all amps do feedback at high volumes, if you're standing close to them. Whether you feel like it needs to be controlled with a suppressor in the environment you're playing in, is up to you.

I don't know if your PRS has after market pickups, but most guitars aren't shielded, which seems to help quite a bit with noise on amps. If you have noise issues much more with that guitar specifically, it seems to me like the guitar is the problem, not the amp. All my amps are dead silent with my Jackson, Gibson and Parker, aside from a small bit a hum, which could more than likely be relieved with a power conditioner.


Gain on mine is at 6


*edit* Alright... someone's been ****ing with my settings... Mids are on 0. WHAT THE CRAP!?



Well All my guitars hume, not just the PRS but im using my prs as an example.

But this thread is making me want to buy a power conditioner......
#28
Quote by kyle62
Get the amp FIRST, eh?


Fine idea, make sure you find all these problems first, then fix them.
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#29
Oh hai guise, whats going on in this thread ?

-In the same situation as TC, also not satisfied with my sound and looking for ways to tweak my sound. Using an ENGL Screamer 50 combo and I cant quite get the sound I want. Definitely getting a boost pedal, probably the Bad Monkey, heard good things about it and its pretty cheap, but now I think Im most likely getting a noise supp. pedal too (Boss NS-2 mabbeh ?), cause that thing is damn noisy on the high gain lead channel.

So I guess that If I just got an on and noise pedal the loop would just go Guitar -> OD -> noise -> amp rite ? But what If one were to buy an EQ ? could I get a good budget EQ pedal to but before or after the OD so I wouldnt have to get two noise pedals ? And how much does an EQ matter really ?

Also is there any reason to get a tuner pedal, other than that its more convinient ?

AND, now that I have your attention and you have been talking about noise, taking off the cover of a pickup doesnt make it any noisier than a pickup that is build without a cover ye ? If you know what I mean.

okey, thread hi-jacking complete.
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#30
Quote by almudjk

But the type of gain all depends on what style of metal. A Tube Screamer acts as a gain boost, so this + amp overdrive, generates a type of sound that sounds like classic 80's metal, but if it's a more modern heavy sound definitely get a distortion pedal, or an amp that has three or more channels.


nah

a 6505 without a tubescreamer already sounds heavy as all get out (in a modern sense).

add a tubescreamer as well and you pretty much have the definition of br00talz tone.

basically, a tubescreamer does several things- it tightens your low end; it increases your mids; it boosts the signal to overdrive the first gain stage of your amp; it makes things a bit more present (certainly if you were running all true bypass pedals before, because that means you have no buffer); it adds a bit of its own clipping; it adds some compression.

Add all these together and it basically turns your tone into pure distilled awesome.

pinches jump out like mad, you get massive chug and saturation (but not as mushy as just turning the gain up), it's just awesome.

Quote by MatrixClaw
The overdrive (tubescreamer) would be before the guitar and amp

I'd suggest the Maxon OD-808, it's pretty much the standard for metal.


i'd just get anything that's closely based on a tubescreamer. basically teh cheapest you can get that's not going to crap out on you. e.g. joyo or tonerider.

if you're only using it as a boost into an already heavily overdriven amp i highly doubt you're going to hear much difference between very slightly different (or even completely-the-friggin-same) versions of a tubescreamer.

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#31
^You'd be surprised. Usually the amp takes on the tonal characteristics of the boost quite a bit. The OD-808 and BBE Boosta Grande are the most natural sounding and pleasing to my ear as a boost before you get into boutique pedals. I used to have a TS-9 and it made everything have a brittle and thin high end, same with the TS-7. The TS-808 is pretty good, but expensive and doesn't sound as good as the Maxon IMO.

Quote by Seanthesheep
Well All my guitars hume, not just the PRS but im using my prs as an example.

But this thread is making me want to buy a power conditioner......

Ah, well hum is a different thing than feedback, which is what I'm talking about when I say noisy. Hum is usually caused by improper grounding on the guitar, amp or the less than ideal conditions of your homes power. Most times a power conditioner will fix this.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#32
Quote by MatrixClaw
^You'd be surprised. Usually the amp takes on the tonal characteristics of the boost quite a bit. The OD-808 and BBE Boosta Grande are the most natural sounding and pleasing to my ear as a boost before you get into boutique pedals. I used to have a TS-9 and it made everything have a brittle and thin high end, same with the TS-7. The TS-808 is pretty good, but expensive and doesn't sound as good as the Maxon IMO.


that's funny, i hardly noticed any difference i could flip to the different clipping options on my biyang and they sounded the same (granted i had drive at 0 so maybe there wasn't a whole heap of clipping going on ).

my dano transparent od (timmy clone) does sound a fair bit different. But i meant more when you were using pedals which had the same circuit (or close to the same).

isn't the od808 based on the ts10? i mean that's an even less mojo/cork one than the ts9!

the boosta grande is a clean boost, though, right?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
Quote by Seanthesheep
Like you just run your amps out of a furman or something?

And i find the 6534 has slightly less gain than a 6505, you can go up to 6 but after that its overkill


not a furman, but a little more along the lines of industrial, while not being totally industrial. a lot of people who have something like what i am using use it on computers that are on steroids.

it works.
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Quote by andersondb7
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Quote by trashedlostfdup
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Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/