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#1
I've seen a ton of commercials with celebrities and non-profit organizations and shit, where they'll be saying "we need to put an end to Autism." (Example)

I saw some thing on TV tonight about some autistic 12-year-old kid going to University-Purdue studying Physics, on track to graduate at the age of 14. He started with auditing classes, and ended up getting As on the finals.

They were interviewing him, and he said he was very grateful for his autism, and it's what allows him to be able to have the memory he does, and it's what has given him the ability to study Physics at the college-level so successfully.

I remember I had a history class with an autistic kid. And while he definitely did have a lack of social awareness, he knew f*ck all about whatever we were talking about in class.

Some researchers have been saying there is a link between child prodigies and autism.

Now I recognize that people with these unusual "gifts" are a minority among people with autism, and don't represent autistic people as a whole, but do you think the attitude of "putting an end to Autism" is the right attitude to have? Or do you think we should have more of an attitude of acceptance to it?
#2
I think the part where it inhibits a person socially should be addressed as soon as its recognized in the child. I never got any treatment when I was young and am as ****ed up as can be. Intervening early is your best bet, it saves the child lots of pain and harm. And I am glad there's a movement to "stop" it. I mean you can't really change it, the kid is born with a ****ed brain but you can change behavior a bit.
#4
I don't think we need to "stop it," but we definitely need to research it more. Find out what exactly it does to people.

And then harness its power.
#5
"We need to put an end to autism". That almost sounds like they think it's something you can cure.


Well, of course you can cure autism if you'd just stop seeing it as a nice big coloured sticker to put on someone's head when he's not as socially adept as his peers and tends to be a bit more intelligent. I'm not talking about the bad cases where they can't even interact with the world around them, by the way. I'm just annoyed at how much the word is thrown around these days.
#6
Quote by MakinLattes
I just want to know where it was 20 years ago. I never even heard of autism until high school.

Barely any research was done on it 20 years ago so no one knew anything. And I would think children that would have been autistic then were just considered deathly shy or whatever. And I guarantee you most high schools don't teach about it.
#8
Quote by Butt Rayge
Wait, what? You can't end Autism.


Can you?


Is it contagious?

I just gave you it, man.


Have fun with life.
#9
Quote by BDR_23
I just gave you it, man.


Have fun with life.

Nah, that's alright, I'll just get the cure. Some anti-biotics should do the trick, because Autism isn't a genetic disease or anything. It's totally pathogenic.
#10
Quote by MakinLattes
I just want to know where it was 20 years ago. I never even heard of autism until high school.




This is where it was in '88. Seems there was already some public awareness more than 20 years ago. I don't really understand the recent upswing in publicity either though.
#11
It can't be stopped... it can however be more catered for. I know social problems are one of the main problems with autism but if schools run programmes that make students aware of autism and other related disabilities problems like bullying, lonliness etc can be eradicated.

Currently doing my college thesis on autism and from research i came across a school in the UK which ran one of these programmes because of a student with autism attending the school. They found that if the student with autism isn't actually identified and labelled as being the one with autism they are more likely to be accepted. However all depends on the level of autism...
#12
It's pretty unclear exactly what causes autism, it's generaly thought to be genetic but many environmental factors are also considered as possible causes, including childhood immunizations. Basicaly, it could be caused by any number of factors, so it's pretty hard to see how anyone can effectively put an end to Autism.

That just leaves us with the choice of acceptance and management therapies really.
#13
I think there needs to be more awareness for it.

My little brother has autism.
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#14
Autistic savants are quite a rare occurrence IIRC. I don't think that it (autism) is beneficial to a very large majority of people and creates an incredible burden on parents/guardians who have them. Steps should be taken to eliminate it from our genetics.
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#15
i think we should make them wear gold stars then rub boogers on them and beat em up n take their lunch money
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#16
Quote by The Madcap
I've seen a ton of commercials with celebrities and non-profit organizations and shit, where they'll be saying "we need to put an end to Autism." (Example)

I saw some thing on TV tonight about some autistic 12-year-old kid going to University-Purdue studying Physics, on track to graduate at the age of 14. He started with auditing classes, and ended up getting As on the finals.

They were interviewing him, and he said he was very grateful for his autism, and it's what allows him to be able to have the memory he does, and it's what has given him the ability to study Physics at the college-level so successfully.

I remember I had a history class with an autistic kid. And while he definitely did have a lack of social awareness, he knew f*ck all about whatever we were talking about in class.

Some researchers have been saying there is a link between child prodigies and autism.

Now I recognize that people with these unusual "gifts" are a minority among people with autism, and don't represent autistic people as a whole, but do you think the attitude of "putting an end to Autism" is the right attitude to have? Or do you think we should have more of an attitude of acceptance to it?


I'd just like to point out that savantism is a side effect of autism, they aren't one and the same.
#17
Quote by The Madcap
I remember I had a history class with an autistic kid. And while he definitely did have a lack of social awareness, he knew f*ck all about whatever we were talking about in class.

doesn't this mean he didn't have a clue what was going on in class?

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Warned for trolling!


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#18
Quote by Hail
i think we should make them wear gold stars then rub boogers on them and beat em up n take their lunch money


I think you should get out.
"You're not hardcore unless you live hardcore"
#19
You raise a good point TS, that ad just seems plain silly

The consensus has always seemed to have been that autism is a mental disability, which I guess makes sense because in the end that's pretty much what it comes down to: if you're an autistic person there's just certain things you can't do (well) because of some alterations which occur in your brain at a young age

What I do have a problem with is when people start treating the term "disability" as a synonym for "bad" or "faulty". For example: a close relative of mine has always shown signs of autism, but apart from some compulsive habits and limited social skills he just seems to be functioning pretty fine to me. He has about 0 close friends but everyone seems to like him and he can get along just fine with virtually anybody he meets (plus he's hella funny). I have no doubt he would like to be more socially "able" if he were given the chance, but then again a LOT of the traits that make him into this nice and unique person originate from his "condition" and to take that away from him would probably mean he'd become the same boring-ass person you encounter at work or at the mall (or every time you turn on your TV for that matter)

He might become as lousy a student as I am, he'd probably share the same stupid insecurities the rest of us have and I wouldn't be surprised if this generally happy person I know started to turn into the "depressed, life hating loser"-persona a lot of us seem to be or feel like at times. So yeah, he's different but I still fail to see why this is a bad thing. If "not fitting the norm" seems to be the thing that bothers us the most about autism, what about the traits many autistic people seem to share that DO help 'em live up to and often exceed our norms? I mean, I bet those teachers who deal with those 12 year old college students feel way different about this condition than Vince Neil (really dude? how 'bout tackling alcoholism first...)

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#20
Quote by Hail
i think we should make them wear gold stars then rub boogers on them and beat em up n take their lunch money


For the love of God I hope you are trolling, because if you aren't you should die in a horrible, horrible, painful and slow way. Twat
#21
Quote by The_Casinator
"We need to put an end to autism". That almost sounds like they think it's something you can cure.


Well, of course you can cure autism if you'd just stop seeing it as a nice big coloured sticker to put on someone's head when he's not as socially adept as his peers and tends to be a bit more intelligent. I'm not talking about the bad cases where they can't even interact with the world around them, by the way. I'm just annoyed at how much the word is thrown around these days.

Agreed. Just seeing the sentence "We need to put an end to autism" pissed me off.
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#22
It's definitely possible.

The cause(s) of autism are unknown, so it's pretty difficult to cure something that you don't understand. If it's genetic disease then it would be treatable, well in a sense anyway. A couple who are having a child who would be at risk would just have a DNA test to see whether they carry the gene(s) causing autism. If they had a child they could do it in vitro and have the embryos screened prior to inserting the embryo into the mother, and if they are intent on using a specific embryo then effectively the DNA could be altered. The only major problem with a lot of what is it's relatively new techniques or just not possible atm.

In terms of treating a child with it, again the disease would need to be understood. From my understanding, it basically affects the development of nerves and brain cells? That makes it currently pretty damn untreatable with current technology. If a child was diagnosed very early on i'm pretty sure that in the future there will be a way to either cure or make the disease a lot less severe.
#23
Quote by Shabalaba
It's definitely possible.

The cause(s) of autism are unknown, so it's pretty difficult to cure something that you don't understand. If it's genetic disease then it would be treatable, well in a sense anyway. A couple who are having a child who would be at risk would just have a DNA test to see whether they carry the gene(s) causing autism. If they had a child they could do it in vitro and have the embryos screened prior to inserting the embryo into the mother, and if they are intent on using a specific embryo then effectively the DNA could be altered. The only major problem with a lot of what is it's relatively new techniques or just not possible atm.


This is really the only way to "cure" autism. It is indeed a mixture between genetic and environmental factors. If the genetic faults can be discovered (there are already a few genes linked to autism, cba to find articles on them at this time), using the method you described embryos with such "autism genes" could be found and discarded. However, this is obviously not a "cure" for people who already have it. There will not ever be one either, other than good stimulation and guidance, due to it's partially genetic nature.
#24
(continued from my previous post)

Not only that: I've always asked myself the question: if we were to confront this kid I'm talking about with the fact that he's "not normal", wouldn't we risk the chance of making it worse? He's not really that perceptive and although I don't doubt he himself knows he's different from the rest of us in a couple of ways, he'd feel horrible if he knew people are talking about him behind his back as if he's retarded or something, especially since he's such a borderline case

I say this because an aunt of mine has insisted on taking him to a doctor and having him diagnosed. Srsly: why risk getting him depressed or insecure for the rest of his life if he's relatively fine, especially now that he's already off to college, which after all is something a lot of us consider to be the prescription for a succesful and happy life

There's no "special recipe" for helping him get a girlfriend: nothing that you won't tell to an extremely (non-autistic) shy kid anyways. If anything, identifying autism early on is something that'll help out the parents of these kids the most because in the end they're the ones with the toughest job

Now I know this whole argument of mine may change if some brilliant biologist finds a way to "fix" the brain of a kid who's started developing asperger or whatever, but until that time it's probably best to treat this thing like something you'll just have to learn to live WITH. What's even more silly is this "rock stars against autism" campaign isn't even meant to finance such research: it's a camnpaign for raising awareness

No doubt there's some good intentions involved and all, but why make Ronnie James Dio utter the words "help us put an end to autism" if this is an awareness campaign? Hell, most parents of autistic kids know about their child's condition anyways so if these campaigns have any use at all it's for countering the ignorance surrounding autism... like for example the notion that it's curable

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Last edited by shwilly at Jan 16, 2012,
#25
Quote by The_Casinator
"We need to put an end to autism". That almost sounds like they think it's something you can cure.


Well, of course you can cure autism if you'd just stop seeing it as a nice big coloured sticker to put on someone's head when he's not as socially adept as his peers and tends to be a bit more intelligent. I'm not talking about the bad cases where they can't even interact with the world around them, by the way. I'm just annoyed at how much the word is thrown around these days.


Intelligence isn't a standard of autism. You have autistic savants yes but the two aren't the same.

Autistic children do tend to excellent in certain areas though in some cases. One of my friends in high school had an autistic cousin who was amazing at the guitar given that he had only been playing like 6 months. I was just thinking then that in cases like that, the child in question probably has a really high development in certain cognitive areas but lacks development in others.
#26
Quote by Anchr
This is really the only way to "cure" autism. It is indeed a mixture between genetic and environmental factors. If the genetic faults can be discovered (there are already a few genes linked to autism, cba to find articles on them at this time), using the method you described embryos with such "autism genes" could be found and discarded. However, this is obviously not a "cure" for people who already have it. There will not ever be one either, other than good stimulation and guidance, due to it's partially genetic nature.


You would need to understand the genetics behind it, which is why what i'm posting is purely speculative. But surely if it is found that autisms genetic factor is the lack of a protein/ hormone/ (etcetcetc) then surely over saturation of that molecule early on would help?
#27
Quote by BDR_23
I think the part where it inhibits a person socially should be addressed as soon as its recognized in the child. I never got any treatment when I was young and am as ****ed up as can be. Intervening early is your best bet, it saves the child lots of pain and harm. And I am glad there's a movement to "stop" it. I mean you can't really change it, the kid is born with a ****ed brain but you can change behavior a bit.


I know the feeling.

I recently tested for autism, and I'm borderline. I talked to a few professionals psychologists I work with and around and their general attitude was, "No shit Sherlock." They thought I was autistic for years, but no one wanted to do anything about it because I mostly functioned well and my abilities were a valued asset.

Basically, I have the social skills of a beaver with a chainsaw, but have analytical skills that are over the top.

As a kid I was known as the weird smart kid, but back then you had to be full on rainman to be considered autistic.

I still have to wonder if the move to expand Autism, ADD, Depression, Psychosis, and other diagnosis is just a way to fit more and more people into nice little categories of ****edupness.

Yeah, I can look at my own life and see where some sort of intervention might have done some good at a young age, but a reasonably functional family might have helped just as much if not more.
#28
Quote by SlackerBabbath
It's pretty unclear exactly what causes autism, it's generaly thought to be genetic but many environmental factors are also considered as possible causes, including childhood immunizations. Basicaly, it could be caused by any number of factors, so it's pretty hard to see how anyone can effectively put an end to Autism.

That just leaves us with the choice of acceptance and management therapies really.


The immunization thing turned out to be horseshit. The Dr. involved in that research was doing illegal spinal taps on kids and when his research didn't pan out, he just faked the results.
#29
Quote by Shabalaba
You would need to understand the genetics behind it, which is why what i'm posting is purely speculative. But surely if it is found that autisms genetic factor is the lack of a protein/ hormone/ (etcetcetc) then surely over saturation of that molecule early on would help?


I do not believe it is caused by an abundance or lack of any hormone or protein, but rather an error in the development of the brains. I believe there once was a research that stated that some parts of the brains were slightly more developed and others were slightly less developed than those of a "normal" person.

However if, after more much needed research on the subject, it seems that there is a protein/hormone/etcetcetc factor, then it might be a possibility to have those molecules added to ones diet in the form of complimentary pills etcetc.
There already is a theory that good stimulation of the digestive system has positive outcomes for people with autism. So lots of brown bread etc. People who have tried it saw a major improvement in the social field and other parts in life that are difficult for them.
#30
Quote by Anchr
I do not believe it is caused by an abundance or lack of any hormone or protein, but rather an error in the development of the brains. I believe there once was a research that stated that some parts of the brains were slightly more developed and others were slightly less developed than those of a "normal" person.

However if, after more much needed research on the subject, it seems that there is a protein/hormone/etcetcetc factor, then it might be a possibility to have those molecules added to ones diet in the form of complimentary pills etcetc.

There already is a theory that good stimulation of the digestive system has positive outcomes for people with autism. So lots of brown bread etc. People who have tried it saw a major improvement in the social field and other parts in life that are difficult for them.


There has to be a decisive factor separating why some areas of the brain develop well and others don't though. I jumped on the over saturation idea because i remember my one of my genetics lecturers (i think it was anyway) talking about something along those lines in terms of a different disease.

Well, in relation to what you just said. There has to be a common factor linking the two. Was the testing on children or adults?

I'm interested now so i'm going to have to read up on it
#31
Quote by seabear70


I still have to wonder if the move to expand Autism, ADD, Depression, Psychosis, and other diagnosis is just a way to fit more and more people into nice little categories of ****edupness.


I think it's more a case of recently developing evidence that seems to be showing some sort of correlation between these conditions.
#32
Quote by SlackerBabbath
I think it's more a case of recently developing evidence that seems to be showing some sort of correlation between these conditions.


I'll allow that possibility, but it seems like everyone has to have a labeled dysfunction these days.
#33
Quote by seabear70
I'll allow that possibility, but it seems like everyone has to have a labeled dysfunction these days.


There has been a lot of research into ADHD and whether it's just a 'social disease' given to bad kids (over simplification but yeah).

I had the choice to do it as an essay for tutorial but i chose genetic links to intelligence. I had a skim over some of the research for ADHD though and it was pretty interesting stuff. If you go on google scholar and look at some papers on ADHD you might find it interesting if you're sceptical.
#34
Quote by seabear70
I'll allow that possibility, but it seems like everyone has to have a labeled dysfunction these days.

Yours is called Profound Mental Retardation.
#35
Quote by seabear70
I'll allow that possibility, but it seems like everyone has to have a labeled dysfunction these days.


That actualy makes some sense when you think about it. Nobody's perfect, everyone has some sort of hang-up, an area in their lives in which they are effectively 'dysfunctional', so why shouldn't everyone have a label that discribes their particular hang-up?
#36
Quote by Shabalaba
There has been a lot of research into ADHD and whether it's just a 'social disease' given to bad kids (over simplification but yeah).

I had the choice to do it as an essay for tutorial but i chose genetic links to intelligence. I had a skim over some of the research for ADHD though and it was pretty interesting stuff. If you go on google scholar and look at some papers on ADHD you might find it interesting if you're sceptical.

I was in a car with one of my kids for 23 hours. At one point I had to stop for a nap. I slept for 5 hours, and then woke up on my own.

My son was 11 at the time. The batteries died in his game boy about 15 mins after I fell asleep. He needed to use the bathroom apparently shortly after that. I had told him not to leave the car without waking me up.

He sat there for hours with a full bladder and nothing to do quietly and with nothing to occupy his mind or hands, and did not try to wake me up.

This is a kid with a lot of self-control.

A month later I dropped him off at his mother's and after I refused to let her con me out of $30,000 she found a Dr. and managed to get him diagnosed with ADHD.

A year later talked to his teachers, his school psychologist, and his principal, they were shocked that he would be put on medication. His Dr. Refused to talk to me.

My Ex eventually, in a fit of rage, screamed that she would do whatever the hell she wanted to do to the kids.

So, I think my skepticism is perfectly justified.
#37
Well your child doesn't seem like he has ADHD then.

A doctor being unable to diagnose ADHD =/= no such thing as ADHD.
#38
Quote by SlackerBabbath
That actualy makes some sense when you think about it. Nobody's perfect, everyone has some sort of hang-up, an area in their lives in which they are effectively 'dysfunctional', so why shouldn't everyone have a label that discribes their particular hang-up?

Well, I can see what you are saying, but what if we apply that same attitude toward appearance?

Sure, a certain amount of that is a good thing. Exercise, personal hygiene. But when people start popping diet pills like candy and going in for cosmetic surgery to fix some perceived flaw, then things are getting out of hand.

So, yeah, if you have a kid that has serious issues, cannot relate at all to other kids his age, suicidal tendencies, listens to Munedo , stuff like that, then he may need some help.

If you have a teenager who thinks his parents are dicks and that no one understands them, people need to just accept that being a teenager is like that.
#39
Quote by Shabalaba
Well, in relation to what you just said. There has to be a common factor linking the two. Was the testing on children or adults?

I'm interested now so i'm going to have to read up on it


The tests were done on several people, I believe their age ranged from mid to end teens. This because the social aspect could be monitored more easily - not as much "experience" as adolescents and older but still old enough to study them properly for behaviour changes.

I wish I could remember where I read about the test... Sorry that I can't help any further than that :p Making matters worse for you: it was done by a Dutch father of a child with autism, he came up with the diet himself and found others who would try it too, seemed to work. I only read about it in a local newspaper, so it might be hard to find that specific test in an English article...
#40
If I wasn't on the autistic spectrum I wouldn't be such a dedicated musician. Socialising is ****ing difficult but in the end the positives outweigh the negatives I think.

Quote by seabear70

Basically, I have the social skills of a beaver with a chainsaw, but have analytical skills that are over the top.

this
Last edited by korinaflyingv at Jan 16, 2012,
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