#1
you have probably heard this 1000 times before but Im not really sure what to do in this situation

basically my band has got sick of our lead singer and have all left. (4 out of the 5 of us have gone)

we are starting a new band under a new name with a different singer, our old vocalist doesnt know this yet, she still thinks that we are just leaving the band to concentrate on work.

she has just informed us that she has got some replacement musicians and wants us to tab out our parts and attend a practice session to show the new guys how to play the songs...
just wondering where we stand in all this?
I dont really want to just hand the music I wrote over to somebody else so am I within my rights to say no?

it feels like writing an essay, then handing it to somebody else to hand in...


Edit:

had to copy this up here because people are skipping the conversation and its making me and the rest of my band look bad =/

"Im not going to go too in debth with it but keeping it from her could save her life (knowing her history)
I dont want her to know that we are all leaving because of her, this might make her try something again that might work this time... and i dont want that to happen.
I agree with talking her through the chord changes though and I will do that but Im going to make it clear that if I ever want to use the music again that I will.

Im also thinking it might be better to wait a couple of months before mentioning the new band to her... that way the new members of her band will be settled and it will be too late to ask us back.

trust me, Im not a Dick... I do everything for a reason and keeping this from her could stop her doing something that I would regret for the rest of my life,"
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
Last edited by Dave Frenzy at Jan 16, 2012,
#2
Honestly this isn't really a hard decision. You guys own the music part of it, unless she had a hands in help on writing guitar parts. (Suggestions that you took kinda count, but eh.) She owns any lyrics she came up with.

It doesn't really matter about the lyrics though, because they'll likely be useless for any other song than what they were written for.


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#3
Are you in good terms with her and is your new band different from the previous one? if you are, then no harm in showing them how its played. and if this band is musically different than the previous one, then i wouldnt mind. Its up to you, but personally, id tell them to **** off and learn the songs by ear
#4
Quote by killer puppy
Its up to you, but personally, id tell them to **** off and learn the songs by ear


x2
#5
The short answer is that ownership of the songs depends on who wrote them, but it's not like you can particularly stop her from singing them anyway. If she developed the melody and lyrics, then she has as much right to them as you do, if not more.

(Music copyright - I am not a lawyer - does not generally protect the accompaniment).

If she is a co-songwriter on the songs in question, then while I wouldn't tab stuff out (it's not particularly useful to someone who hasn't heard the song anyway) I would probably walk her through the chord changes if she couldn't figure them out already. "Do onto others," you know, and if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd hope a musician who was leaving your band was at least willing to talk you through the basics of what he was playing. You may be sick of her, but if you just blow her off here then you're the asshole in the breakup.

If she's not a co-songwriter, then it's a little dicier - and you've made things more complicated by being dishonest. You know how I always say be honest with your bandmates? Well, guess what - you've poisoned the waters for avoiding significant conflict with her by lying to her rather than having a civil, grown-up conversation.

And guess what - it's always better to avoid that confrontation. Depending on how much of a dick you are here, you may well be walking into a situation where this can cause discord - because you have an enemy, now, not a friend-who-you-used-to-be-in-a-band-with. If you are total dick here, you run the risk of problems down the road because there will be people - producers or club owners or whatever - that she can tell you were being a dick.

So honestly, I think your best bet is to sit down with her, walk her through the basic chord changes, tell her that you're exploring some other musical options, and wish her well.
#6
Quote by HotspurJr

So honestly, I think your best bet is to sit down with her, walk her through the basic chord changes, tell her that you're exploring some other musical options, and wish her well.


the thing is, its really not that simple...

Im not going to go too in debth with it but keeping it from her could save her life (knowing her history)

I dont want her to know that we are all leaving because of her, this might make her try something again that might work this time... and i dont want that to happen.

I agree with talking her through the chord changes though and I will do that but Im going to make it clear that if I ever want to use the music again that I will.


Im also thinking it might be better to wait a couple of months before mentioning the new band to her... that way the new members of her band will be settled and it will be too late to ask us back.


trust me, Im not a Dick... I do everything for a reason and keeping this from her could stop her doing something that I would regret for the rest of my life,
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#7
Well there's two problems here:

The first is that you guys tried to avoid kicking the singer by all leaving and forming a different band, wanting to make the same songs. Now you pay the consequences, she doesn't know what position you and her are in and is asking for something actually pretty reasonable - the ability to continue playing the songs. You quit, she didn't.

The second is in relation to copyright. If she's the singer, and she wrote the lyrics and melodies, she easily has more copyright entitlements than you guys. As mentioned above I'd just record them all as a band and hand the recordings over to her. A competent musician should be able to figure them out.

But you haven't even considered the fallout when she finds out that you guys are continuing on as a band. It's pretty low, and she won't take it well. At worst your new band gets a reputation as a bunch of douches, and you haven't even started gigging yet. Nobody likes douches.

What you should do is what you claimed you would do, and then also tell her that all of you are forming a band. That is, make a new band, with new songs, and tell her that you guys are forming a new band together. How she reacts to this, it's up to her. She could be angry, she could just take it and move on. Both ways are reasonable, she's just been screwed over by some people she trusted.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#8
Quote by AlanHB
Well there's two problems here:

The first is that

...

Both ways are reasonable, she's just been screwed over by some people she trusted.



just going to refer you back up to my reply above your's

we have done it this way for a reason. if we thought she was level headed enough to be able to cope with the truth of it all, we would have told her but like I mentioned we are VERY worried of how she might take it so, we are keeping the real reasons to ourselves for a couple of months.

the plan atm is to lay low for a couple of months and just write more songs/rehearse our live shows then in about April time (if we are ready) Ill mention that I am starting something new... hopefully she wont read into it too much to see what has actually happened =/
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#9
If you guys are as good as you're implying.. Let her have the tunes... do you really think she's going to be the next big thing and make a bunch of money on them?

Take the high road.. You guys quit her.. instead of resolving the conflict and expaining what you don't like and why she's not a good fit... so you've gone behind her back....

Suck it up and write more without her.. put it behind you and move on..
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#10
Quote by Dave Frenzy
just going to refer you back up to my reply above your's


Which is:

Quote by Dave Frenzy
trust me, Im not a Dick... I do everything for a reason and keeping this from her could stop her doing something that I would regret for the rest of my life,


Dude, she's going to find out either way, and it's going to hurt. The only difference is that you didn't have the balls to tell her your plans right now - it's going to be perfectly obvious. The path you've chosen is simply going to hurt her more, so that throws your excuse out the window.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#11
Quote by AlanHB
Which is:

Dude, she's going to find out either way, and it's going to hurt. The only difference is that you didn't have the balls to tell her your plans right now - it's going to be perfectly obvious. The path you've chosen is simply going to hurt her more, so that throws your excuse out the window.


Took the words right out of my mouth.

I understand in your reply that you don't want her to find out for a while, but here's the thing:

Assume she's going to find out before you want her to, because odds are she will. So if you really care about her, then you have a responsibility to figure out how to tell her with the least amount of damage.

And that almost always involves being proactive and telling her before you have to. It means being forthright and honest. Telling her you're not doing music to focus on work, I'm sorry, but that'd be absurd if we didn't live in a facebook/twitter world - and we do. Trying to keep something like that hidden in today's world is absurd.
#12
ok then...

how do I tell her that the whole band has left to start something new because she wasnt a good singer/front man WITHOUT her taking a shit load of pills and Vodka again?


unless you have been in this situation then you have no idea how it feels to think that you might be too late to save somebody you care about... atm I'd rather bare faced lie to her that have that feeling again....
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#13
Quote by Dave Frenzy
ok then...

how do I tell her that the whole band has left to start something new because she wasnt a good singer/front man WITHOUT her taking a shit load of pills and Vodka again?


With respect. Sure she may go wild, but in my personal experience they don't. I recall putting off dumping a girl for a couple of months because I was afraid she'd hurt herself, my brother did the same. In the end I dumped my girl, she didn't kill herself, although she was very upset. My brother's girlfriend cheated on him with our housemate, but that's a story for another time.

Quote by Dave Frenzy
unless you have been in this situation then you have no idea how it feels to think that you might be too late to save somebody you care about... atm I'd rather bare faced lie to her that have that feeling again....


I have been in that situation. We dropped her from the band. Yes, it did hurt her, but it was done with respect and we kept on good terms after, even getting her to play some support slots for us.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#14
Quote by AlanHB
With respect. Sure she may go wild, but in my personal experience they don't. I recall putting off dumping a girl for a couple of months because I was afraid she'd hurt herself, my brother did the same. In the end I dumped my girl, she didn't kill herself, although she was very upset. My brother's girlfriend cheated on him with our housemate, but that's a story for another time.


I have been in that situation. We dropped her from the band. Yes, it did hurt her, but it was done with respect and we kept on good terms after, even getting her to play some support slots for us.



alright, thanks for the advise man =)

we have our last gig in a couple of weeks so Ill sit her down backstage after the gig and mention it then... just so that if it does turn sour we wont have to play through it on stage =/
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#15
Quote by Dave Frenzy
ok then...

how do I tell her that the whole band has left to start something new because she wasnt a good singer/front man WITHOUT her taking a shit load of pills and Vodka again?


unless you have been in this situation then you have no idea how it feels to think that you might be too late to save somebody you care about... atm I'd rather bare faced lie to her that have that feeling again....

but your simply delaying the inevitable and multiplying the effect that it's going to have on her...

Sit her down, and talk to her about it... give her the tunes and help her out as much as you can...
I Play Guitar
Some Like it
Some don't
I don't care
Beats Workin'
OLD GUYS RULE!!!!
#16
Quote by Dave Frenzy
alright, thanks for the advise man =)

we have our last gig in a couple of weeks so Ill sit her down backstage after the gig and mention it then... just so that if it does turn sour we wont have to play through it on stage =/


Good man. Make sure that it's just you two, in a nice environment. Be straight with her. If needs be just write out what you want to say, make it honest. It mayn't be nice but she does deserve to know.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#17
Quote by Papabear505
but your simply delaying the inevitable and multiplying the effect that it's going to have on her...

Sit her down, and talk to her about it... give her the tunes and help her out as much as you can...



Im going to do that anyway. I wont have time to Tab everything for her but the chord progressions wont take too long to write out (if I can figure out what the hell I play)


Ill tell her on friday then... I wont say that we left because of her though, that does seem too harsh tbh and we couldnt have kicked her out because she's the one that started the band so its her band name really.


thanks for the advise its helped clear my pretty chaotic mind right now
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#18
Quote by Dave Frenzy
Im going to do that anyway. I wont have time to Tab everything for her but the chord progressions wont take too long to write out (if I can figure out what the hell I play)


That's actually one point I agree with you dude - in this situation I'd simply supply the recordings of your final gig to her (got a friend with a video camera?) and give her a copy. Doing tabs is unnecessary and a waste of your time. If really pushed, supply quick chord sheets at most.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#19
Quote by AlanHB
That's actually one point I agree with you dude - in this situation I'd simply supply the recordings of your final gig to her (got a friend with a video camera?) and give her a copy. Doing tabs is unnecessary and a waste of your time. If really pushed, supply quick chord sheets at most.



We actually recorded an EP about 4 months ago... only problem was its taken 4 months to master and still isnt finished apparently and the copies we have got sound really bad so we never got to the point that we could release them...


ahwell hopefully with the new band we will learn from our mistakes
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#20
Honestly bro, I have to agree... that as the one who is basically carrying the name of the band that originally made the songs, the best course of action would be:

Keep the atmosphere positive, and optimistic. Dont talk down to her like shes a kid or like shes unstable, show her dignity. If i were you I would tab out the songs out of respect, because when you leave the band, you leave behind the work you've done under the name of that band ... and the copyright is owned by the band, not by the guitarists and drummers (meanwhile if she left, you all would have the copyrights cuz you bear the band's name

So tell her after the show and explain to her that you'll do what you can to help her new group get established. It's the least you can do. Besides, look at it this way. By doing this it makes you look like the good guy and it will make a friend, so if her new band DOES get anywhere, she'll likely give you a share of the publicity if you're close friends still
#21
Quote by Dave Frenzy
ok then...

how do I tell her that the whole band has left to start something new because she wasnt a good singer/front man WITHOUT her taking a shit load of pills and Vodka again?


unless you have been in this situation then you have no idea how it feels to think that you might be too late to save somebody you care about... atm I'd rather bare faced lie to her that have that feeling again....


Hi there.

I know not from bandleading, but I have been in this situation before. My mother tried to off herself after my dad divorced her. She's only alive today because I came home earlier than I said I would and found her unconscious.

You said "again" with reference to the pills-and-vodka thing, which tells me that she's tried to kill herself before. I am not a therapist, but here's what I've learned about this sort of thing; ultimately, you can't babysit someone 24/7, and you can't let them control your lives, either. If she is that mentally unstable, eventually she will either get help or drag you down with her. It is your responsibility to take care of your own mental health first and foremost, and take whatever steps necessary to do that.

So, in short, (and this is just a wild-ass guess), these suicide attempts are an indirect attempt to control the people around her, even if she doesn't realize it - because people will do whatever she wants, or at least pussyfoot around and change the way they behave, just to keep her out of that space. That's controlling, and abusive - and although suicide is a cry for help, ultimately there comes a time where you have to say, "look; we all care about you but you need more help than we can give you. See a professional."

tl;dr - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. She's going to do what she's going to do, and you can't stop her. It's a difficult situation.

Anyway, good luck.
#22
I told her tonight that I want to try and get the group together with a new singer... she hasnt taken it very well.

she got really pissed off because its basically the old band without her, went on about all the work she put in and had a go at me for "stealing HER band" which is more proof that the band wasnt a joint effort in the first place.

after abit she calmed down and seemed pretty decent. I think its only because she has realised that we have one more gig and that she needs me to write down the music still.


she has asked if we will go in for a practice in a weeks time to teach the new people the music. still dont want to do this, if they cant figure out the material by ear they probably wont be able to play it and I dont want to be giving guitar lessons...
Quote by Metalmarathon
The concept of self-fulfilling prophecies never seem to occur to the ones that always create them.


Attic Green
My Band
#23
^^^^ Good man, you took the grown up route, it ends with a grown up result.

I'm still with you with "teaching" the parts - go for the recording, chord sheets at most. Tell her that if they can't figure out how to play the songs, chances are they don't know how to write new ones either, so she doesn't need them.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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