#1
Ever since I learned about dominants and major sevenths, i've been abusing the hell out of them. I figure, hey, let's jazz this shit up a lil. Make the sound fuller, or twangier, whatever.


What are some disadvantages of using a seventh as a tonic chord?
sigless
#2
There's no advantage or disadvantage. It is what it is. What's the disadvantage of using a minor chord?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#4
Quote by scarhawk
I think he's asking, when SHOULDN'T you use a seventh chord.


when it doesn't sound good in context
modes are a social construct
#5
When you want the one chord to sound more like 'home base' don't play the b7. Dominant chords contain a tritone which makes the chord want to move, if you don't want that sound then leave out the b7, if you still want to make it sound jazzy use the major 7 or major 6.
#6
Quote by sysD
What are some disadvantages of using a seventh as a tonic chord?

Cuz they're gay.
#8
It depends on the style.
From a classical point of view, something like V7 to I7 doesn't sound like a perfect candence, because when you're the Tonic is for example C Major, the 7th is a Bb, which implies a modulation to the subdominant key F Major (C7 is the V7 of F major).

So to fully resolve the tension, you would expect a F Major chord next, which makes it a V/V7 V7 I progression in the key of F Major. (which is a pretty sloppy way to modulate but still..)


In short, you shouldn't use I7 chords when you are trying to create a perfect cadence.
Because I7 includes an accidental of the subdominant key and can therefore sound as a V7.


That effect gets lost of course when you just spam a 7 into every chord, then it just works as a color note.
#9
Quote by 505088K
It depends on the style.
From a classical point of view, something like V7 to I7 doesn't sound like a perfect candence, because when you're the Tonic is for example C Major, the 7th is a Bb, which implies a modulation to the subdominant key F Major (C7 is the V7 of F major).

So to fully resolve the tension, you would expect a F Major chord next, which makes it a V/V7 V7 I progression in the key of F Major. (which is a pretty sloppy way to modulate but still..)


In short, you shouldn't use I7 chords when you are trying to create a perfect cadence.
Because I7 includes an accidental of the subdominant key and can therefore sound as a V7.


That effect gets lost of course when you just spam a 7 into every chord, then it just works as a color note.


7ths in classical music are used differently and more subtly than in modern music. They are used a lot but more in the form of suspensions, appoggituras and passing 7ths.
#10
Quote by griffRG7321
7ths in classical music are used differently and more subtly than in modern music. They are used a lot but more in the form of suspensions, appoggituras and passing 7ths.


Of course, but the harmonic implications are still the same aren't they?
In my last sentence I was reffering to Jazz/Blues if you are talking about that.. sorry for being unspecific
#12
Quote by 505088K
It depends on the style.
From a classical point of view, something like V7 to I7 doesn't sound like a perfect candence, because when you're the Tonic is for example C Major, the 7th is a Bb, which implies a modulation to the subdominant key F Major (C7 is the V7 of F major).

So to fully resolve the tension, you would expect a F Major chord next, which makes it a V/V7 V7 I progression in the key of F Major. (which is a pretty sloppy way to modulate but still..)


In short, you shouldn't use I7 chords when you are trying to create a perfect cadence.
Because I7 includes an accidental of the subdominant key and can therefore sound as a V7.


That effect gets lost of course when you just spam a 7 into every chord, then it just works as a color note.



Great answer.


So If I'm using, say, a major seventh as my tonic, does that limit my options as to what can be played in scale?
I know that some tones can sound dissonant on top of a seventh (eg fourth) but what about in chord progressions? If my tonic is C Major 7 then are my options more limited for notes in the proceeding chord progression?
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#13
You might die of AIDS if you land on the tonic with a major 7th, but you know, that's what makes music so exciting.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#14
Quote by Xiaoxi
You might die of AIDS if you land on the tonic with a major 7th, but you know, that's what makes music so exciting.

I use major seventh chords all the time.

Why did you have to say this?
#15
Quote by :-D
I use major seventh chords all the time.

Why did you have to say this?

Well...it was nice knowing you...


Godspeed...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#17
Quote by :-D
I also use lots of ninths and elevenths...those don't happen to cure AIDS, do they?

You best stop unless you want to die by Ebola.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#19
Quote by :-D
bye UG...


I'm sure they'll make a movie about you one day.
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#20
Quote by Xiaoxi
You might die of AIDS if you land on the tonic with a major 7th, but you know, that's what makes music so exciting.


Jimmy Bruno's been landing on major 7ths since before you were born. Personally I'd encourage AIDS patients to resolve to the major 7th tonic as a possible cure for the disease.
#21
maybe i should rephrase.


does the scale change if the tonic is a seventh instead of... a simple triad (1-3-5)?
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#22
Quote by sysD
maybe i should rephrase.


does the scale change if the tonic is a seventh instead of... a simple triad (1-3-5)?

The scale wouldn't change, since all you're doing is adding an extension that doesn't change the basic tonality of the triad.
#24
Quote by :-D
bye UG...


no way!! :-D
use protection, do not finger them without a latex pick..
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#25
Quote by Xiaoxi
You might die of AIDS if you land on the tonic with a major 7th, but you know, that's what makes music so exciting.

Like I said...
Quote by mdc
Cuz they're gay.

Quote by :-D
The scale wouldn't change, since all you're doing is adding an extension that doesn't change the basic tonality of the triad.

^Oops, the 7th is a chord tonem not an extension.
Last edited by mdc at Jan 19, 2012,
#27
If you're using a 7th chord as a sub for the tonic then use a scale with a flat 7 in it, like mixolydian, not one with a major 7, like a major scale. If you're just playing the triad then you can do what you like but if you choose a flat 7 it'll sound like a dominant chord sub.
You should really understand, or at least be able to recognise by hearing it, the function of dominant chords in order to use them as substitutions.
#28
Quote by Zanon
They sound pretty bad with distortion on...

Not if you voice them correctly. I use seventh chords all the time and never have an issue.
#29
Quote by :-D
Not if you voice them correctly. I use seventh chords all the time and never have an issue.


Going moderate on the gain knob can also help, or having a dirt box that is pretty transparent. It's certainly possible to retain note definition with some dirt, as long as it isn't like a maxed-gain metal sound.
#30
Quote by Brainpolice2
It's certainly possible to retain note definition with some dirt, as long as it isn't like a maxed-gain metal sound.

I play through an ENGL.
#31
if you have max-gain on your amp, you probably don't know what a 7th chord is
modes are a social construct
#32
Quote by Hail
if you have max-gain on your amp, you probably don't know what a 7th chord is

I've used max gain and gotten great sounds out of 7th chords

Granted, I hated the amount of gain... I rolled it wayyyyy down after
#33
Quote by mdc
Cuz they're gay.


LOL - epic!

That made my day. When I read it I was about to go off on the person who wrote it, till I saw it was you...and realized you trolled me good! I thought someone slipped through the pit and landed in here!

Props to you, sir

Best,

Sean
#34
Quote by Hail
when it doesn't sound good in context


one of the best answers I have ever heard!!!

duh...


people need to learn how to listen...it's 3/4 of the musical experience.
#35
Quote by mr-curley

You should really understand, or at least be able to recognise by hearing it, the function of dominant chords in order to use them as substitutions.


what do you mean about the function of the dominant?
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#36
Quote by sysD
what do you mean about the function of the dominant?

All tonal harmony have a function: tonic, subdominant, dominant.

Dominant serves to lead to a tonic.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#37
Quote by Sean0913
LOL - epic!

That made my day. When I read it I was about to go off on the person who wrote it, till I saw it was you...and realized you trolled me good! I thought someone slipped through the pit and landed in here!

Props to you, sir

Best,

Sean

I was in two minds about it tbh.... but thought wtf, I don't usually troll . Then after Xiaoxi's first post I felt it was 100% justified lol.