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#1
So I've been skimming through the music theory FAQ and looking at modal pentatonics to spice up my playing, but I'm not entirely sure if what I'm playing is what I think I'm playing.
It'll make more sense from this example.

Let's say I'm playing E minor pentatonic.
(E G A B D E)
Now let's say that I want to start playing in a mixolydian mode(Not A Mixolydian specifically). I know that for mixolydian modes I would want to flat the 7th in relation to the major scale. But I'm playing E minor pentatonic, so would I want to flat the D because its the 7th, or raise the G because it's the third and I'm in the Aeolian mode?

Basically, if I'm soloing in X Minor Pentatonic, I'm just soloing in X Aeolian mode minus the 2 and 6? And if that is true I need to look to X Minor's relative major to determine what notes to flat/raise when moving into a different modal setting?

Sorry if this seems really convoluted.
#4
Quote by Chandleezy
Let's say I'm playing E minor pentatonic.
(E G A B D E)
Now let's say that I want to start playing in a mixolydian mode(Not A Mixolydian specifically). I know that for mixolydian modes I would want to flat the 7th in relation to the major scale. But I'm playing E minor pentatonic, so would I want to flat the D because its the 7th, or raise the G because it's the third and I'm in the Aeolian mode?

You have it, dude. Leave the D where it is, and raise the G to G sharp. That'll be E Mixolydian Pentatonic.

It's a hemitonic scale. As opposed to the minor pentatonic which is anhemitonic.
#5
Quote by AlanHB
What do you know about keys?


I'm not really sure what you are asking.
I know the sharps/flats of really common keys in band music, and I (thought) I knew about relative majors/minors but I came here asking for clarification. One thing I've never turned my full attention to however is the Circle of Fifths. Would some knowledge of that clear things up for me?
#6
Quote by Chandleezy
I'm not really sure what you are asking.
I know the sharps/flats of really common keys in band music, and I (thought) I knew about relative majors/minors but I came here asking for clarification. One thing I've never turned my full attention to however is the Circle of Fifths. Would some knowledge of that clear things up for me?


Well a song is either in a key or a mode. Alternatively you can use accidentals to share the same notes as a scale derived from a mode.

Can you identify the key of a song?

Also, what do you think modes are? If you answer with "if I'm in C major and start on D" you're on the wrong track.
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#7
Quote by AlanHB
Well a song is either in a key or a mode. Alternatively you can use accidentals to share the same notes as a scale derived from a mode.

Can you identify the key of a song?

Also, what do you think modes are? If you answer with "if I'm in C major and start on D" you're on the wrong track.


I was under the impression that modes were kind of like "embellishments" on a key that change the sound of it. I hadn't really thought of it like a song is either only in a mode or a key honestly.
#8
Quote by Chandleezy
I was under the impression that modes were kind of like "embellishments" on a key that change the sound of it.

No, they're quite different. Leave modes alone until you've got a solid understanding of major scale harmony; they're not really important at all to be honest.
#9
The only thing worse than a mode thread is a pentatonic mode thread.

TS, learn about keys and tonal harmony.
#10
Quote by Chandleezy
I was under the impression that modes were kind of like "embellishments" on a key that change the sound of it. I hadn't really thought of it like a song is either only in a mode or a key honestly.

those are accidentals.
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#11
Quote by AlanHB
If you answer with "if I'm in C major and start on D" you're on the wrong track.


Id say that's the right track. By starting on D you set the tonality at D, and by playing the notes in the scale of C major, you're playing dorian.

You have it, dude. Leave the D where it is, and raise the G to G sharp. That'll be E Mixolydian Pentatonic. It's a hemitonic scale. As opposed to the minor pentatonic which is anhemitonic.


This is right. I've found the minor (and major) pentatonic and mixolydian pentatonic to be the 2 most useful pentatonic scales.

I was under the impression that modes were kind of like "embellishments" on a key that change the sound of it. I hadn't really thought of it like a song is either only in a mode or a key honestly.


Yea you can think of modes as keys. Every song (or part of a song) (except atonal music... ) has a home or base frequency (note) called the "tonic", and the key or mode or scale is just the other notes in the song.

I'm not really sure what you are asking. I know the sharps/flats of really common keys in band music, and I (thought) I knew about relative majors/minors but I came here asking for clarification. One thing I've never turned my full attention to however is the Circle of Fifths. Would some knowledge of that clear things up for me?


The circle of fifths shows the relationship between keys. So if you're into interesting harmonies such as mixing E minor with E mixolydian, the circle of fifths would show you how harmonically distant these are. For example, E minor is the relative minor (6th mode) of G and E mixolydian is the fifth mode of A. SO you look at your circle of fifths and count G-(1)-D-(2)-A, you're moving 2 keys away. A pretty small leap (the max is 6). This also means that 2 of the notes are raised as you moved between these two scales, the two immediately below each of the keys you moved to to get to A, C->C# (moving to D), and G->G# (moving to A).
#12
Quote by bouttimeijoined
Id say that's the right track. By starting on D you set the tonality at D, and by playing the notes in the scale of C major, you're playing dorian.

Except that if you're in C major, beginning a lick on D doesn't "set the tonality at D".
#13
Quote by :-D
Except that if you're in C major, beginning a lick on D doesn't "set the tonality at D".


Depends what you mean by "in C major". I take it to mean "in the scale of", you take it to mean "in the key of" or "while playing the chord of".

"In the scale of" is a more appropirate interpretation because it's easy for a guitarist to learn one scale, say the major scale, and write a song in a different mode by setting the tonality on a different note, rather than learning 7 different scales (the modes) which are all actually, the same set of intervals.
#14
Quote by bouttimeijoined
Id say that's the right track. By starting on D you set the tonality at D, and by playing the notes in the scale of C major, you're playing dorian.


By starting on D you are.....starting on D. That's as far as that argument goes.

To "set the tonality", well that's made with reference to the chord progression usually, which will dictate where the "tonality" will be "set".

Consider A minor and C major. Both have the same notes. So if I have a song in the key of C major (eg. C - F - G) and I improvise over the song starting on the A note, does the song become minor?
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#15
Quote by bouttimeijoined
"In the scale of" is a more appropirate interpretation because it's easy for a guitarist to learn one scale, say the major scale, and write a song in a different mode by setting the tonality on a different note, rather than learning 7 different scales (the
modes) which are all actually, the same set of intervals.

The more general interpretation is that "in" refers to the harmonic setting, but it's pointless to argue semantics.

If someone is learning the modes as a series of 7 different scales, they're doing it wrong.
#16
Quote by AlanHB
By starting on D you are.....starting on D. That's as far as that argument goes.

To "set the tonality", well that's made with reference to the chord progression usually, which will dictate where the "tonality" will be "set".

Consider A minor and C major. Both have the same notes. So if I have a song in the key of C major (eg. C - F - G) and I improvise over the song starting on the A note, does the song become minor?


You can make it become minor......

(adding sparks to the fire)

But, no.
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#17
Quote by vampirelazarus
You can make it become minor......


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#18
Quote by AlanHB
Don't reveal the super special secret!


*hides The Secret*

What secret?
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#19
Quote by bouttimeijoined
Id say that's the right track. By starting on D you set the tonality at D, and by playing the notes in the scale of C major, you're playing dorian.

This is right. I've found the minor (and major) pentatonic and mixolydian pentatonic to be the 2 most useful pentatonic scales.

Yea you can think of modes as keys. Every song (or part of a song) (except atonal music... ) has a home or base frequency (note) called the "tonic", and the key or mode or scale is just the other notes in the song.

The circle of fifths shows the relationship between keys. So if you're into interesting harmonies such as mixing E minor with E mixolydian, the circle of fifths would show you how harmonically distant these are. For example, E minor is the relative minor (6th mode) of G and E mixolydian is the fifth mode of A. SO you look at your circle of fifths and count G-(1)-D-(2)-A, you're moving 2 keys away. A pretty small leap (the max is 6). This also means that 2 of the notes are raised as you moved between these two scales, the two immediately below each of the keys you moved to to get to A, C->C# (moving to D), and G->G# (moving to A).



Do post up an actual example of you doing this, and demonstrate this and make the connection as to why it's "modal".

Best,

Sean
#20
Just for you, Sean.
Forgive me on the garbage-level recording quality, this was recorded in a large cement-walled basement via placing a iphone at the top of the stairs...

Now here's how the song progresses through different modes/keys with the corresponding major key in brackets.

Verse:
A Dorian (G)
E Dorian (D)
(C Lydian -> D Mixolydian)x2 -> E Aeolian (G [all])

Chorus:
E Ionian (E)

Bridge:
F# Mixolydian (B) [for a long time...]
A Lydian (E) -> F# Mixolydian (B)
A Lydian -> D Mixolydian x2 (E)
(C Lydian -> D Mixolydian)x2 -> E Aeolian (G [all])

Song structure : VVCVVCBC

A few different kinds of modulation (switching between keys) are used here.
The verse is easy, it just uses the classic ii -> V in G then in D, then hits the IV in G to resolve to E minor. But because it's not actually E minor, it's E5, we can somewhat smoothly play the chorus right after starting on the E major chord. That one's called parallel key modulation (from key of X minor to X major). Then we randomly start the F# mixolydian groove since it sounds fun and is in fact only one key away. After some grooving on that, we throw in the Amaj7add9 (is that the right name?) to shift us back into E, and then use the A-B progression followed by the C-D as a fun way to do that parallel key thing again from E major to E minor, which works nicely here since the B major chord is the III7 in the key of G (resolves toward E minor too).

I guess that doesn't really explain how it's modal, but I think you get the idea. You just have to sort of hear where the tonality is. Like in the bridge, the bass is just playing that F# over and over, so I'm pretty sure that's F# mixolydian.

I'll make a circle of fifths chart only if you REALLY want me to...
#21
you do know modes have nothing to do with keys right
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#22
Quote by Hail
you do know modes have nothing to do with keys right


pretty sure they're related. also pretty sure I grasp that relationship.
#23
Quote by bouttimeijoined
pretty sure they're related. also pretty sure I grasp that relationship.


uhhh

no

they're really not

at all

modes do not exist in tonal music. keys imply tonal music. i guess theoretically you can say 'key of e mixolydian' or something, not sure on the semantics of that, but that just sounds amazingly awkward to me.

comparing g major to a dorian: the key signature has the same number of bs or #s, but past that, they're completely different.
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#24
Quote by bouttimeijoined
pretty sure they're related. also pretty sure I grasp that relationship.


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#25
Quote by bouttimeijoined
Just for you, Sean. Forgive me on the garbage-level recording quality, this was recorded in a large cement-walled basement via placing a iphone at the top of the stairs...

Now here's how the song progresses through different modes/keys with the corresponding major key in brackets.


For being a good sport I'll analyse your song. For a start I'll say that you are very good with modulating, however unfortunately that song has no modal parts. You are free to argue back, but this is how I've taken your song.

Verse

G - D vamp (key of D major)

It's an I - V cadence. Doesn't get much more major than that.

D - A vamp then D - D# - E (key of A major)

Slightly different, at first you think it's going to be another I - V vamp (which would actually put the entire verse in D major, however the chromatic step up to E firmly creates the A major as the tonic).

As for your suggestion that they're in dorian, nah that's way off the mark. You even emphasis the major 3rds to the point that if they were in a mode (they're not) it wouldn't be in a mode which has a minor 3rd (like dorian).

Chorus


Key of E major. As a future note, ionian/aeolian have been largely eradicated. It would be hard to argue that "anything" could be in either of those. However the firm resolution to the E major chord is a defining feature of a song in a key, as opposed to that in a mode.

Bridge

F# major vamp/key for keyboard driven riff. It's just an F# chord, key of F major. It goes for ages and ages until

at 4:57

There's chords which go like:

F# - E x 2

A - F# x 2

A - B x 2

All the bridge is in the key of F# major.

The E and A chords are derived from the parallel minor. Extremely common.

Then chromatically stepping up to D - D# - E a la the verse riff. Arguably this short part could be in A major as you used it to define that key the first two times you modulated to it.
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#26
@bouttimeijoined: What dog you got, man? I think it's trying to tell you something...
Last edited by mdc at Jan 20, 2012,
#27
I don't understand why people who barely grasp the basics of music theory are always so goddamn arrogant they think it's impossible that they're wrong.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#29
OK, I could see where you might call that ii V "A Dorian" since it can finsh on the Am7 (even though I feel it wants to pull to the I, you honor the tonality and make it possible to end on the Am7, so I'll give you that. We can call that a 2 chord Dorian Vamp.

Next, I hear a V I at 000:17 - that's A Major, am I missing something? No Mode.

At 00:27 I hear a V I in G - G Major, no mode.

at 00:36 I hear V I in D - No Mode...

I'm just hearing cycling, no Modes. What am I Missing, and, can you post your chord chart, cause I'm playing right along with this, and aside from the first part Im not hearing modal anywhere. I just hear random cycling, and as you said - modulations with a repeated theme.

Can you annotate where on the recording ie. at 00:59 I play this because the chords are x y and z.

By the way props for at least having the stones to post, because you are the only person in the 3 year,s that I've been here that's even tried to step up and respond to the challenge.

And no, that wouldn't be an A Maj7 add 9 chord, because you have a 7th. When you have the 7th you don't add anything, it's a straight Major 9th, no "add" needed.

And you know what, none of this is really to discredit you, but as I see it by standing up and us exploring it this way, lots of people now have a real world opportunity to learn what is and isn't modal, which I think will help a lot of people by looking at a real world example. So What by Miles Davis, is Modal, The verse on Moondance is Modal, etc.

So, lots of respect for even trying to answer the call. If you could annotate where in the music you feel the changes are happening, I could better hear and listen for them, because all I'm hearing are V I's cycling and modulating.

Best,

Sean
#30
OP, this isnt actually modal playing, but if you are playing something in E you can use F# minor pentatonic over it too and it gives a slightly mixolydian sound to it. works well in fusion type stuff or if you were vamping over an E7 or E9 type of thing. it works because mixolydian works over a dominant chord and so does the minor pentatonic (thats why you use it in blues). you can also use the B minor pentatonic in most cases as well (slightly dorian sounding or mixolydian sounding, could be either really), and if you are in E minor you can use the A minor pentatonic shapes and they will work as well.

again, this isnt really modal playing, its just accidentals and in some cases like with using A minor pentatonic over E minor, you are still playing notes from E minor. you are just changing which notes you are taking out. same with using B minor too unless its over a dominant thing.

by the way, there are many types of pentatonic scales you can make. it all depends on the sound you want. like if you were over a drone E and playing frets 9 and 11 on each string, you can get a lydian pentatonic sound going. and you could use the same notes in different positions as well. pentatonic just means five notes so really it can be whatever you want.

honestly though, true modal playing almost never comes up in modern music, so i wouldnt worry about it much unless you want to make modal music. in which case i wouldnt focus on modal pentatonics before getting modes down in general.
#31
Thank you guys for taking the time to break this down. I'm going to start by just listing out the chords since there seems to be confusion (we'll blame the recording quality). Hopefully you can hear a bit better with the chords in front of you.

Verse:

Am7 D7 Am7 D7 Em7 A7 Em7 A7 C D C D C D D#5 E5.

Chorus:

E B A Aadd9 C#m E

Bridge:

F# ........... F# E D E F# E F# E F# A B (these are bass notes)
F# E F# E Amaj9 F#7 Amaj9 F#7 A5 B5 A5 B5 C D C D C D D#5 E5 (chords)

Now I think we are referring to different things here. I'm just talking about using modes in songs. It sounds like "modal music" is another concept associated with some compositional style. If this is not "modal music", that's fine, but I think I can demonstrate that modes have uses outside "modal music".

I'm telling you the melodies in the song were written (played) using the modes I listed out before. If you can see how the first section is A Dorian, surely you can see how the bridge is F# Mixolydian?

Also I like using the terms Ionian and Aeolian to make it a bit easier to distinguish between E minor (key) E minor (chord) and E minor (scale) for example. But I understand "Aeolian", or "Dorian", mean more to you than just a set of notes (scale).

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#32
Quote by bouttimeijoined
If this is not "modal music", that's fine, but I think I can demonstrate that modes have uses outside "modal music".


Yep, it's called using accidentals dude. So you say "I'm using dorian" but it's actually a minor scale with a major 6. That's fine, it's not modal, it's in a key.

Also I'm apprehensive to consider your chords as the correct ones, considering both Sean and I identified them as something else......I mean, I know that's what you say the chords are, but what's the chances of two other people, both experienced in identifying chord structures, to identify it as something else?
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#33
Quote by bouttimeijoined
We decided the dog bark solo is a keeper.

That's not what I asked. I need to know dammit!
#34
Quote by AlanHB

Also I'm apprehensive to consider your chords as the correct ones, considering both Sean and I identified them as something else......I mean, I know that's what you say the chords are, but what's the chances of two other people, both experienced in identifying chord structures, to identify it as something else?



Yeah Alan, but....what do we know??

But Alan's right meaning that...so am I and the rest of the people here. What you call Modal, is simply using pitch equivalents to things that we would say are modal, if the context were modal. This is important because now, its just a name of the scale. You can therefore call Mixolydain "This scale I named Charlie" and have the exact same effect. Why?

Because of FUNCTION. Every one of these has either a Major or minor function only. The outside notes, aren't doing anything other than acting as outside notes and color tones. Functionally your keys are cycling and modulating and you're doing nothing but playing in Minor or Major keys all day long.

So when you say "I'm using modes..."no, you really aren't, youre playing the pitch equivalent of these patterns you know by a "modal name" and getting some cool outside sounds. So in a nutshell you're right, there are only a few instances most people can play and have it truly be made modal, and its all governed by the background chords or drone, and the tonal resolution, and to strategic ideas used to maintain the tonal center, such as the use of a drone/pedal or characteristic notes within special chords to augment that tonality and enhance the resolution strength.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jan 21, 2012,
#35
Quote by AlanHB
Yep, it's called using accidentals dude. So you say "I'm using dorian" but it's actually a minor scale with a major 6. That's fine, it's not modal, it's in a key.


I think that's silly. So if you had a song that was just, for the sake of argument, Am7 and D7 alternating, you would write out the notation with no key signature, and every time an F showed up, you'd put a # next to it? I would include the F# in the key signature, because in the song the F#s sound more in key than Fs because the song is in A dorian. Now I've never formally studied music, but I've always thought of accidentals as for when you play a note that's out of key ("outside"). Now if in your system the song is always going to be in the key of the chord it resolves to, for music that I've been (perhaps mistakenly) calling modal, where it resolves to a chord other than the I or vi, like the one in question here, you're going to have a flood of accidentals across the page on notes that sound in key.

For all intents and purposes, it's easier to say this song is in A dorian, than A minor with a major 6th. To give a better example, I have a song I would say is in E phrygian dominant, the chords are basically E, Dm, and Fdim. I if understand correctly, you would say this song is in E major, with a flat second, minor sixth, and flat seventh - and have #s and bs scattered all over the page. I think I prefer my system.

Quote by AlanHB
Also I'm apprehensive to consider your chords as the correct ones, considering both Sean and I identified them as something else......I mean, I know that's what you say the chords are, but what's the chances of two other people, both experienced in identifying chord structures, to identify it as something else?

That's a fair comment, except for the fact that you both identified it as different things.

G - D vamp (key of D major)
It's an I - V cadence. Doesn't get much more major than that.
D - A vamp then D - D# - E (key of A major)

We can call that a 2 chord Dorian Vamp.
Next, I hear a V I at 000:17 - that's A Major, am I missing something? No Mode.
At 00:27 I hear a V I in G - G Major, no mode. at 00:36 I hear V I in D - No Mode...

?
But Alan's right meaning that...so am I and the rest of the people here. What you call Modal, is simply using pitch equivalents to things that we would say are modal, if the context were modal. This is important because now, its just a name of the scale. You can therefore call Mixolydain "This scale I named Charlie" and have the exact same effect. Why?

Because of FUNCTION. Every one of these has either a Major or minor function only. The outside notes, aren't doing anything other than acting as outside notes and color tones. Functionally your keys are cycling and modulating and you're doing nothing but playing in Minor or Major keys all day long.


It would be helpful if you could direct me to a source that explains what a "modal context" is more clearly, so I can see where you're coming from. I understand accidentals acting as outside notes and color tones, but take the bridge in my song, where the tonal center is (hopefully) clearly F#, but the riff uses the natural E very heavily. Sure you can say that this part is in F# major and the E is just a color tone, but I would say the part is in F# mixolydian because the F natural, which is actually part of the F# major scale, would give a much more "outside" sound in this context.

So when you say "I'm using modes..."no, you really aren't, youre playing the pitch equivalent of these patterns you know by a "modal name" and getting some cool outside sounds. So in a nutshell you're right, there are only a few instances most people can play and have it truly be made modal, and its all governed by the background chords or drone, and the tonal resolution, and to strategic ideas used to maintain the tonal center, such as the use of a drone/pedal or characteristic notes within special chords to augment that tonality and enhance the resolution strength.

Again we seem to have different interpretations of what modes are. I just think of them as scales, and it works for me. And every definition I can find of "musical mode" seems to validate that thinking. I would like to understand more about this "modal music" concept, and how it differs from, I guess, regular major/minor music.
Last edited by bouttimeijoined at Jan 21, 2012,
#37
If you put a sharp in the key signature, your not in A Dorian, your in G major. Yes A Dorian is in G major, but your key signature is G Major.

edit: Although that little two chord vamp your doing could be in A dorian, since thats where its "resolving"

edit2: my limited understanding of modes is a lil' off....
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Last edited by vampirelazarus at Jan 21, 2012,
#38
Quote by bouttimeijoined
I think that's silly. So if you had a song that was just, for the sake of argument, Am7 and D7 alternating, you would write out the notation with no key signature, and every time an F showed up, you'd put a # next to it? I would include the F# in the key signature, because in the song the F#s sound more in key than Fs because the song is in A dorian.


If the song purely consisted of those two chords, it would be in A dorian, and the key signature would accommodate for this. This isn't the case with your song though.


Now I've never formally studied music, but I've always thought of accidentals as for when you play a note that's out of key ("outside")./QUOTE]

Yep, so we've taken your song, identified it as modulating between different major keys, and you use a scale derived from a mode over it. Every note you use outside the key is an accidental. You can actually hear accidentals with enough training, and can identify if they sit in the piece or not.


Quote by bouttimeijoined
Now if in your system the song is always going to be in the key of the chord it resolves to, for music that I've been (perhaps mistakenly) calling modal, where it resolves to a chord other than the I or vi, like the one in question here, you're going to have a flood of accidentals across the page on notes that sound in key.


A progression, modal or in a key, will ALWAYS resolve to the i or I. As for a "flood" of accidentals, the amount is up to you. I wouldn't expect them to sound in-key though, as they're not.


Quote by bouttimeijoined
For all intents and purposes, it's easier to say this song is in A dorian, than A minor with a major 6th. To give a better example, I have a song I would say is in E phrygian dominant, the chords are basically E, Dm, and Fdim. I if understand correctly, you would say this song is in E major, with a flat second, minor sixth, and flat seventh - and have #s and bs scattered all over the page. I think I prefer my system.


That two vamp progression Am - D7, that IS in dorian. Your song, it's in various major keys. Accidentals occur if you play an out-of-key note, you don't say that a song is in "major with accidentals", it's just "major".

As for those chords, why not make a song out of them and tell us where it resolves?


Quote by bouttimeijoined
That's a fair comment, except for the fact that you both identified it as different things.


Although we wrote them out differently, we're still identifying modulation between D major and A major. I'm sure we're still identifying the same chords, which don't co-incide with yours.

We have a modes sticky up the top of this forum which can help you understand. For me a defining feature is that keys resolve very strongly to their tonic, whilst a mode has a more "floaty" feeling about it.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#39
Satriani is a guy who uses modes well. He usually just plays over a single chord or pedal tone i believe.
#40
Quote by AlanHB
If the song purely consisted of those two chords, it would be in A dorian, and the key signature would accommodate for this. This isn't the case with your song though.

My song is more complex because it plays the same thing in E dorian and then resolves to E minor via C and D + the chromatic D#. Come to think of it, I'm not sure how I'd write out the time sig, probably change it 3 times every verse. Chorus is entirely in the key of E though.

Quote by AlanHB
A progression, modal or in a key, will ALWAYS resolve to the i or I. As for a "flood" of accidentals, the amount is up to you. I wouldn't expect them to sound in-key though, as they're not.

That two vamp progression Am - D7, that IS in dorian. Your song, it's in various major keys. Accidentals occur if you play an out-of-key note, you don't say that a song is in "major with accidentals", it's just "major".

As for those chords, why not make a song out of them and tell us where it resolves?


Well I did and I'm telling you it resolves to the E, so you'd say the E is the I chord and the song is full of "accidentals" that sound in key. I still think it's silly to say a song is in, say F# major, when the melody never touches the F and hits the E all the time. Goes to what I was saying before about the context meaning the F would sound "outside" and "out-of-key" whereas the E (which you would call accidental) sounds perfectly fitting.

The Am7 - D7 "dorian vamp" resolves to the Am7, the ii. This is what I call modal, resolving to something other than the I or vi. That's actually what gives it the "floaty" feeling you mention.

Quote by AlanHB
Although we wrote them out differently, we're still identifying modulation between D major and A major. I'm sure we're still identifying the same chords, which don't co-incide with yours.

I'm telling you those are the chords, I have a more clear version of the verse I'll post up for you later.
Quote by AlanHB
We have a modes sticky up the top of this forum which can help you understand. For me a defining feature is that keys resolve very strongly to their tonic, whilst a mode has a more "floaty" feeling about it.

You don't hear the "floaty" at any point in my song? Not even the bridge? I'll take a look at the sticky, thanks.
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