#1
I have a Marshall head and 410 cab but it's just too damn big for pub gigs, jam nights, etc.

But I can't decide if the best thing to supplement it would be a MBC115, which would probably give me the best flexibility overall, or just get a smaller 210 of some sort... shame Marshall don't do one.

I don't really want to get a combo since I have the head with a sound I like.

What's UG's bass player's advice here?

Cheers!
#2
Try 2 similar 210 and 115 cabs out side by side. It's all down to preference. If it were me, I'd be all over the 115, but a lot of people prefer a 210. 210s aren't much less portable than a 115 either, it's all really about sound.
#3
Personally, I would add a 2x10. A 1x15 could potentially cause phase issues.
Current Gear:

Warwick Thumb BO 4
Musicman "StatusRay" Stingray 4 - Carbon Fibre Neck
Musicman Stingray 5 HH
Sadowsky MV4 Jazz

Markbass LittleMark II
AccuGroove Tri12l
Sansamp VT Bass
Line6 BassPodXT Live

CHECK OUT MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
#4
If you can afford it go mark bass they are incredibly small, with the biggest sound in the entire world, although very expensive. Next time your in guitar center or a guitar store try it out, I didnt believe it either.
#5
Quote by Killerfridge
Personally, I would add a 2x10. A 1x15 could potentially cause phase issues.


I think he means add a 2x10 to his arsenal, but not to use in conjunction but stand alone from his 4x10.

I assume since you said pub without a novelty ring to it, you're British. I can't say much because everything I was recommended for this doesn't translate well over to pounds from dollars (Carvin etc.)

What watts and ohms do you needs? Also a DI would make a competent complete rig.
#6
Whichever you get, invest $30 (or if you are indeed in the UK, whatever that exchanges to in pounds)to buy, or less to build a tilt-back floor stand to go with it. You'll probably notice too much of a volume drop from the 4*10 just because everything is so low to the ground. Either type of cab can definitely get you enough stage volume and fill a small bar, the tilt-back will give you an accurate listen so that you don't overcompensate in volume when transitioning from the 4*10.
#7
Cheers guys! To pick up some points...

Yeah, I'm British.

My head (MB450H) outputs at 4 or 2 ohms, my 410 cabinet is 300W at 4.

Markbass is out of my price range for now. That's to say, I don't want to have to lie - again - to the wife about how much I've spent on gear.

I have to admit that having the full stack does appeal, it would sound (and look!) awesome. But I'm really wanting to give myself flexibility across all venue sizes - I generally play town hall type places with the band, but on occasion smaller venues such as pubs and bars. We've also played outside, when the 4x10 was great but we were also PA'd up anyway.

But I think having a separate 2x10 might be an easier option. Good shout about the floor-tilt if I do go that way.

Think I'll have to pop into a shop at the weekend and have a play.
#8
Quote by askrere
I think he means add a 2x10 to his arsenal, but not to use in conjunction but stand alone from his 4x10.

I assume since you said pub without a novelty ring to it, you're British. I can't say much because everything I was recommended for this doesn't translate well over to pounds from dollars (Carvin etc.)

What watts and ohms do you needs? Also a DI would make a competent complete rig.


Ahh, I understand now.

If Yamaha were still making their 'S' series cabinets, I would say without hesitation to grab one of them. Unfortunately they aren't, and they aren't exactly common second hand.

Whereabouts in the UK are you based?
Current Gear:

Warwick Thumb BO 4
Musicman "StatusRay" Stingray 4 - Carbon Fibre Neck
Musicman Stingray 5 HH
Sadowsky MV4 Jazz

Markbass LittleMark II
AccuGroove Tri12l
Sansamp VT Bass
Line6 BassPodXT Live

CHECK OUT MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
#10
I have a 2x10 and a 15, either will fill just about any pub on it's own with plenty in reserve. there really is no point in carrying anything bigger unless you are playing outdoors.
#11
Quote by Andsome
I'm near Banbury.


Fantastic - my best advice would be to go up to Bass Direct in Warwick, and just try everything. Mark is a great guy, and will no doubt be able to give better advice than us

I don't know what your budget is, but this might be a very good one to try:

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/S_H_EBS_300.html
Current Gear:

Warwick Thumb BO 4
Musicman "StatusRay" Stingray 4 - Carbon Fibre Neck
Musicman Stingray 5 HH
Sadowsky MV4 Jazz

Markbass LittleMark II
AccuGroove Tri12l
Sansamp VT Bass
Line6 BassPodXT Live

CHECK OUT MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
#13
Going and playing some cabs is definitely the best way to get a feel for them. However, don't forget that what sounds good by itself and in the mix are two very different things.

You could check out the Barefaced cabs. Handmade in the UK, and they're meant to be some of the best you can get. They're super lightweight and compact to boot (if you look at something like the Midget or Compact).
#14
Quote by Killerfridge
Personally, I would add a 2x10. A 1x15 could potentially cause phase issues.

So why was the 1x15 + 4x10 the favourite Trace Elliot configuration?
Ashdown do a 1x15 + 2x10 in trhe same enclosure
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#15
Quote by John Swift
So why was the 1x15 + 4x10 the favourite Trace Elliot configuration?
Ashdown do a 1x15 + 2x10 in trhe same enclosure


Because people buy it. Countless brands sell 2x10 speaker enclosures designed to be positioned horizontally, despite the fact that vertical alignment actually yields better results. They've perpetuated all this stuff about the best cabinet setups because its profitable for them, not because it's true. "Modular" set-ups which use speakers of different sizes have to be very carefully designed to avoid bad phase issues so that they can work well together, and I highly doubt that's something you're likely to find on bottom of the line Marshall stuff.
#16
Quote by Ziphoblat
Because people buy it. Countless brands sell 2x10 speaker enclosures designed to be positioned horizontally, despite the fact that vertical alignment actually yields better results. They've perpetuated all this stuff about the best cabinet setups because its profitable for them, not because it's true. "Modular" set-ups which use speakers of different sizes have to be very carefully designed to avoid bad phase issues so that they can work well together, and I highly doubt that's something you're likely to find on bottom of the line Marshall stuff.


Yup, this. Talk to guys like BFM - companies do these combinations because people buy them. The thought process goes something like this "Little speakers for the high sounds, big speakers for the lows" even though speaker size does not necessarily dictate how the cabinet will sound.
Current Gear:

Warwick Thumb BO 4
Musicman "StatusRay" Stingray 4 - Carbon Fibre Neck
Musicman Stingray 5 HH
Sadowsky MV4 Jazz

Markbass LittleMark II
AccuGroove Tri12l
Sansamp VT Bass
Line6 BassPodXT Live

CHECK OUT MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
#17
Quote by Killerfridge
Yup, this. Talk to guys like BFM - companies do these combinations because people buy them. The thought process goes something like this "Little speakers for the high sounds, big speakers for the lows" even though speaker size does not necessarily dictate how the cabinet will sound.


It seems that your both implying that people who buy multi size speaker setups have no ear for what they're doing ie bass playing.
I've designed, used and built multi size speaker systems for well over 30 years for myslef but mostly for other bands/musicians to satisfactory effect. Obviously Bi/Triamping is the most versatile and efficient through an active crossover but not essential to reach satisfactory results
As Ken Dibble said in the 70s in his 'International Musician' loudspeaker reviews, you can have all the thoery and specs you want but at the end of the day it's all down to what comes out of the front. After his reports on Gauss and Altec speakers very little was heard of them from then on, both had umpteen thousand £/$ tooled chassis but failed to perform well compared to speakers costing much less.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#18
No, that's not what I'm trying to imply. Multi size speaker systems can work great, and I agree, what comes out the front end is all that matters. You have taken my initial comment, and taken it way out of context.

Adding a 1x15 to a 2x10 can cause phase issues. It doesn't mean that it will. To quote Bill Fitzmaurice

Quote by Bill Fitzmaurice
Power ratings are meaningless. What matters is impedance, displacement and phase response. For equal power into both cabs they must be the same impedance. For equal ability to use that power both cabs must have the same driver displacement. For the same phase response they must be identical drivers. With identical cabs you get all of the above, with mis-matched cabs the best you're likley to realize is equal impedance.
Current Gear:

Warwick Thumb BO 4
Musicman "StatusRay" Stingray 4 - Carbon Fibre Neck
Musicman Stingray 5 HH
Sadowsky MV4 Jazz

Markbass LittleMark II
AccuGroove Tri12l
Sansamp VT Bass
Line6 BassPodXT Live

CHECK OUT MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
#19
Quote by Ziphoblat
Going and playing some cabs is definitely the best way to get a feel for them. However, don't forget that what sounds good by itself and in the mix are two very different things.

You could check out the Barefaced cabs. Handmade in the UK, and they're meant to be some of the best you can get. They're super lightweight and compact to boot (if you look at something like the Midget or Compact).

And very expensive too, I've been building lightweight 12mm ply 1x15" Neo loaded cabs for some years now and with similar dimensions as the 1x15 shown for around than half that price.
One thing that I do agree with them is:-
Newsflash! Almost every rule of thumb you've ever heard about cabs is wrong.
You build to the sound not the Lab specs.
As well as building I still gig mostly with an Eminence 15" 450 watt Neo Kappalite in a 12mm plywood cab which handles the bottom 'B' on my G&L L2500 very well.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
Last edited by John Swift at Jan 27, 2012,
#20
Quote by Killerfridge
No, that's not what I'm trying to imply. Multi size speaker systems can work great, and I agree, what comes out the front end is all that matters. You have taken my initial comment, and taken it way out of context.

Adding a 1x15 to a 2x10 can cause phase issues. It doesn't mean that it will. To quote Bill Fitzmaurice


Bill fitzmaurice has designed some nice enclosures but they were best suited when complex enclosure designs were needed to get the best out of the low (by todays standards) power handling speakers of the day.
You don't see massive JBL 4560s/4520s on concerts these days due to the advancement in the actual speaker designs that allow for much more power handling and higher sensitivity (accross the audio specrtum instead of the old 1K @ 1watt @ 1 metre) than those of not too long ago.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#21
Barefaced cabs are expensive, yes. But I believe in this case you get what you pay for, and when you can easily pay the same amount or more for most other brands (Aguilar, Ampeg, EBS etc etc) which don't really come close. Of course - it depends on what you want. I don't think you can really reduce the amazing rep that Barefaced has down to their light weight, it's that in conjunction with the sound, and the sound is what much of the work has gone into.

I'm not necessarily stating that phase issues are a bad thing, but they are there. I think we've simply become accustomed to that kind of sound. If it works for an individual, that's fine. Myself, I'm more concerned with getting the most uncoloured sound possible, the sound I hear when I play direct through headphones in the studio is the sound I want to get out of my bass rig. I totally understand that the uncoloured thing doesn't work with everyone.

In regards to Barefaced, the Compact I've ordered should finally get here next week, so I'll be in a better place to pass judgement, but if everything I've read is correct (which of course it isn't always) I should be in for a treat.
#22
Quote by Ziphoblat
Barefaced cabs are expensive, yes. But I believe in this case you get what you pay for, and when you can easily pay the same amount or more for most other brands (Aguilar, Ampeg, EBS etc etc) which don't really come close. Of course - it depends on what you want. I don't think you can really reduce the amazing rep that Barefaced has down to their light weight, it's that in conjunction with the sound, and the sound is what much of the work has gone into.

I'm not necessarily stating that phase issues are a bad thing, but they are there. I think we've simply become accustomed to that kind of sound. If it works for an individual, that's fine. Myself, I'm more concerned with getting the most uncoloured sound possible, the sound I hear when I play direct through headphones in the studio is the sound I want to get out of my bass rig. I totally understand that the uncoloured thing doesn't work with everyone.

In regards to Barefaced, the Compact I've ordered should finally get here next week, so I'll be in a better place to pass judgement, but if everything I've read is correct (which of course it isn't always) I should be in for a treat.


How many barefaced cabs have you played through/tried/gigged? I always insist on 'try before buy'. I don't get sucked in by sales blurb, I've seen too much in 49 years of gigging.
Regarding speaker enclosures I found out many years ago just how much UK manufacturers were actualy paying for the louspeakers that went into nothing more than a wooden box, as a classic example one particular 2x12 cab had 2 £9.50 speakers in it yet the retail was £190, we were able to sell a pair for £190 and still make a good profit.
Soundwise I get the tone that the song requires along with the articulation and amp settings required to get the tone.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#23
Quote by John Swift
How many barefaced cabs have you played through/tried/gigged? I always insist on 'try before buy'. I don't get sucked in by sales blurb, I've seen too much in 49 years of gigging.
Regarding speaker enclosures I found out many years ago just how much UK manufacturers were actualy paying for the louspeakers that went into nothing more than a wooden box, as a classic example one particular 2x12 cab had 2 £9.50 speakers in it yet the retail was £190, we were able to sell a pair for £190 and still make a good profit.
Soundwise I get the tone that the song requires along with the articulation and amp settings required to get the tone.


I've had a brief try through one which was enough to assure me of the quality. There are plenty of people on basschat/talkbass with positive things to say about them. Barefaced have a return policy if you don't get on with the cab anyway, so that you can essentially 'try' it... and try it properly, at a gig, rather than hearing it by itself on a noisy shop floor. I'm fairly confident his designs go a lot further that. There's a lot of work been put into engineering those cabinets and making them as efficient as possible.
#24
Quote by Ziphoblat
I've had a brief try through one which was enough to assure me of the quality. There are plenty of people on basschat/talkbass with positive things to say about them. Barefaced have a return policy if you don't get on with the cab anyway, so that you can essentially 'try' it... and try it properly, at a gig, rather than hearing it by itself on a noisy shop floor. I'm fairly confident his designs go a lot further that. There's a lot of work been put into engineering those cabinets and making them as efficient as possible.


My bold blue= I've already said try before buy where I meant at a gig.

My bold red= Such as? Have you been on the factory floor watching the parts cut out on a CNC machine. Didn't know when wood machining and joinery became engineering.
I've also been offered work at two leading amp/enclosure manufacturers but I prefer to stick to building my own enclosures whilst my friend builds all valve/tube amps.

I also do a nice line in gun and guitar cases.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#25
Well that's exactly my point. There are so many companies that just like to shove a driver in a pretty looking box and call it a day, in which case of course there is no engineering. But then there are companies such as fEARful and Barefaced who acknowledge that the design of the enclosure and placement of speakers etc is at least as important as the driver you stick inside, and have done all the maths. Not to mention all the work that's gone into the crossovers etc.
#26
Quote by Ziphoblat
Well that's exactly my point. There are so many companies that just like to shove a driver in a pretty looking box and call it a day, in which case of course there is no engineering. But then there are companies such as fEARful and Barefaced who acknowledge that the design of the enclosure and placement of speakers etc is at least as important as the driver you stick inside, and have done all the maths. Not to mention all the work that's gone into the crossovers etc.

There are computer programmes available for enclosure design although I prefer to design and tune my own cabs.
It is also true that quite a few manufacturers aim at getting the maximum cuts out of an 8x4 sheet of Ply/MDF and in doing so often compramise on the actual cab design/efficiency.
Turbosound cabs were usualy quite an elaborate design but once again they started out when speakers were low in handling power compared to todays drivers.
Altec 'Voice of the Theatre' cabs (often found behind cinema screens) were quite elaborate in design and construction but now belong to a bygone age as the speakers they used would at best handle 100 watts.
Due to the higher power handling of todays loudspeakers there is less need for the old elaborate cab designs.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
Last edited by John Swift at Jan 28, 2012,
#27
Honestly, I'd go with 4X10 or 2X10 setup with the 1X15, so just switch between the 4 and 2 depending on how much power you need for the gig.
Crackers! Crackers! But no squeezy cheese!! You've broken my secret elbow!!!
#28
Quote by iplaydabass
Honestly, I'd go with 4X10 or 2X10 setup with the 1X15, so just switch between the 4 and 2 depending on how much power you need for the gig.

Agree 100%
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn