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#1
Lately I've been taking half a 5 hour energy shot before both portions of my workout (weight room for an hour or so, swim for 30-45 minutes). I notice a huge difference in how efficient I am when I take caffine as opposed to when I don't. I haven't had any internal problems with it (irregular heart beat, etc). Does anyone know of any long term effects other than dependence on caffine/high tolerance?

Or, if you can suggest a better alternative, I am all ears.
#4
Most bodybuilders will recommend caffeine before a workout (if not in the evening). That's basically the main ingredient in 90% of those pre-workout supplements either way.

All about lots of Publix cold green tea with ginseng and honey. Shit is deeelish.
.
#5
It'll give you a lot of energy, but if you do it on a regular basis you're going to end up needing to have it all the time in order to not feel tired as balls.
#6
I don't know how building muscle through repetitious lifting/pulling/pushing works, but you should ideally do exercise moderately hydrated and with little to no food in your tummy. Hydrate 20 minutes before exercise.

I avoid food and water for 30 minutes after exercise and let my heart rate return to normal. Basically, be very conscious of your blood sugar levels. Most people don't keep notice of it, but it's one of the more obvious internal regulations to pay attention to.

The way I see it, humans didn't have access to all these nifty "pre-workout" and "pre-this" and "post-that" stuff until just a few short years ago. You don't NEED any of these. You're fine with just regular food and water...
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
Last edited by darkstar2466 at Jan 22, 2012,
#7
I prefer to dose up on some amphetamines to get me that extra energy for a good workout.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#8
I do it sometimes. You won't crash, if you're not too sensitive to caffeine. Caffeine preps fat lipids for metabolisation, so if fat-burning is your goal, it's a little bit of extra help. Caffeine also de-hydrates you, so if you do drink coffee before a workout, you'll have to up your hydration during your workout.


Quote by darkstar2466
I don't know how building muscle through repetitious lifting/pulling/pushing works, but you should ideally do exercise moderately hydrated and with little to no food in your tummy. Hydrate 20 minutes before exercise.

I avoid food and water for 30 minutes after exercise and let my heart rate return to normal. Basically, be very conscious of your blood sugar levels. Most people don't keep notice of it, but it's one of the more obvious internal regulations to pay attention to.

The way I see it, humans didn't have access to all these nifty "pre-workout" and "pre-this" and "post-that" stuff until just a few short years ago. You don't NEED any of these. You're fine with just regular food and water...


Bad advice. You need food before a workout to supply you with energy and vitamins during the workout. Try driving a car without petrol. It won't work. You should eat high-energy foods such as carbohydrates 30-90 minutes before a workout in order to fuel your body.

Oh, and resistance training builds mass through the tearing and breaking down of muscle, then its subsequent over-repair, thereby increasing muscle mass. Therefore, you need to consume high-protein foods in the 45 minutes after a workout in order to provide your body with something to repair your muscles. Your metabolism is upped after a workout aswell, and will stay up for a while afterwards.
❝Don't be afraid of death, but of an inadequate life❞
Bertolt Bretcht


Last edited by KirkMetallica at Jan 22, 2012,
#10
Caffiene can spur muscle wastage. I learnt that in PE Studies...
You should eat a high carb, balanced protein diet, and hydrate regularly before, during and after exercise. If you want to bulk up, eat a good diet aimed at doing so, don't rely on supplements (though protein shakes may help) or 'boosters' like caffiene (or steroids, just say no. Obviously.)y


A source i googled though, since it's been a while.
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/67/5/734.full
#11
Quote by KirkMetallica
Bad advice. You need food before a workout to supply you with energy and vitamins during the workout. Try driving a car without petrol. It won't work. You should eat high-energy foods such as carbohydrates 30-90 minutes before a workout in order to fuel your body.

Oh, and resistance training builds mass through the tearing and breaking down of muscle, then its subsequent over-repair, thereby increasing muscle mass. Therefore, you need to consume high-protein foods in the 45 minutes after a workout in order to provide your body with something to repair your muscles. Your metabolism is upped after a workout aswell, and will stay up for a while afterwards.


I've ran marathons with no food or water. They were in the mornings, the last meal being dinner around 9pm the night before. That's personal preference though. I guess most people need food and water before exercise.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#12
Quote by darkstar2466
I've ran marathons with no food or water. They were in the mornings, the last meal being dinner around 9pm the night before. That's personal preference though. I guess most people need food and water before exercise.


Doing exercise without food readily available to burn can cause the body to start using muscle to supply energy... which isn't good when you're trying to build muscle. But everyone's different so... yeah, it's more up to knowing how your own body reacts.
❝Don't be afraid of death, but of an inadequate life❞
Bertolt Bretcht


#13
Quote by KirkMetallica
Doing exercise without food readily available to burn can cause the body to start using muscle to supply energy... which isn't good when you're trying to build muscle. But everyone's different so... yeah, it's more up to knowing how your own body reacts.


That's probably why I don't have much muscle and I'm skinny as hell.

Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#14
Quote by darkstar2466
That's probably why I don't have much muscle and I'm skinny as hell.


You won't get very far in life lifting heavy things anyways. Only Arnold Swarchenegger did and that was by luck.
#15
Quote by metaldud536
You won't get very far in life lifting heavy things anyways. Only Arnold Swarchenegger did and that was by luck.


He won Mr. Olympia by luck and not years of serious bodybuilding?

(Can't speak for the beginning of his acting career though)
❝Don't be afraid of death, but of an inadequate life❞
Bertolt Bretcht


#16
why not just use an actual preworkout?

it'll be cheaper in the long run and you won't be putting tons of caffeine in your body. some preworkouts do contain caffeine, but not all.


Quote by metaldud536
You won't get very far in life lifting heavy things anyways.


chicks dig a well built guy. fact of life.
Quote by Scutchington
I like this guy, he's UG's Greek, and he just told your ass in two paragraphs. And I once spent 5 minutes watching his avatar.


A Brain Malfunction

We'll Never Admit As Defeat
Last edited by Waterboy799 at Jan 22, 2012,
#17
Quote by metaldud536
You won't get very far in life lifting heavy things anyways.

pshh... you've obviously never been a lumberjack
Warning: The above post may contain lethal levels of radiation, sharp objects and sexiness.
Proceed with extreme caution!
#18
Quote by darkstar2466


The way I see it, humans didn't have access to all these nifty "pre-workout" and "pre-this" and "post-that" stuff until just a few short years ago. You don't NEED any of these. You're fine with just regular food and water...

Meh, not that many short years ago, decades really. And before that they had home versions that were much the same thing effectively (whereas now one takes some caffeine pills before hand and a protein shake afterwards, the equivalent back then was a cup of coffee and some eggs).

Plus, it's about gaining advantages. Although, to be honest, I don't reckon most supplements (save protein, and maybe creatine but I don't use it) give advantages worth the money.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#19
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Meh, not that many short years ago, decades really. And before that they had home versions that were much the same thing effectively (whereas now one takes some caffeine pills before hand and a protein shake afterwards, the equivalent back then was a cup of coffee and some eggs).

Plus, it's about gaining advantages. Although, to be honest, I don't reckon most supplements (save protein, and maybe creatine but I don't use it) give advantages worth the money.


Creatine is super cheap. I've only just started using it so we'll see what kind of benefits i receive from it, even though i haven't noticed much in the 2 weeks or so i've been taking it. I also figured it's one of the safest supplements out there so it wouldn't hurt me if gave it a shot

Pre-workouts on the other hand, in my case, are very beneficial. I was also skeptical about their effectiveness before trying one for myself, but i noticed a night and day difference in the intensity of my workout after using one. People will argue that you don't necessarily need one, and tbh you don't, but i'll be damned if someone tries to tell me they don't work lol.
Quote by Scutchington
I like this guy, he's UG's Greek, and he just told your ass in two paragraphs. And I once spent 5 minutes watching his avatar.


A Brain Malfunction

We'll Never Admit As Defeat
#20
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Meh, not that many short years ago, decades really. And before that they had home versions that were much the same thing effectively (whereas now one takes some caffeine pills before hand and a protein shake afterwards, the equivalent back then was a cup of coffee and some eggs).

Plus, it's about gaining advantages. Although, to be honest, I don't reckon most supplements (save protein, and maybe creatine but I don't use it) give advantages worth the money.


Bro you know I'm speaking evolutionarily. You're right though - protein and creatine are the more worthy of supplements to throw money down for. My friends are into working out and taking supplements, and they say that most of the commercially available supplements just end up being a placebo effect, spare those two. And they want to believe the placebo. Makes sense to me?

Quote by metaldud536
You won't get very far in life lifting heavy things anyways. Only Arnold Swarchenegger did and that was by luck.


I used to be able to bench 150lb weighing 120lb - haven't tried benching since. What I do want to do now is to use my own body as leverage and do a bunch of navy seals workouts. I've been saying I would for a long time now, but I really need to bring my strength up, so I'll start this Monday without being lazy. Building muscle is hard work.

=\
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#21
If you're going to go the path of stimulants, caffeine isn't an awful idea. I have a really big tolerance to stims, so anytime I plan to train with them I tend to be a bigger advocate of ephedrine. Unfortunately, I think pharmacies have recently discontinued bronkaid, so I'm going to have to find a new source of what I see as an extremely efficient stimulant. Never had a crash or jitters on it, and I can actually feel it, unlike caffeine.

Another popular one these days is 1,3 Dimethylamylamine (more commonly spelled as 1,3 DMAA lol), but that has the potential for a few more sides that some don't enjoy (especially stim dick). If you read up on it and decide you want some, better hurry...word has been coming down the gravevine for some time that it's on the FDA's list to ban as soon as possible. I know it's already banned for all sports and now in the military, so it's only so long before the civilian population is affected.
They say the old woman's got the wisdom
'Cause she couldn't read the clock anymore
She said "The numbers don't represent the moments"
Says she don't see what all the ticking's for
#23
Then don't drink water, don't eat food, and run a lot.

Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#25
Look baby all you need to know right here!



I've still got so much studying to do for tomorrow...
#26
Quote by Shotgunmerc
For the record, I'm not trying to get bulk, I'm trying to get skinny

Seeing that caffeine and all other stims are stimulants rather than ingestible food/drink and therefore have no calories...I think they'll be just fine in your weight cutting goals

Also, please try to start saying that you want to get lean...skinny tends to imply Christian Bale in the Machinist, or perhaps an Auschwitz survivor just walking out of the camp.
They say the old woman's got the wisdom
'Cause she couldn't read the clock anymore
She said "The numbers don't represent the moments"
Says she don't see what all the ticking's for
Last edited by Greenfinger182 at Jan 22, 2012,
#27
Quote by Waterboy799
Creatine is super cheap. I've only just started using it so we'll see what kind of benefits i receive from it, even though i haven't noticed much in the 2 weeks or so i've been taking it. I also figured it's one of the safest supplements out there so it wouldn't hurt me if gave it a shot

Probably not.
The results I've read from studies simply indicate to me that it's not really worth both the money and time (I'd have to drive to the next ton) it'd take for me to get some.

Pre-workouts on the other hand, in my case, are very beneficial. I was also skeptical about their effectiveness before trying one for myself, but i noticed a night and day difference in the intensity of my workout after using one. People will argue that you don't necessarily need one, and tbh you don't, but i'll be damned if someone tries to tell me they don't work lol.
Meh, with the exception of caffeine I've not seen anything that's got decent evidential backing. No offence, but if I took everything that dudes in the gym say works really well I'd be taking everything
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#28
Quote by darkstar2466
Then don't drink water, don't eat food, and run a lot.



Does 400-450 calories per hour on an exercise bike count as running alot? Lol
#29
TS, drink a lot of water and green tea. Eat moderate amounts of protein and carbohydrate, as protein and carbs work together to digest each other better and increase your metabolism (if ya catch my drift). Eat 200-400 calorie meals every 2-3 hours... MAKE SURE you get your nutrition, athletes have the view that nutrition is as important as exercise. Not eating will cause your body to store fat and eat muscle which is not good for you.

Do a good bit of cardio, but don't forget about weight training! You want to slim down, not lose motor function and all strength. Do more reps, more sets, but LESS weight. Do your reps faster and with less rest in between. Your body will kick into overdrive and your heart-rate will rise, and your energy consumption will go up.
❝Don't be afraid of death, but of an inadequate life❞
Bertolt Bretcht


Last edited by KirkMetallica at Jan 22, 2012,
#30
Quote by Shotgunmerc
Does 400-450 calories per hour on an exercise bike count as running alot? Lol

No. The calorie counters on those machines are not accurate.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#31
Quote by Greenfinger182
Seeing that caffeine and all other stims are stimulants rather than ingestible food/drink and therefore have no calories...I think they'll be just fine in your weight cutting goals

Also, please try to start saying that you want to get lean...skinny tends to imply Christian Bale in the Machinist, or perhaps an Auschwitz survivor just walking out of the camp.


Well depending on what you choose to believe what was said in any given conversation I had on New Years Eve, I'm either the next relief pitcher for the Cincinatti Reds or the co-lead guitarist in a hardcore band, so skinny might be acceptable for either of those things
#33
Quote by Ur all $h1t

Meh, with the exception of caffeine I've not seen anything that's got decent evidential backing. No offence, but if I took everything that dudes in the gym say works really well I'd be taking everything

What type of pre-WOs are we talking about here? If you're talking about nitrous oxide and other "energy" boosters, you're right that they tend to be a placebo versus really making a difference. But if you're talking about taking BCAAs pre-WO, there are dozens upon dozens of researched studies showing extremely beneficial effects when on those. Of course, branch-chain amino acids don't try and pretend to be NO supplements, and most of their benefits are seen over time, by having high-quality BCAAs in your system while training. Xtend is a really popular one (and very good one, honestly) out there today.

Buuuttttttt if OP is just asking about stims, this stuff we're talking about really doesn't matter lol.
They say the old woman's got the wisdom
'Cause she couldn't read the clock anymore
She said "The numbers don't represent the moments"
Says she don't see what all the ticking's for
#34
Quote by Shotgunmerc
Does 400-450 calories per hour on an exercise bike count as running alot? Lol


My baseline for basic cardiovascular fitness is being able to run five miles a day at a medium to medium hard pace without fretting. For me, a medium pace is around 6:30/mi right now. If you're not active much, you should start with building up fitness to be able to run 3 miles a day M-F and 5 miles on Saturday, all at a medium pace. Please don't do any exercise indoors - it's depressing man - you have such a beautiful world to go play in outside.
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#35
Quote by Greenfinger182
What type of pre-WOs are we talking about here? If you're talking about nitrous oxide and other "energy" boosters, you're right that they tend to be a placebo versus really making a difference. But if you're talking about taking BCAAs pre-WO, there are dozens upon dozens of researched studies showing extremely beneficial effects when on those. Of course, branch-chain amino acids don't try and pretend to be NO supplements, and most of their benefits are seen over time, by having high-quality BCAAs in your system while training. Xtend is a really popular one (and very good one, honestly) out there today.

Buuuttttttt if OP is just asking about stims, this stuff we're talking about really doesn't matter lol.

I was just talking about Stimulants really.

I've read up on BCAAs, they'd be next on my list of "Shit that might be worth it", but they still fall below the line of result increases I'd be willing to pay for.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#36
Quote by Shotgunmerc
Does 400-450 calories per hour on an exercise bike count as running alot? Lol

Hopefully you realize he's being facetious lol
Quote by KirkMetallica
TS, drink a lot of water and green tea. Eat moderate amounts of protein and carbohydrate, as protein and carbs work together to digest each other better and increase your metabolism (if ya catch my drift). Eat 200-400 calorie meals every 2-3 hours... MAKE SURE you get your nutrition, athletes have the view that nutrition is as important as exercise. Not eating will cause your body to store fat and eat muscle which is not good for you.

Do a good bit of cardio, but don't forget about weight training! You want to slim down, not lose motor function and all strength. Do more reps, more sets, but LESS weight. Do your reps faster and with less rest in between. Your body will kick into overdrive and your heart-rate will rise, and your energy consumption will go up.
I hate to call you out, but where exactly did you learn this info? Most of it has been regarded as being largely false, based on what has popularly been called "broscience", meaning suggesting things that will seem to make sense to people but aren't actually backed up by studies. Probably the biggest one in your post is the eating small meals every 2-3 hours part. Total caloric intake is MUCH more important when it comes to losing weight than meal timing will ever be.
They say the old woman's got the wisdom
'Cause she couldn't read the clock anymore
She said "The numbers don't represent the moments"
Says she don't see what all the ticking's for
#37
There's actually not much caffeine in those five hour energy shots, so that's not a large factor in it. The other ingredients are designed to keep you awake and diligent for the remaining hours after the initial "Perk up" from the slight caffeine dosage.

The other ingredients are basically just massive amounts of B vitamins in their various forms.
#38
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I was just talking about Stimulants really.

I've read up on BCAAs, they'd be next on my list of "Shit that might be worth it", but they still fall below the line of result increases I'd be willing to pay for.

I've taken them before when my finances have allowed: they're nice to have. My rule is always to focus your money on good diet first, and then start thinking about supplements. Balancing macronutrients (fats, carbs, proteins) is paramount before anything else.

Which is another point for you, OP. If you're thinking about weight loss, focus on your diet and exercise before you start thinking about caffeine or whatever else. Make sure you've got the first two in check before moving on.
They say the old woman's got the wisdom
'Cause she couldn't read the clock anymore
She said "The numbers don't represent the moments"
Says she don't see what all the ticking's for
#40
Quote by Greenfinger182
Hopefully you realize he's being facetious lolI hate to call you out, but where exactly did you learn this info? Most of it has been regarded as being largely false, based on what has popularly been called "broscience", meaning suggesting things that will seem to make sense to people but aren't actually backed up by studies. Probably the biggest one in your post is the eating small meals every 2-3 hours part. Total caloric intake is MUCH more important when it comes to losing weight than meal timing will ever be.


My father has a teaching qualification in Fitness & Nutrition, and I used to spent a lot of time scouring reputable internet sites for information. The whole point of eating little and often is to get your metabolism going. I followed this rule and lost a lot of weight. I was intaking around 1900 calories daily in this way, along with exercise, and it works.
❝Don't be afraid of death, but of an inadequate life❞
Bertolt Bretcht


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