Poll: Which of the following government crimes would justify a revolution in your opinion?
Poll Options
View poll results: Which of the following government crimes would justify a revolution in your opinion?
Extrajudicial executions
110 73%
Extrajudicial imprisonments
97 64%
Limits on freedom of speech/press
113 75%
Limits on freedom of movement/association
100 66%
When it is corrupt
101 67%
When it no longer represents the people
109 72%
When it wages wars
55 36%
When it discriminates on the basis of religion, race, gender, sexual orientation (or other)
105 70%
Limits on economic freedoms
52 34%
None. Revolutions (particularly violent ones) are never justified
17 11%
Voters: 151.
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#1
At what point does a government overstep its bounds and become a legitimate target for revolution(s)?

Extra-judicial killings?
Extra-judicial imprisonments?
Limits on freedom of speech?
On freedom of movement and association?
On economic freedoms?
When it is corrupt?
When it no longer represents the people?
When it wages wars?
When it discriminates against a certain race, religion, gender or sexual orientation (or something else)?

Could any of the above be mitigated by the positive things a government does? Increasing life expectancy? Education rates? Reducing social or racial inequality? Reducing crime?


And yes, this may have been prompted by the plethora of revolutions (violent and non-violent) in the Arab world in the last year or so.

NB: Whilst this may in a large part depend on the severity or prevalence of the issues, consider realistic examples and use your own judgement. For example, the economic restrictions in place in Cuba, or the extrajudicial imprisonments in Guantanamo Bay or detention orders (in the UK), the Iraq/Afghan wars for the UK/US. That's the kind of severity I was aiming for when I was thinking of the options.

Try not to select all of them either, that's not very helpful.


And I left out "royally ballsed up the economy" which was a major trigger in the Arab revolutions. There are only 10 options and these are the first 10 I thought of. I also wanted to include "no revolutions".
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
Last edited by Meths at Jan 25, 2012,
#2


EDIT: serious answer, I think it purely depends on the level of dissatisfaction within the people of the country. I think all of the things you listed are horrible, but a government doing all of those things in small doses isn't going to likely incite a huge national revolution, at least not in the western world. Our governments **** up big time and I'm not sure you could really call them real democracies, but they do keep their people happy. And as long as enough people are happy, they're not going to revolt.

EDIT2: I forgot to add something: The desperation of the people. People leading violent revolutions very often have very little to lose and very much to gain. People in the western world have very much to lose and comparatively little to gain.
Last edited by CoreysMonster at Jan 25, 2012,
#4
Quote by CoreysMonster


Don't pretend you didn't miss me. Nobody's buying it.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#5
Well, limits of freedom is already here. And wars, well we participate in wars and we produce weapons for roughly 90 % of all the armed conflicts in the world.

The first two I assume.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Jan 25, 2012,
#6
All but the last 2, voted the one before the last option by accident though.

Edit: although, i don't mean all these things need to happen before revolution, i mean any one of these things is just cause. But it depends on severity and if anything is going to be done to sort it out or not.

In our case nothing is, so yes.
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Jan 25, 2012,
#7
Woah, woah, woah.


Where's the joke option?
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#11
About the time of its formation.
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heal me,
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#12
Quote by technicolour
when it no longer represents the people - assuming it's supposed to be a democracy.


Wouldn't a democracy basically only really represent like 50 % roughly of the population. And if it's a coalition majority it's hardly the majority of people who are represented anyway.

I know the system we have in Sweden anyway screws over roughly 45 % of the population after every election.

And even if the red/green coalition would've won the election I'd hardly be happy with it seeing how the Socialdemocrats are a bunch of do-nothing-have-no-ideas whatsoever.

So I'm hardly represented in neither the government or really in the opposition either as the party I'm voting for is fairly small. About 5 % of the votes in Sweden.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Jan 25, 2012,
#13
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I think you're confusing the pit with some other place where people read great walls of texts and think about stuff


I mourn for humanity when that is considered a great wall of text.

Quote by Deliriumbassist
The fact that one of the options isn't:

-The moment they outlaw Cadbury's Creme Eggs

Has led me to be disappointed by your 'return,' Jacky boy.


I only put in realistic options. Nobody would ever dare outlaw Creme Eggs.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#15
One of my faults is that I have very absolutist opinions (which are usually practically wrong, but hey at least I'm consistent), so I say whenever 'the people' want.

Edit: Also, welcome back. You're my boy.
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Last edited by walkinbazooka at Jan 25, 2012,
#16
Quote by Meths
I mourn for humanity when that is considered a great wall of text.


I only put in realistic options. Nobody would ever dare outlaw Creme Eggs.


Just because it's unprecedented doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

And I know some people will think this off topic, but if they ban creme eggs, crunchies and toffee crisps will follow.
#17
Quote by izbbass
Woah, woah, woah.


Where's the joke option?



I'm guessing the bottom one.

Everyone that voted that needs to be kicked in the shin.
#18
Quote by Meths
I mourn for humanity when that is considered a great wall of text.




It can't be seen from space, but it's sure keeping out the barbarians.
#19
Quote by walkinbazooka
One of my faults is that I have very absolutist opinions (which are usually practically wrong, but hey at least I'm consistent), so I say whenever 'the people' want.


And who are the people? How many do they need to be to claim they are "the people"?
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#20
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Just because it's unprecedented doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

And I know some people will think this off topic, but if they ban creme eggs, crunchies and toffee crisps will follow.

Well we just can't let that happen. We need a preemptive revolution.
#21
Quote by BillyRamone
Can you add "WTF?!?!" as a poll option?


Why would I? The question is perfectly simple. The answer (if there is one) is not but it's easy to think about the issue.


That's two now. Has the standard of discourse in the Pit plummeted even further in my absence? Clearly I was the only thing keeping you people afloat.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#22
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
And who are the people? How many do they need to be to claim they are "the people"?

Exactly. That's why I put it in '.' and why I feel it's a pretty silly question that can only illicit equally silly answers.
Quote by shattamakar
The only advantage of home-schooling is that it gives you good reason to commit suicide.


Hit this once or twice, and you'll be twice as nice.
#23
Quote by walkinbazooka
Exactly. That's why I put it in '.' and why I feel it's a pretty silly question that can only illicit equally silly answers.


Elicit. Illicit is something that's forbidden. If you're going to insult my question, do it properly.

Silly questions are ones with easy answers.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#24
I see Meths for the first time in months and walkinbazooka for the first time in years in the same thread


I voted for 1-4, 6, and 8. I didn't vote corruption because you would be hard pressed to find a government that wasn't corrupt in some way, shape or form, but I guess that is one to an extent. I didn't vote for war because they happen and are sometimes necessary (not good, but necessary).
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#25
When you pause your metuhls and hear a couple bings and booms then look out the window to find havoc. Pure, beautiful, chaos.


Voted for the first 8
#26
Quote by Meths
Elicit. Illicit is something that's forbidden. If you're going to insult my question, do it properly.

Silly questions are ones with easy answers.

lol you are correct.

Spelling aside, I still like my answer.
Quote by shattamakar
The only advantage of home-schooling is that it gives you good reason to commit suicide.


Hit this once or twice, and you'll be twice as nice.
#27
Maybe I'm ignorant, or apathetic, or just plain stupid but I couldn't give a toss.
On playing the Paul Gilbert signature at the guitar store extensively, my missus sighed:
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#28
Quote by Nameless742
Maybe I'm ignorant, or apathetic, or just plain stupid but I couldn't give a toss.


But you still wanted everyone to know that you don't give a toss?
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#29
I voted 1-6, 8. If 7 had included the descriptor "unjust" I would have considered voting for it, but ultimately wouldn't have because there will always be someone that believes any war is unjust.

Just an addition to the topic at hand: how does the Pit feel about laws against treason? I feel as though outlawing actions against the state amounts to political oppression, but I'm sure there are Pit uses who think I'm dead wrong. *waits for Dready*

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#30
Quote by Nameless742
Maybe I'm ignorant, or apathetic, or just plain stupid

Make a thread with a poll if y'can't figure out.


Oh and make it multi choice, for my sake.
#31
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Make a thread with a poll if y'can't figure out.


Oh and make it multi choice, for my sake.



Nice.

Welcome back Meths, I missed you.
#32
Quote by Das_Skittles
Just an addition to the topic at hand: how does the Pit feel about laws against treason? I feel as though outlawing actions against the state amounts to political oppression, but I'm sure there are Pit uses who think I'm dead wrong. *waits for Dready*


Very much opposed.

Examples:

Mordechai Vanunu exposed details of the Israeli nuclear weapons program. Served 17 years in jail, about half in solitary confinement. Is banned from talking to journalists or foreigners. http://amnesty.ie/lift-restrictions-mordechai-vanunu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson,_Jr.

He is technically a traitor (and a US Congressman tried to court martial him for it). But also a hero.

And as proof that the universe is a bastard, he died of cancer but William Calley is still alive. Also he was pardoned by Nixon and served only three years (under house arrest). And he was the only one convicted. And proves that you can only be a war criminal if you aren't American.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
Last edited by Meths at Jan 25, 2012,
#33
Hugh Thompson is not a traitor. Technically or otherwise.
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#34
Quote by Jackal58
Hugh Thompson is not a traitor. Technically or otherwise.


Mendel Rivers thought so. You can stretch the definition to fit someone who threatened to fire on their own side.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#35
Waging wars that are unjustified would be a better option, just waging wars is too ambiguous and limiting economic freedom are the only two i didn't say.
#36
Quote by Meths
Mendel Rivers thought so. You can stretch the definition to fit someone who threatened to fire on their own side.

Mendel Rivers also thought South Dakota was important.
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#37
Quote by Draken
Waging wars that are unjustified would be a better option, just waging wars is too ambiguous and limiting economic freedom are the only two i didn't say.


I thought it was implicit . The only just war in recent memory was WWII. Involving this country anyway.

Communist.
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde
#38
Quote by Das_Skittles
I voted 1-6, 8. If 7 had included the descriptor "unjust" I would have considered voting for it, but ultimately wouldn't have because there will always be someone that believes any war is unjust.

Just an addition to the topic at hand: how does the Pit feel about laws against treason? I feel as though outlawing actions against the state amounts to political oppression, but I'm sure there are Pit uses who think I'm dead wrong. *waits for Dready*

I can understand why treason laws would exist, like if someone with important information fucked off to North Korea, that's a problem, but the wording for those laws ought to be very specific as to not interpret them loosely.
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#39
God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
-Some Jefferson Guy or something.
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"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
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#40
Quote by Meths
I thought it was implicit . The only just war in recent memory was WWII. Involving this country anyway.

Communist.

Oh, unjust war was implied, shit, I should have voted for it then.
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
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