#1
I have an Ashdown mag 300h head with a mag 410t cabinet. Ive used it when playing with my band and was expecting it to be deafening, especially with all the warning labels that were on it when I unpacked it, but in the end I had to turn everything up full in order for it to be heard over the other instruments. Am I doing something stupid with it? I know shit all about amps if im honest, but the one I had before this was a crappy marshall combo I got off ebay, and that wasnt that much quieter than this new Ashdown!

If I was wanting to make the whole thing a little louder, would it be better to get a more powerful head (I think that would be 575w instead of 300w), or would it be better getting another cabinet, such as the 115 deep bass cabinet? Or is something wrong with the gear I have now, should it be a lot louder than it is?

Any help would be awesome and appreciated.
#2
EQ'ing properly will help being heard in a mix.
Also I would consider a second cab to push more air.
But stay away from the 115's from Ashdown, they don't have a brilliant reputation.
A 410 or whatever else you fancy will serve you better.
#3
increase surface area

get another 4x10

doubling the cab spread quadruples the output

and up your mids
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#4
You SHOULDNT have a problem being heard...

Is it just your bass, or are there pedals as well? What's your full setup?
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#5
Quote by Hail
doubling the cab spread quadruples the output


No. No it doesn't. Don't know where you read/heard that, but it's wrong. Doubling up the cab is more likely to produce a ~6dB increase. You would need a 10dB increase for it to be perceptively twice as loud, and there's a big difference between 6dB and 10dB, let alone 4x as loud.


Quote by Din of Win
You SHOULDNT have a problem being heard...

Is it just your bass, or are there pedals as well? What's your full setup?


This. You definitely shouldn't be having a problem with that set-up, even though I've found Ashdown gear to be quite lackluster myself. One thing I find is that they emphasis the hell out of your bottom end, I'd make sure you're not boosting the bass much, and try boosting some top and mids. Make sure your EQ isn't conflicting too much with your guitarist(s) either.
Last edited by Ziphoblat at Jan 26, 2012,
#6
The only thing that will make it more powerful is to take it apart and rebuild it as a more powerful amp. That would be a waste of time, money and effort.

A lot of it has to do with how efficient your cabinet(s) is/are. An inefficient cabinet won't sound as loud as an efficient one.

What is everybody else playing through? A couple of guitarists with Marshall stacks will definiteloy push your rig into the background. As others have said, proper EQing makes a big difference. Don't neglect your mids.
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#7
Or run the head at 4ohms to get the full 307w. They don't seem to mention what the output is at 8ohms. Perhaps not intentionally misleading, but a lack of info just the same.
Perhaps I missed it.
#8
First of all if you have to turn everything up to 11 on your Mag don't worry. There's a difference between gain and power http://basschat.co.uk/topic/3730-gain-power-and-volume-a-confusing-menage-a-trois/ . My Mag has very low gain, compared with any other amps I've used so the input gain is set at max for both the basses I use. Follow Ashdown's advice and set it up with the master volume down and adjust the input so that the meter peaks at 0db when you are playing, then use the master volume to control the sound levels. I use the 'high' input which must mean high gain as it is louder than my 'low' input, very odd.

With a single cab you are pointing your speakers at your knees. They don't hear half as well as your ears! If you bought a second cab and stood your speaker on it you would sound a lot louder even with the second cab disconnected. 4x10's are very directional and when you are standing close to them the sound from the bottom two speakers is arriving at your ears after the sound from the top two and at some frequencies the sound is cancelled out and you can't hear these frequencies at all. You may be deafening the audience but unable to hear your own bass because of where you are standing, especially if the guitar cabs are pointing straight at you.

Your set up should be loud enough unless you really use strange eq settings. I can do most gigs with a single 12" cab (although a good one) and I cut my 4x10 in half because a 2x10 is more than adequate to drown out the drummer and deafen the singer anyway. I only use a second cab if I'm playing open air gigs nowadays.

For details of being louder read this http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/making_it_loud.html
Cheers
Last edited by Phil Starr at Jan 27, 2012,
#9
Thanks for all your responses, great help. Im not using any pedals no, the bass goes straight into the amp. Its not even the guitar its having trouble competing with, it can only just be heard over the drums when we are rehearsing. I might try to fiddle with the EQ, maybe thats what im doing wrong. Not sure I have enough cash to invest in another 4X10 cabinet, will have to see what I can do with what Ive got. Kinda regret not going for an ampeg setup now haha. Thanks a lot though guys!
#10
The Ampegs in that price range would probably be worse anyway, don't even let yourself consider it.
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#11
If your over powering the guitar which can ne heard over the drums what is the problem?? You aren't in a band to drown everyone else out.

Remember what you hear alone, and standing next to the amp is way different than people 10-15 back in the audience.
#12
Talk to your guitarists.
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#13
Quote by Cal!
Thanks for all your responses, great help. Im not using any pedals no, the bass goes straight into the amp. Its not even the guitar its having trouble competing with, it can only just be heard over the drums when we are rehearsing. I might try to fiddle with the EQ, maybe thats what im doing wrong. Not sure I have enough cash to invest in another 4X10 cabinet, will have to see what I can do with what Ive got. Kinda regret not going for an ampeg setup now haha. Thanks a lot though guys!

I've used Ashdown gear right from their outset and Trace gear before that which is where the Ashdown man himself came from. I was provided with a Trace Elliot preamp way back to road test some of the McKenzie types of speakers that Trace were using at the time
I think your problem may be in your EQ setting, if you turn all your EQ right down you'll probably get little or nothing from you cab, that should give you an indication as to how important correct EQ is.
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#14
If your using only one cab I can assume that the "ohmage" doesn't match and you'll be running at around half the possible wattage. Adding another cab will balance this out and you'll get the full power of your amp.

And no, I've not read the rest of the thread.
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#15
TS what is your eq set like?

Also,
tell your guitarists to turn down. You should be able to hear yourself regardless with that head, even if it is only putting out 180 ish watts at 8 ohms

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#16
You could always just try standing on the side of the room opposite your amp... Even a couple of feet away from the cab can make all the difference.
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#17
Just another point, because i think everything else has been explained, is that maybe your just practicing too loud. A rehearsal is like testing a car engine or similar, dont go full blast or you wont hear the mistakes. Your amp should be loud enough to play and gig with. I ve played a few gigs with that exact setup.
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#18
Quote by ChemicalFire
If your using only one cab I can assume that the "ohmage" doesn't match and you'll be running at around half the possible wattage. Adding another cab will balance this out and you'll get the full power of your amp.

And no, I've not read the rest of the thread.

This seems like it must be the problem, 300 watts of power should be enough to outplay the drums.
#19
He will get more wattage, but if he cant rehearse with 150 watts and a 4x10 cab, something else is wrong.
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#21
Quote by rageahol
Mids. NEVER, EVER scoop the mids.


I'm not even going to begin listing everything that's wrong with this statement.
#22
Quote by OtamotPuhctek
Or run the head at 4ohms to get the full 307w. They don't seem to mention what the output is at 8ohms. Perhaps not intentionally misleading, but a lack of info just the same.
Perhaps I missed it.

Do you know how to run the head at a particular ohm? Is it even possible with this amp? I was wondering about that but there are only two outputs on the back of the amp for the cabinets and thats it.
#23
Quote by Cal!
Do you know how to run the head at a particular ohm? Is it even possible with this amp? I was wondering about that but there are only two outputs on the back of the amp for the cabinets and thats it.


Read the FAQ.
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#24
Quote by Ziphoblat
I'm not even going to begin listing everything that's wrong with this statement.


While you are correct sometimes a mid scoop is a nice lovely sound, I'll wager this guy is playing a style where the guitarist is doing that, and he's following suit, combined with a half power amp.

On that not another cab might work, but you might be able to wire your cab to 4 ohms, instead of having to haul 2 cabs a head, bass etc with you.
#25
Quote by askrere
While you are correct sometimes a mid scoop is a nice lovely sound, I'll wager this guy is playing a style where the guitarist is doing that, and he's following suit, combined with a half power amp.

On that not another cab might work, but you might be able to wire your cab to 4 ohms, instead of having to haul 2 cabs a head, bass etc with you.


Definitely agree that mids are the first port of call when you have issues hearing yourself, I was simply saying that to claim that mid-scooping is something you should never do under any circumstances is ridiculous.
#26
Quote by Ziphoblat
Definitely agree that mids are the first port of call when you have issues hearing yourself, I was simply saying that to claim that mid-scooping is something you should never do under any circumstances is ridiculous.


For sure, I love my bright esquire tones and nothing sounds better than my flat wound mustang with some mid cut under it.

It's like a puzzle everyone has to fit somewhere, and if you actually try you come out with a something beautiful instead of a box of cardboard bits.
#27
Quote by rageahol
Mids. NEVER, EVER scoop the mids.

Depends which mids you scoop and how much flexibility there is in the preamp stage.
The ideal add on is either a 31 band graphic EQ or a 5 band parametric EQ, the preamp stages on many low market amps and some expensive ones are quite limited, the Orange 200 watt bass head being a perfect example .
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Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#28
Quote by Cal!

If I was wanting to make the whole thing a little louder, would it be better to get a more powerful head (I think that would be 575w instead of 300w), or would it be better getting another cabinet, such as the 115 deep bass cabinet? Or is something wrong with the gear I have now, should it be a lot louder than it is?

Any help would be awesome and appreciated.

Adding amplifier power really isn't the way to higher volume. What a higher wattage power amp does is prevent "clipping". You can look that up.

Higher efficiency speakers is the most practical way to more volume.

Human hearing is more sensitive to mid range sound than bass, which is why you can hear some idiot with his iPod turned all the way down the street.

That said, I think better speakers would be the way to go. You'll still never be perceived as loud as the guitar, since that's all mid range.
#29
Maybe you guys are overthinking... it could be the bass, maybe the volume isn't turn up all the way on it. Maybe the knob is stuck? Or it's not grounded out properly. Active pickups would make a significant difference.
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#30
is it that you can't hear it over the other instruments or that you don't have any monitors?
#31
Quote by CLIFF_BURTON
Maybe you guys are overthinking... it could be the bass, maybe the volume isn't turn up all the way on it. Maybe the knob is stuck? Or it's not grounded out properly. Active pickups would make a significant difference.

while checking the bass's knob is a good idea that TS might have passed by, getting an active bass isn't the way to be louder... i tried passive and active basses on the same amp, one after the other, and the active was quieter, cause you need to use it in the second jack, that cuts out some dB... but that's just my experience.
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#32
Quote by Cal!
Thanks for all your responses, great help. Im not using any pedals no, the bass goes straight into the amp. Its not even the guitar its having trouble competing with, it can only just be heard over the drums when we are rehearsing. I might try to fiddle with the EQ, maybe thats what im doing wrong. Not sure I have enough cash to invest in another 4X10 cabinet, will have to see what I can do with what Ive got. Kinda regret not going for an ampeg setup now haha. Thanks a lot though guys!

There is almost certainly no problem with your kit as far as volume is concerned. Think about what you have said , you can only just be heard over the drums. You need to be level with the drums, your band is only going to sound good if you are all playing at the same level. play along with a record and reduce your volume until you can just hear the bassist on the recording, ie you are playing at his volume. That is how loud you should be when playing with others

Picking yourself out from the mix is difficult for all musicians. When you start in a band it is a bit of a shock as nobody really warns you to expect it. You have to learn to pick yourself out as a skill like any other. The only things you can do are to move away from the loudest instrument(s) and towards your own speaker. Point the speaker at your ears by raising it or tilting it (not very practical with a 4x10 I admit) and change your tone so you have more mids which are easier to hear.

Try all these things out at rehearsal and tell us how you get on.
#33
Quote by rageahol
Mids. NEVER, EVER scoop the mids.

^
+1

Also look at your right hand technique. If you have a muddy loose tone theres no way you'll get heard over other instruments. You want a strong clear attack with lots of punch.