Poll: Read OP.
Poll Options
View poll results: Read OP.
Yes on #1, yes on #2
16 14%
Yes on #1, no on #2
2 2%
Yes on #1, undecided on #2
1 1%
No on #1, yes on #2
46 39%
No on #1, no on #2
20 17%
No on #1, undecided on #2
8 7%
Undecided on #1, yes on #2
18 15%
Undecided on #1, no on #2
0 0%
Undecided on #1, undecided on #2
6 5%
Voters: 117.
Page 1 of 3
#1
Here's a scenario. Before though, I do not care about how unrealistic this situation might be. Just pretend, okay? It'll be worth it.

Situation #1



Man threatens to kill a stranger. One bullet, and the attacker has a very good shot. You can expect the aggressor to hit the stranger. However, he has a slow working gun. You have a grenade. In the time it would take to warn the bystander to run away, the attacker will kill the stranger. You can kill the attacker and the innocent bystander with your grenade, saving the stranger. Do you do it?

Situation #2



Exactly the same, but the threatened person is a beloved relative. Say, a son, daughter, wife, husband, mother. Go with mother, or something more applicable for you. A beloved relative. Do you throw the grenade?

What would you do in each situation, and why? Remember: saving the life of the stranger or beloved relative will kill the innocent bystander.

Here's the really fun bit though. I predict that, in these hypothetical situations, more people will say yes to scenario #2 than scenario #1. Many will give greater preference to the family member compared to the stranger. The question is, for everyone who fits this category: without saying 'because they're a beloved relative', what moral reason would you offer to give the life of a relative greater weight than the stranger?

Poll coming.
Last edited by Craigo at Jan 31, 2012,
#2
Relative involved? Throw grenade. It would look bad at family reunions otherwise.

I guess, in the first situation, throw it as well, since you've got to get the bad guy. Maybe wait until the bystander has enough time to flee (meaning Victim #1 is killed) but either way, stop the dude.


Or throw it high, and shrapnel damage for everyone!


Where did I get this grenade?
#3
As you correctly spotted, my answers are No for option 1 but a yes for option 2.

The only reason I can give for changing my answer with a relative is the emotional bond you share with them. That will cause you to change your mind on things as you have a tie with them. The life of a stranger is meaningless when placed alongside that of a loved relative.
#5
Yes to Situation #2

BUT the Bystander will most likely get shoot regardless in both situations. the attacker will see the bystander as a witness to his crime and will also shoot him aswell, so i'd just run from situation 1, but i'd kill the bystander in situation 2 to save my Daughter.
#6
While I would save my family member rather than the stranger there are no actual moral reasons I could give. I care more about my family since I'm kind of connected to them, so I could potentially live with myself knowing that I saved their life. Morally speaking, the family members life is no more important (in the grand scheme of things) than the stranger or the bystander.
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#7
Scenario #1: I wouldn't throw the grenade. It might actually be more justified to take the attacker (or it might not be, that's debatable), but I simply wouldn't because if I'm looking at this in actuality, throwing a grenade and directly killing two people would make me feel sick to my stomach and probably be something I'd feel bad about for years to come. It might be the more rational thing to kill the attacker, but I'm not a computer, and I recognize the difference between rationality and actuality.

Scenario #2: I'd throw the grenade. Although both choices would leave me feeling conflicted and everything, I think I'd be more regretful if I let someone I loved and was attached to die. I also think people who presumably would hear about the event would be far less sympathizing if I let a family member die. Particularly those who knew the family member.

Edit: Craigo, that is an A+ poll. I would know as I've made a few polls in my time.
Last edited by The Madcap at Jan 31, 2012,
#9
Is the assailant remorseful, or perhaps, unsure on his actions? One eye is angry, the other is confused and worried. What's his reasoning for all of this? WHAT'S HIS MOTIVE!?!?
#10
That's not a grenade. That's a dog turd.
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#11
no to both.
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#13
Undecided #1, Yes on #2. The question is, would the attacker kill the bystander after shooting the stranger?

EDIT: Never mind, forgot the 'one bullet' part. I'd chose No #1, Yes #2 if I realised this sooner.


Gozd in gora poj,
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uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
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#14
Quote by The Madcap
Edit: Craigo, that is an A+ poll. I would know as I've made a few polls in my time.

I actually take pride in making sure none of my polls have minimal/no objections possible for them
#15
Quote by Craigo
You're a dog turd.

Although dogs and jackals both belong to the family canidae I assure you sir I am not a turd.
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
You should be careful what you say. Some asshole will probably sig it.

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#16
I'm shit at throwing things
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#17
And I do nothing in situation 1 but I do throw the turd in situation #2
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#18
Initially:
No on #1 as I have no idea as to what provoked the attack.
No on #2 as I feel that I would better cope with losing a relative than the bystanders family.

But after reading the responses, screw you guys. Throwing the grenade on #2.

Edit: went with no for #1 and undecided on #2.
Last edited by CaptainRon at Jan 31, 2012,
#19
There, allways, ALLWAYS, has to be an 'I'd pee myself and lay down in a fetal position' option.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#21
Quote by JamSessionFreak
There, allways, ALLWAYS, has to be an 'I'd pee myself and lay down in a fetal position' option.


The difference between people with good polls and bad polls.
#22
Im too tired to think right now, however I must say I expected this thread to be about Bruno mars for some reason, im glad its not
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#23
I'd kill the attacker and bystander and then hold that over the head of the person I saved in order to get sex.


...and yes, that's for both scenarios.
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#25
If I'm being honest, I'd throw three grenades without the pin (or whatever the thing that makes it blow up) pulled then run. It'll make everyone else freak out and run to different directions, while I'm calling 911 and chasing the attacker who now has his back to me.


But for the sake of this experiment, no to both. I'd rather lose a relative than kill two people. Plus if one of my family/a stranger has a guy who is hell bent on shooting them, they must have done something to really get him that worked up. None of my business, will not intervene. He could have friends, y'know.
#26
Scenario 1 &2 : Throw the grenade at the bystander, killing him and effectively distracting the attacker. While he/she is distracted, I stab the stranger/beloved relative to death and share the loot with the attacker.

Alternatively: Overcook grenade and blow myself up.
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#27
For situation 1, you'd have no idea what the stranger ever did to provoke being shot at... He could be a serial killing baby rapist or something. So he MAY have had it coming.
Situation 2... yeah throw I'd that grenade.

Voted no on #1, Yes on #2
#28
Quote by Craigo
The question is, for everyone who fits this category: without saying 'because they're a beloved relative', what moral reason would you offer to give the life of a relative greater weight than the stranger?

Poll coming.

Why is that not allowed? Surely that's exactly why anyone who would say yes to 2 would do it?
Why is emotional attachment to a person you know about not reason to try to save them rather than an unknown bystander? Or obligation to people you are close to?


In any case, I wouldn't do either, as if you throw a grenade in both situations you kill two people, whereas the alternative is just one person is killed and another escapes.
#29
Why is this stranger getting shot at? Maybe he deserves it.

Either way in the first scenario someone is going to die. I'd rather not have that on my conscious (sp?).

In the second scenario, I would definitely do it. I'd kill for family; they're all you've got.
I don't like to drink too much. I just hang out with people that do.
#30
My intentions here are probably worth mentioning. I'm curious to see if people can provide any legitimate reasons for saying no to #1 and yes to #2 without appearing to rationalise their intuition. That is to say, I want to see if there's any serious ethical reasons to pick those two options together, as opposed to trying to explain away what you may instantly think or feel about the situation.

I'd consider emotional bonds as a legitimate reason for doing so, but not necessarily an ethical reason to give greater weight to your relative than the stranger. Of course, you can call me out on this if you think I'm wrong.
Last edited by Craigo at Jan 31, 2012,
#33
There is no ethical reason for choosing family over strangers. The ethical thing would be to just watch the attack shoot both people.
I don't like to drink too much. I just hang out with people that do.
#34
Quote by Craigo
My intentions here are probably worth mentioning. I'm curious to see if people can provide any legitimate reasons for saying no to #1 and yes to #2 without appearing to rationalise their intuition. That is to say, I want to see if there's any serious ethical reasons to pick those two options together, as opposed to trying to explain away what you may instantly think or feel about the situation.

I'd consider emotional bonds as a legitimate reason for doing so, but not necessarily an ethical reason to give greater weight to your relative than the stranger. Of course, you can call me out on this if you think I'm wrong.


Pretty much my reasoning for saying yes to #1 was because of my inability to back up (outside of familial bonds) why I'd say yes to #2. I'd feel hypocritical doing one and not the other. And plus, how often do you get to lob a grenade?
#35
Quote by Craigo
My intentions here are probably worth mentioning. I'm curious to see if people can provide any legitimate reasons for saying no to #1 and yes to #2 without appearing to rationalise their intuition. That is to say, I want to see if there's any serious ethical reasons to pick those two options together, as opposed to trying to explain away what you may instantly think or feel about the situation.

Does intuition and actual moral reasoning have to be different? Someone can immediately feel what to do in each case then on reflection see why they felt that way, and that applied to saying both yes or no to the last case.

Though feelings and rational calculation are different, they don't have to be entirely independent and exclusive. We act unthinkingly all the time, though we could probably explain why pretty well after the act.
#36
Quote by blake1221
Pretty much my reasoning for saying yes to #1 was because of my inability to back up (outside of familial bonds) why I'd say yes to #2. I'd feel hypocritical doing one and not the other. And plus, how often do you get to lob a grenade?

I thought the same thing, but realistically I would probably freeze up if it was a random stranger. If it was family I would be move motivated to act.
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#37
Quote by Shr3dz0r
There is no ethical reason for choosing family over strangers. The ethical thing would be to just watch the attack shoot both people.
Quote by blake1221
Pretty much my reasoning for saying yes to #1 was because of my inability to back up (outside of familial bonds) why I'd say yes to #2. I'd feel hypocritical doing one and not the other. And plus, how often do you get to lob a grenade?
You guys posted next to each other!

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#38
Quote by The Madcap
You guys posted next to each other!

(Invalid img)


There's even a Peppy somewhere around here...
#39
Quote by blake1221
Pretty much my reasoning for saying yes to #1 was because of my inability to back up (outside of familial bonds) why I'd say yes to #2. I'd feel hypocritical doing one and not the other. And plus, how often do you get to lob a grenade?

But saying yes to number 1 haven't you pretty much done bugger all?
You saved the life of a stranger by blowing another stranger up (along with the fella with the gun of course). If anything the only thing you've changed by throwing the grenade rather than shouting is that YOU killed an innocent person, and the gunman died too.
#40
Quote by MadClownDisease
But saying yes to number 1 haven't you pretty much done bugger all?
You saved the life of a stranger by blowing another stranger up (along with the fella with the gun of course). If anything the only thing you've changed by throwing the grenade rather than shouting is that YOU killed an innocent person, and the gunman died too.


no different than the family incident.
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