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#1
Alright so I have a 5150 212 combo and love it. This is the amp which has the tone I've been looking for and it suits me and my playing perfectly. That said, there's just something small missing from it... it's hard to say what exactly is missing from it but I feel like it needs more bite if that makes any sense. There's definitely more than enough distortion (mine is sitting at around 5ish) and there's no shortage of sustain either for me. The low end is perfect and punchy and I've set the mids and highs so that it cuts and attacks really well... but I just feel like it's missing bite. I play it and it sounds almost weak. I find it really hard to describe so I apologize for being nondescriptive. Perhaps it could use a tube screamer to bring out some character. I just want some more grunt and attack and aggression to really put the tone over the edge. Is an overdrive pedal what could do this for me or should I be looking into hotter pups or new tubes (there's 6L6 groove tubes in it now) or any host of other variables? I'm kind of new to tube amps so I thought I'd just share it with you guys to see if you could make some recommendations! Thanks
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#2
I'd be looking at a 6 or 10 band EQ for starters. See if you can try one out before you buy to see if that fixes the problem. If not, I'd start looking at ODs and Distortions. From the problem you described I wouldnt recommend a tubescreamer, but maybe it could do the job. Why dont you go down to your closest store and see if they'll let you try some pedals out with your guitar and amp in a back room or something? I think the key here is to experiment.
#3
Speaker swap? the stock peavey's are decent at best. celestion 30's and g-12k's
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#4
Quote by guy_tebache
I'd be looking at a 6 or 10 band EQ for starters. See if you can try one out before you buy to see if that fixes the problem. If not, I'd start looking at ODs and Distortions. From the problem you described I wouldnt recommend a tubescreamer, but maybe it could do the job. Why dont you go down to your closest store and see if they'll let you try some pedals out with your guitar and amp in a back room or something? I think the key here is to experiment.

Word I completely overlooked the EQ as a matter of fact. How would you set up the EQ to get more bite though? I feel like what it's lacking, at first listen, could come off as distortion and gain, but it's more just an attack thing. For example here's me playing through the 5150 (no pedals with the 3 band EQ pretty much worked out to what I think sounds the best for me.) Also, don't mind the overbearing unoriginality in most of whats being played haha it was a test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUrDHxE_8xc

And here's a clip of another guitarist with more of the bite I was talking about. It's got that tone and crunch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1H9WYC0rTE

Especially during the palm muting I like that crunchy metallic sound and just can't seem to get it (like the tone from bands like I the Breather for example). It may just be a mid boost to get that crunch but then it starts to sound too gritty and harsh...
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Last edited by Krauser at Feb 9, 2012,
#5
Well, you could try JJ/Teslas, I personally loved them after retubing and getting rid of my old Sovtek 5881Wblabla's, and it tightened up the tone to some extend, removed a little bit of fizz and made the bottom end more punchier/less saggier.

Other than that, the Sheffields in the combo might be a problem, you could be much happier with either V30's or G12K's, or even T75's as travs mentioned.

A tubescreamer-ish overdrive/booster is pretty damn good for tigtening/biting purposes too.

I doubt that you'll need to invest much money to improve the stuff, I don't use my 10 band EQ for my rhythm tone, I use it as a second EQ to tap on when I'm doing lead licks/solos.
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#6
Quote by Kuntekin
Well, you could try JJ/Teslas, I personally loved them after retubing and getting rid of my old Sovtek 5881Wblabla's, and it tightened up the tone to some extend, removed a little bit of fizz and made the bottom end more punchier/less saggier.

Other than that, the Sheffields in the combo might be a problem, you could be much happier with either V30's or G12K's, or even T75's as travs mentioned.

A tubescreamer-ish overdrive/booster is pretty damn good for tigtening/biting purposes too.

I doubt that you'll need to invest much money to improve the stuff, I don't use my 10 band EQ for my rhythm tone, I use it as a second EQ to tap on when I'm doing lead licks/solos.

That's what I figured regarding the EQ and yeah, I'm just looking for tightening things up and making some more bite in my tone. My friend has an OD808 with his 6505 and he says it adds a nice extra punch to his tone. I would imagine though that a noise gate of some sort would be necessary. Part of the punch and bite comes from the stop/start stuff that's harder to pull off when some of the excess noise isn't dealt with. I was also messing with the idea of throwing V30's in it but I don't necessarily have a problem with the Sheffield's in it now. Maybe it's a pedal thing.
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#7
Quote by Krauser
That's what I figured regarding the EQ and yeah, I'm just looking for tightening things up and making some more bite in my tone. My friend has an OD808 with his 6505 and he says it adds a nice extra punch to his tone. I would imagine though that a noise gate of some sort would be necessary. Part of the punch and bite comes from the stop/start stuff that's harder to pull off when some of the excess noise isn't dealt with. I was also messing with the idea of throwing V30's in it but I don't necessarily have a problem with the Sheffield's in it now. Maybe it's a pedal thing.


I would definitely look at a tubescreamer. I like my 6505, but with an od I love it. It really is an entirely different amp, and I would say this is true with most versions of the amp. for bite and aggression, tubescreamer definitely. Not to say that a speaker swap, tube swap, and an eq pedal aren't important things that will improve your tone, but for your immediately problem, I would recommend a tubescreamer of some variant. I would recommend a noise gate as a "just because" thing, but depending on your guitar, power, etc. it may not be necessary. I have one, but I don't really need it until I get to about 4 on the volume knob, and this is with my overdrive engaged.

EDIT: I use my eq in the same way kuntekin mentioned, just more emphasis that this is a tubescreamer problem.
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Last edited by dementiacaptain at Feb 9, 2012,
#8
Quote by dementiacaptain
I would definitely look at a tubescreamer. I like my 6505, but with an od I love it. It really is an entirely different amp, and I would say this is true with most versions of the amp. for bite and aggression, tubescreamer definitely. Not to say that a speaker swap, tube swap, and an eq pedal aren't important things that will improve your tone, but for your immediately problem, I would recommend a tubescreamer of some variant. I would recommend a noise gate as a "just because" thing, but depending on your guitar, power, etc. it may not be necessary. I have one, but I don't really need it until I get to about 4 on the volume knob, and this is with my overdrive engaged.

EDIT: I use my eq in the same way kuntekin mentioned, just more emphasis that this is a tubescreamer problem.

Alright cool so a tubescreamer it is. I had a feeling that's what I needed for that nice extra punch. Now I just gotta figure out which one. I heard the OD808 was great but I could save some cash and just go with an Ibby TS9. And yeah, my stuff doesn't get super noisy before it gets to around 3.5 on the post. But then it's just loud as hell anyway... if there's one thing that surprised me, it was how loud this thing was haha. Also, completely unrelated question but I don't want to start a new thread about it, but can a 212 cab be hooked up to my combo (say I put the 5150 combo on top of the 212) and then run a four speaker setup, essentially creating a 4x12? Or is it one or the other?
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#9
You can definately run both the 212 as well as your combo speakers. Just make sure to set your amp on the right impedance. If i recall correctly your combo doesnt have a speaker jack on the back right? Just the wires coming out and going into the back of the cabinet? If thats the case you may have to do a little wiring but it can be done.

Link on wiring - http://www.jumbosunshade.com/swd01.htm

Also, if you want to save a few bucks the TS7 sounds great on that amp for a nice little boost. Its not too far off of the TS9, or the 808. They are all very very similar schematics and most folks cant hear a difference. Matter of fact, there was recently a BIG debate on those due to them all being "the same pedal" not going to go into that but definately you should check em out. My buddy just picked one up for 25 bucks at a pawn shop.

As for the EQ you can definately use it as a nice boost for leads etc, i actually leave mine on all the time and have it shaping my rythm tone. (Im not a lead player so...)

Hope that helps..
#10
Need a 16ohm cab to use both the onboard speakers + cab. Or you could do like me, take the back cover off the amp (where the tubes are), disconnect the on board speakers and use an 8 ohm cab. Vintage 30 speakers work very well with 6505/5150's.
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#11
Tubescreamer. Max level/balance. Min Gain. Simple.

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#12
Try backing off even more gain, use thicker strings, and develop a harder and more aggressive picking technique. Make more sound come from your guitar and the wood than relying on your amp. It sounds excessively simple but it really aggression to the sound.
#14
If you have an output Jack on your amp, yes, assuming of course you match ohms.
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#15
Quote by dementiacaptain
If you have an output Jack on your amp, yes, assuming of course you match ohms.

Sorry for getting back to the thread so late. Kinda lost track with school and all. But yeah there's an external speaker output on it that is seperate from the wire that connects to the combo's speakers. I'm just curious if I plug in an external cab (like a 212) into the external speaker out, will it disengage the combo's own speakers? It'd be very cool to run a quasi-412 setup with the 5150 combo on top of a 212 cab loaded with V30's.
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#16
Quote by Krauser
Sorry for getting back to the thread so late. Kinda lost track with school and all. But yeah there's an external speaker output on it that is seperate from the wire that connects to the combo's speakers. I'm just curious if I plug in an external cab (like a 212) into the external speaker out, will it disengage the combo's own speakers? It'd be very cool to run a quasi-412 setup with the 5150 combo on top of a 212 cab loaded with V30's.


No, plugging into the external speaker jack won't disable the speakers in the combo. As long as the 2x12 cab is 16ohms, then you can use both the on board + cab.

Might be able to get away with a 8ohm cab, since the 5150/6505 should be stable @ 4ohms, but YMMV 16+8ohms in parallel will be something like 5.some ohms. Might get some strange behavior that way :P
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#17
Quote by DarthV
No, plugging into the external speaker jack won't disable the speakers in the combo. As long as the 2x12 cab is 16ohms, then you can use both the on board + cab.

Might be able to get away with a 8ohm cab, since the 5150/6505 should be stable @ 4ohms, but YMMV 16+8ohms in parallel will be something like 5.some ohms. Might get some strange behavior that way :P


Aight sweet thanks man. My plan at this point is to get an OD like a used TS808 or OD808 and then maybe a decimator to get rid of some of the hiss. I've been working around on the EG a little since I've had time off from school work and got it to actually sound almost perfect, but it still needs that extra attack and tightness. I think an OD and a decent gate will get me there. And thanks, good to know that I can hook up an external cab and run it with the speakers in the combo too. I was going to eventually try to snag a 212 if I found one for a great price.

Also, I heard a lot of people saying that groove tubes in a 5150/6505 are pretty subpar and that's what's in it now. Since this is my first all tube amp (I've had a hybrid before), will the changing of the 6L6's to something different really make a difference in the tone? I heard JJ 6L6GC's do wonders for a 5150's tone.
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#18
Love mine with an OD808 and also use a decimator. Can't believe I used to survive without a noise gate. Do the combos have a normal and high input? I use the normal input, B:2 M:6 T:4 R:3 P:4 Gain is pretty low. I'm mostly happy with that... been thinking about getting an EQ recently to see what else I can do.

Also going through a Mesa 4x12 with V30s
#19
OD $70, EQ $70, new tubes (i don't recall how many 12ax7's or how much you want to spend so lets say) $100, new speakers in combo $250 for most celestions. pretty much the remedy to every peavey

$490 +/- 30% to get the peavey up to par... lol.

same shit that i did on my Valve King a few years ago.

you think peavey would do something, lets just hope that they don't do what marshall and throw op amps in like on the JCM900. only then could it be worse.

i have nothing against peavey, i think i have literally played every one of them put out in the last 10 years or so (at least tube and flagship amps), i like all of their offerings, however it sucks needing new gear to get it at the maximum as far as potential goes.
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#20
You have a 5150 and you're not using a Tubescreamer? wat.
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#21
I retubed mine back in Dec with the metal kit from Doug's Tubes: http://www.dougstubes.com/guitar-amp-tube-kits/peavey/peavey-5150-tubes.html At the volumes I play at, I'm not noticing a huge difference. When I do get a chance to turn up the master, then the change is.

You have a 5150 and you're not using a Tubescreamer? wat.


Haven't felt the need for a tubescreamer so far. Think the mesa 4x12 has something to do with that :P

Then again I'm still on the fence about downgrading to a tube vypyr. Would have bought one last week, but the fact that you can't change the presence/resonance kind of turned me off. Little too ice pick-y for my taste. Didn't have a chance to try changing the voicing, maybe the dark will tame the presence a little?
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#22
Quote by trashedlostfdup
OD $70, EQ $70, new tubes (i don't recall how many 12ax7's or how much you want to spend so lets say) $100, new speakers in combo $250 for most celestions. pretty much the remedy to every peavey

$490 +/- 30% to get the peavey up to par... lol.


Well I'm only really looking at an OD and gate as of right now. EQ isn't too high on my list after messing around with things. And I'd be getting an OD and a gate anyway as far as high gain amps go... and I doubt I'd be spending 100 bucks on tubes. The preamp ones and the poweramp tubes are both brand new so they're not really the least of my worries although I was just asking about JJ's for when they finally went on me. And as far as speakers, I kinda like the Sheffields in it. They've got a nice low end but then again, I haven't heard V30's in the 5150 combo in person yet. Ideally, I'd have a gate, an OD, and that's it as of now. I don't really think I'm going to be putting new speakers or tubes in it any time soon (maybe a 212 cab to run under it loaded with V30's for the extra punch and low end to make a quasi 412 setup). So yeah, I'm not trying to spend anywhere near the 490 dollars you were saying .

As I said, I really like it how it is... I actually love it... there's just that one little thing to be desired in punch and tightness and I think an OD + gate is what I need.
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#24
Quote by coolstoryangus
treble 6
mid 6
bass 6

Haha the 666 setting works surprisingly well for this amp. I have mine at treble 7, mids 6, and bass 8.
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#25
I'd invest in some tubescreamer variant, for sure. Since your amount of distortion sounds alright, I'd subtract just a little bit of distortion to compensate adding for the OD. An OD will add a bit more distortion along with tightening up your tone and adding more bite.
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#26
Quote by sg4ever
I'd invest in some tubescreamer variant, for sure. Since your amount of distortion sounds alright, I'd subtract just a little bit of distortion to compensate adding for the OD. An OD will add a bit more distortion along with tightening up your tone and adding more bite.

Word thanks man. That's pretty much exactly what I think I'm going to do after reading all the options in this thread. My gain now is only slightly above 5 and isn't too fizzy at all. It's a good level to emphasize picking technique over pure distortion. I hear the settings on tubescreamers and OD's of the like that work best with this amp are low to zero on the drive, full on the tone, and about 12 o'clock on the level to tighten up and add punch to a 5150/any high gain amp.

Also, is there any difference (besides physically) between the TS9 and the TS7?
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Last edited by Krauser at Feb 15, 2012,
#27
I'm thinking about getting an od for my recto. At first I wanted the od808, then the ts7 cause it's a thirty dollar 808 (allegedly, haven't tried it).

I'm probably going to go with the ts9, and I think you should to. I've heard nothing but great things about it, $100 isn't so bad, and there are more than a couple of mod options to even further sculpt tone in the future.
#28
Quote by robertsanidiot
I'm thinking about getting an od for my recto. At first I wanted the od808, then the ts7 cause it's a thirty dollar 808 (allegedly, haven't tried it).

I'm probably going to go with the ts9, and I think you should to. I've heard nothing but great things about it, $100 isn't so bad, and there are more than a couple of mod options to even further sculpt tone in the future.

Yeah I'm probably going to go for a TS9. I was thinking about a Maxon OD808 because the guitarist in my old band played one through his rig (a 6505+ head and a Mesa Rectifier 412) and it sounded killer but, for the money, it's just an OD. Oh and what you're saying about the TS7 being a thirty dollar 808 is partly true. You can easily mod 2 of the resistors to make it into an 808 circuit, essentially changing your 30 dollar pedal into a 180 dollar pedal for something like 6 or so dollars. It's definitely worth it if you know your way around a soldering iron . That said, as of now, I'll probably pick up a TS9 and maybe a good gate later and that's about it. Kind of want to take a closed back 2x12 extension cab and load it with a single 12" and leave the other out (making it into a detuned cabinet) and really pump out some serious lows with it under my 5150 combo. That's my ultimate goal haha
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#29
Sorry if its been mentioned already but for a noise gate you might check into the mxr noise clamp. pretty inexpensive and works really well. just saw a ts7 on craigslist for 50 bucks. If i were still looking id be all over it!

good luck!
#30
Quote by surjer
Sorry if its been mentioned already but for a noise gate you might check into the mxr noise clamp. pretty inexpensive and works really well. just saw a ts7 on craigslist for 50 bucks. If i were still looking id be all over it!

good luck!

I don't have any experience personally with the noise clamp but I'll definitely check it out. My bud has an ISP Decimator and it's very very good so if I can get one of those for cheap I'll hop on one. And yeah, I'm keeping my eye out for a TS7 but if I can't find one for cheap I'll probably go with a used TS9.
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#31
Don't get a TS9. They're way overpriced for what you get.

There's two TS-7's on ebay right now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-TS7-Tubescreamer-Overdrive-Pedal-/270914408608?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3f13c1d0a0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-TS7-Tubescreamer-Guitar-Pedal-No-Reserve-/160734711091?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item256c890d33

Besides that, there's so many better pedals than the TS-9. There's the MXR GT-OD and the Dunlop Way Huge Green Rhino (supposedly one of the best you can get).

Also, the Boss NS-2 is an awesome noise gate. I highly recommend them for 5150 amps. That way you're gating the front and the back, a single input-output NS can only do so much.
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#32
Quote by Offworld92
Don't get a TS9. They're way overpriced for what you get.

There's two TS-7's on ebay right now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-TS7-Tubescreamer-Overdrive-Pedal-/270914408608?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3f13c1d0a0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-TS7-Tubescreamer-Guitar-Pedal-No-Reserve-/160734711091?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item256c890d33

Besides that, there's so many better pedals than the TS-9. There's the MXR GT-OD and the Dunlop Way Huge Green Rhino (supposedly one of the best you can get).

Also, the Boss NS-2 is an awesome noise gate. I highly recommend them for 5150 amps. That way you're gating the front and the back, a single input-output NS can only do so much.

Word thanks for the heads up. I heard really good things about the green rhino myself. Never tried a GT-OD but I've also heard of it. I'll keep my eye on those TS7's though... thanks man!
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#33
Quote by Offworld92

Also, the Boss NS-2 is an awesome noise gate. I highly recommend them for 5150 amps. That way you're gating the front and the back, a single input-output NS can only do so much.


+1 - The decimator i tried only had an in/out (it wasnt the G-String) and didnt do nearly as well as the MXR Noise Clamp. Noise Clamp Supports the X pattern or (4 cable method) like the NS-2 does. Either are great pedals. You can probably find a used NS-2 for like 50 bucks too! Not too many used Noise Clamps around yet as they are still pretty new.
#34
i have to back up offworld with the suggestion of the Green Rhino. has a wide range or tones and good EQ has a good potential for your tonal shaping. you may not even need an eq. granted the EQ would be in the loop generally, but the amps tonestack is fine for most things and with the tubescreamer coming in its a whole different beast.

as far as noise reduction, i wouldn't get anything but the ISP Deciminator, run it as an X and you will be good.

as far as all pedals go, look used. i have bought a ton of pedals off of TGP. every time i wanted something somebody was selling it on TGP. i also don't know their situations, but quite a few people are practically giving it away with their prices. $80 for a malekko ekko616? yea that is a deal. your dollar will travel much farther.
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2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#35
also if you are really serious about getting everything about every amp, buy a power conditioner, makes things so much more quiet. mine is probably 60 lbs and is a giant brick that also has a battery backup.

everybody will want a power conditioner somewhere in some place and in some time with some amp.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

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alright "king of the guitar forum"


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youre just being a jerk man.



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2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#36
Quote by trashedlostfdup
as far as noise reduction, i wouldn't get anything but the ISP Deciminator, run it as an X and you will be good.

Isn't the ISP Decimator (unless you get a G-String model) unable to do an X connection? It has one input and one output.
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#37
Quote by Krauser
Isn't the ISP Decimator (unless you get a G-String model) unable to do an X connection? It has one input and one output.


IIRC it is possible, i was fairly confident. correct me if i am wrong.

with the G-string, you run the input and loop completely independent of eachother but only has one knob to set both lines, so you don't have individual control. quite a few people will advise picking up two of the regular pedals, so you have more control than one knob for both lines on the G-String.

i was going to get one with the amp i was running before the Splawns, sold the amps, the Splawns didn't need it at all, so i never did get one, but i tried them out on friends boards as well as GC or Sam Ash, etc.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#38
I could have sworn you couldn't... I don't see a way for it to go through the effects loop and into the front end of the amp with only an input and output on the pedal. That said, what will do the most for quieting your amp/guitar; a gate in the effects loop or a gate in the front end?
Ibanez S2170FB Prestige + Crunch Lab
Ibanez RG1570MRR Prestige + Crunch Lab
Taylor 214CE
Peavey 6505MH + Orange PPC112 + TS9 + ISP Decimator + MXR 10-Band EQ

Watch and subscribe to my guitar ventures!
Search Nick Catelli on YouTube
#39
Quote by Krauser
I could have sworn you couldn't... I don't see a way for it to go through the effects loop and into the front end of the amp with only an input and output on the pedal. That said, what will do the most for quieting your amp/guitar; a gate in the effects loop or a gate in the front end?


you are probably right then.

as far as quieting noise, i haven't had the problem really. power conditioners are a good thing. you can tell if the amp is plugged in or not with the guitar plugged and volume all the way down.

that is me though.

i have played the 5150 family before and in general they are pretty hissy and loud amps. even my Crate Blue voodoo (i bought it to mod when i get to it) isn't nearly as loud.

i haven't had the problem all that much other than a little on my old Valve King.

if you are running an OD i would put the ISP in front. likely with a loop that 5150 people use probably don't need a whole lot there.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#40
Quote by Krauser
I could have sworn you couldn't... I don't see a way for it to go through the effects loop and into the front end of the amp with only an input and output on the pedal. That said, what will do the most for quieting your amp/guitar; a gate in the effects loop or a gate in the front end?


If you can only choose one or the other, it's always better to choose the loop. That way the gate will catch as much noise as possible.

Basically putting it in front catches everything before the amp. Your guitar, and any pedals you're using. Putting it in the loop catches the noise the amp itself produces. The 5150 is a very noisy amp, so putting it in front will kill the OD noise, but you'll still have a bunch of amp noise.
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