#1
Hey recently i was learning a song by ear, I figured out the root note/key I thought it was G# major but recently i figured out it was in fact in A Flat Major, how can i differentiate between the two keys without having to play the scales over the song to see if they fit it?
#2
Listen to the bass note. 9/10 times it'll resolve to the tonic or root note.

EDIT: opps, misread. They are enharmonic notes but there is no such thing as G# Major on the Circle of Fifths. That's why its A flat Major.
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Last edited by Xter at Feb 14, 2012,
#3
well, G# major and Ab major are enharmonic... Ab major is just easier to notate as it has 4 flats whereas G# major has 6 sharps and a double sharp
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#5
thanks I just want to be better at my music dictation, i know they are enharmonic its just what scale could i use to solo over the song, e.g playing a g# major solo over a piece in A flat will sound horrible
#6
Quote by Poisonouspot
thanks I just want to be better at my music dictation, i know they are enharmonic its just what scale could i use to solo over the song, e.g playing a g# major solo over a piece in A flat will sound horrible


G# and Ab are the same key, and same scale. A G# major solo over a piece in A flat will sound exactly right. We just prefer one name over another in these circumstances because one will have fewer sharps/flats in the notation than the other.
#7
Quote by Poisonouspot
thanks I just want to be better at my music dictation, i know they are enharmonic its just what scale could i use to solo over the song, e.g playing a g# major solo over a piece in A flat will sound horrible


I'm not sure you know what enharmonic means.
#8
Quote by HotspurJr
I'm not sure you know what enharmonic means.


I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what it means
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#9
They are the same notes, and the same scale. They are the same. In music, those particular set of notes ending and beginning on that particular note is referred to as Ab major, because it is easier to write Ab major than it is to write G# major. That is all.
It doesn't seem like you know what it means...
#11
Quote by liampje
Pick the one without the double sharps double flats.

Yeah G# and Ab are exactly the same, just different names. Tomato, Potato, really.

It's just easier to read Ab because you don't have F double sharp
Quote by Banjocal
sht up u flthy librl foogit stfu u soo mad n butthurdt ur ass is an analpocolypse cuz ur so gay "my ass hrts so mcuh" - u. your rectally vexed n anlly angushed lolo go bck 2 asslnd lolol
#12
Quote by King Of Suede
Yeah G# and Ab are exactly the same, just different names. Tomato, Potato, really.

It's just easier to read Ab because you don't have F double sharp



Tomato potato is not "enharmonic" in logic to Ab/G#

A better fit would be restroom to bathroom

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Feb 14, 2012,
#13
Darren - I think he was referring to the same thing Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Aarmstrong exploit in this song... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2oEmPP5dTM#t=3m06s

But it doesn't quite work when written down (tomato tomato) so he said tomato potato (but that only works written if you are familiar with the saying in the first place. He could have used color colour, but your example works better because they are actually completely different names for the same thing.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Feb 14, 2012,
#14
20Tigers has at least half a brain and knew what I was saying.
Quote by Banjocal
sht up u flthy librl foogit stfu u soo mad n butthurdt ur ass is an analpocolypse cuz ur so gay "my ass hrts so mcuh" - u. your rectally vexed n anlly angushed lolo go bck 2 asslnd lolol
#15
Darren is a pretty smart dude. I happen to know that English is his second language - as it is for a lot of people on the internet. I can only speak one language so he's smarter than I am in that respect. He converses in English very well so I understand that it can be hard to pick. To insinuate he has less than half a brain because he didn't pick up on your reference is pretty rough.
Si
#16
Quote by King Of Suede
Yeah G# and Ab are exactly the same, just different names. Tomato, Potato, really.
Well no, not really. The saying is; "you say tomato, I say to-mah toe". It's actually dialectic humor. I don't get how a tomato and a potato are different names for the same thing.

Different genus and species.

Am I being too literal, sorry.

Quote by 20Tigers
But it doesn't quite work when written down (tomato tomato) so he said tomato potato (but that only works written if you are familiar with the saying in the first place. He could have used color colour, but your example works better because they are actually completely different names for the same thing.


Si! Se trabaja quando es escribido! Usted nesicito a escribir la palabra de phoneticamente. Ve por arriba ^^^

It would be better if you could put the mark above the A to indicate that it was being pronounced as a long A , rather than the "A in father" (second pronunciation).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 15, 2012,
#17
Quote by 20Tigers
Darren is a pretty smart dude. I happen to know that English is his second language - as it is for a lot of people on the internet. I can only speak one language so he's smarter than I am in that respect. He converses in English very well so I understand that it can be hard to pick. To insinuate he has less than half a brain because he didn't pick up on your reference is pretty rough.


no it's not. i speak 4 languages and people here think i'm an idiot. i'd say he's getting the better end of the deal.
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#18
Quote by AeolianWolf
no it's not. i speak 4 languages and people here think i'm an idiot. i'd say he's getting the better end of the deal.


I'm going completely off topic now, but wth...
What languages do you guys speak? now I'm curious!
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#20
Quote by Captaincranky


Si! Se trabaja quando es escribido! Usted nesicito a escribir la palabra de phoneticamente. Ve por arriba ^^^


That makes no friggin sense.
Nichts, nothing, nada.
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#21
^^
Excluding the "se trabaja" part, which was a bit too literal and a the fact that "fonéticamente" was typed wrong, it actually does make sense, at least to me
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#22
Quote by mrkeka
^^
Excluding the "se trabaja" part, which was a bit too literal and a the fact that "fonéticamente" was typed wrong, it actually does make sense, at least to me



Actually si, se trabaja, usted, la palabra, arriba are the only things gramatically correct yet they make no sense.

Maybe it makes sense in portuguese though , in spanish its even worse than beating up the robber and stealing the stuff. <3 that post from Hail on one of those Mod Guerrila Threads..
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
Last edited by Slashiepie at Feb 15, 2012,
#23
well, I translate from spanish, and english, and also proofread
I thought although literal and with a few mistakes, it was fairly understandable

Then again, I'm so used to fixing incredibly shoddy translations that small mistakes do not bother me anymore

EDIT: Yeah, I just re-read it, it's a bit worse than what I first thought... lol
Like I said, working as a proofreader, you get used to so many awful translators, you start being able to understand anything, if you have any idea about the context of the original
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
Last edited by mrkeka at Feb 15, 2012,
#24
Quote by mrkeka
well, I translate from spanish, and english, and also proofread
I thought although literal and with a few mistakes, it was fairly understandable

Then again, I'm so used to fixing incredibly shoddy translations that small mistakes do not bother me anymore

EDIT: Yeah, I just re-read it, it's a bit worse than what I first thought... lol
Like I said, working as a proofreader, you get used to so many awful translators, you start being able to understand anything, if you have any idea about the context of the original


hhhh true, i just re-read Tigers post and by replacing trabaja with funciona and adding context it makes sense.

Pero sigue estando tan mal como darle una paliza al ladron para robarle lo que el se robo.
Quote by Hail
i'm the internet equivalent of ripping the skin off my face and strangling you with it right now


Quote by Steve Albini
Remixing is for talentless pussies who don't know how to tune a drum or point a microphone.
#25
Quote by Slashiepie
hhhh true, i just re-read Tigers post and by replacing trabaja with funciona and adding context it makes sense.

Pero sigue estando tan mal como darle una paliza al ladron para robarle lo que el se robo.


Te lo ruego, no más! Yo trabajo con Español, pero lo odio!

I'm currently proofreading a Spanish to English translation of a trial... the translation is making that sentence look like a masterpiece...
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#26
I speak Icelandic (native), English and Spanish fluently/well enough and Portuguese (Portuñol really), Danish and Esperanto on a very basic level.

My favorite out of those is probably Esperanto. It's just so badass. Ĝi estas tre bona. Mi ŝatas Esperanton.
Last edited by Sóknardalr at Feb 15, 2012,
#27
Quote by Captaincranky
Well no, not really. The saying is; "you say tomato, I say to-mah toe". It's actually dialectic humor. I don't get how a tomato and a potato are different names for the same thing.

"You say tomato I say tomato. You say potato I say potato." (add pronunciation marks as necessary)

The saying is also shortened to "Tomato tomato potato potato." (again with pronunciation varying)

He shortened it again to tomato potato.

Of course you're right that it literally doesn't make sense and so was Darren's comment correct but if you are familiar with the saying then his intention seems clear enough.

It wasn't the brightest way of putting things but I wasn't trying to defend him as much as I was just trying to help Darren out. I thought maybe he didn't get the reference that native English speakers might take for granted.

I really wasn't trying to confirm that the way the guy worded it was valid.

Anyway, growing up I was a kiwi in the states. I pronounced the word "to-mah-to".

One day in class we were looking at a piece or art and the teacher said what does this look like. I put my hand up and said tomato. She just stared at me blankly for about a minute. I thought she was having an absence seizure or something. Then recognition slapped her in the face and she says "OOOh yes tomAto. Yes it does look like a tomato."

After that the kids on the school bus gave me a hard time for the next couple days and sang variations of those sayings when I hopped on the bus.

I got them back though. I shared my marmite sandwich with them. That freaked them the hell out!!!!
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Feb 15, 2012,
#28
fluently, english, spanish, german, and japanese. i can handle myself in korean, portuguese, and dutch (but only because of german, i'm terrible at speaking it).

before i decided to become a musician, i spent my time studying lingustics -- my original plan was to work as a translator for the united nations. but here i am as a music teacher. joy.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#29
Quote by AeolianWolf
fluently, english, spanish, german, and japanese. i can handle myself in korean, portuguese, and dutch (but only because of german, i'm terrible at speaking it).

before i decided to become a musician, i spent my time studying lingustics -- my original plan was to work as a translator for the united nations. but here i am as a music teacher. joy.




And I call myself a translator because I'm fluent in portuguese, english and spanish

I'd love to try and talk to you portuguese sometime though
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#30
I speak major and minor fluently..sometimes mix them up, but people find that charming.

I also understand the several dialects of major, but most people find them outdated and rather speak the currently accepted language.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#31
Quote by AeolianWolf
fluently, english, spanish, german, and japanese. i can handle myself in korean, portuguese, and dutch (but only because of german, i'm terrible at speaking it).

before i decided to become a musician, i spent my time studying lingustics -- my original plan was to work as a translator for the united nations. but here i am as a music teacher. joy.

Dus jij kan een beetje Nederlands? :p
#32
G# can go **** itself. Use Ab because it's not a retarded key.

Anyway, sprechen sie Deutch?
Woffelz

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#33
Quote by mrkeka
I'd love to try and talk to you portuguese sometime though


yeeeeah no you wouldn't. my portuguese is awful. but i guess i can try. D:

Quote by liampje
Dus jij kan een beetje Nederlands? :p


i know what you mean, but can't answer you in dutch. ja, ich kann, aber nur ein bisschen.

Quote by Woffelz
G# can go **** itself. Use Ab because it's not a retarded key.

Anyway, sprechen sie Deutch?


ja, ich spreche gern Deutsch. du sprichst es auch?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.