#1
Fsus4-A#-G# (no third)?

I suck with chord theory and I'm trying to learn more


EDIT: Would it actually resolve on the G#?


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Last edited by Scowmoo at Feb 14, 2012,
#3
It's not that I don't know how music functions (over 8 years in band playing Saxophone, Trumpet, and dabbling in flute) it's just that I never really payed much attention to the theory part of it, I just played what sounded good to me. I know, I know. Everyone uses this excuse.

But I'm pretty sure it's in C minor, correct?

I mean I know my basic scales, all my majors and minors/pentatonics and a few exotic scales as well.


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Last edited by Scowmoo at Feb 14, 2012,
#4
Quote by Scowmoo
It's not that I don't know how music functions (over 8 years in band playing Saxophone, Trumpet, and dabbling in flute) it's just that I never really payed much attention to the theory part of it, I just played what sounded good to me. I know, I know. Everyone uses this excuse.

But I'm pretty sure it's in C minor, correct?

I mean I know my basic scales, all my majors and minors/pentatonics and a few exotic scales as well.

it is c minor, but your statement leads me to believe that indeed you don't know how music functions. it'd kinda be like me saying "oh yeah i know how a car works i mean i looked under the hood before" i'm surprised that being in band they didn't push theory more, though i remember in jr high & high school here, the teachers were glad to get the students to be able to read the sheet music and produce the notes written in some broken manner.

edit: maybe you do know and i'm being too harsh, if you understand chord construction, tonic, sub and dominant chord ideas and chord subs you probably know whats up - but the whole "what chord should come next" is usually pretty basic 4 part stuff which they SHOULD have taught in school
Last edited by z4twenny at Feb 14, 2012,
#5
Well for it to resolve it needs to go back to chord I or needs to modulate and resolve to a different key. So firstly you really need to figure out what key you are in I would suggest you are in E flat major and the A# and G# are enharmonically actually Bb and Ab and you could resolve the Ab to an Eb and have a IV - I plagal cadence.
and a ii- V - IV - I progression.... O.o i think maybe.... someone correct me if i am wrong.
#6
Maybe it's just me (and I still consider myself student of this stuff) but doesn't it resolve nicely to D# Major as well?

The absence of thirds in two of those chords seems to me to give you a lot of flexibility about where you want to resolve this. (Of course, D# is the relative major of C minor). Maybe it's just that my ear is more confident with major resolutions than with minor ones.

Curious why both of you feel that C minor is a stronger resolution than D# major?
#7
Quote by z4twenny
it is c minor, but your statement leads me to believe that indeed you don't know how music functions. it'd kinda be like me saying "oh yeah i know how a car works i mean i looked under the hood before" i'm surprised that being in band they didn't push theory more, though i remember in jr high & high school here, the teachers were glad to get the students to be able to read the sheet music and produce the notes written in some broken manner.

edit: maybe you do know and i'm being too harsh, if you understand chord construction, tonic, sub and dominant chord ideas and chord subs you probably know whats up - but the whole "what chord should come next" is usually pretty basic 4 part stuff which they SHOULD have taught in school


I can read sheet music no problem

I have a basic grasp on theory and what sounds good where, it's just the chordal stuff that I never really payed attention to. My whole mindset during band was "Yeah, I know I'm playing a note of chord right here, but who cares what it's called." By the time I decided I wanted to take learning theory seriously, it was too late.

Yeah, I was a total prick.


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Jackal is like 90.

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Last edited by Scowmoo at Feb 14, 2012,
#8
Quote by HotspurJr
Maybe it's just me (and I still consider myself student of this stuff) but doesn't it resolve nicely to D# Major as well?

The absence of thirds in two of those chords seems to me to give you a lot of flexibility about where you want to resolve this. (Of course, D# is the relative major of C minor). Maybe it's just that my ear is more confident with major resolutions than with minor ones.

Curious why both of you feel that C minor is a stronger resolution than D# major?
It is, as long as you want to remain in the key of C minor.

If you resolve to "D# Major", then the key would most likely be "D# Major".

Just for the record there is no "key of "D# Major" in common use. It is actually enharmonically named "Eb Major". You know the 3 flats in the key signature thingy.
#9
Quote by Captaincranky
It is, as long as you want to remain in the key of C minor.


Well, that gets to my question - why are you "remaining" in the key of C minor rather than remaining in the key of Eb major.


Just for the record there is no "key of "D# Major" in common use. It is actually enharmonically named "Eb Major". You know the 3 flats in the key signature thingy.


Yeah. I knew that, although I wasn't thinking about it. I was keying off the G# and A# chord names, so gravitated towards naming a sharp chord as the resolution.
#10
Quote by Scowmoo
I can read sheet music no problem

I have a basic grasp on theory and what sounds good where, it's just the chordal stuff that I never really payed attention to. My whole mindset during band was "Yeah, I know I'm playing a note of chord right here, but who cares what it's called." By the time I decided I wanted to take learning theory seriously, it was too late.

Yeah, I was a total prick.

chords are the most basic part of music man! if you don't know how they function then you don't really know how music intrinsically works. i'm not ripping on ya for it, if you can ear stuff out and you like doing it that way then go for it. but for REALLY learning how music functions yeah you'll definitely need to start from the ground up. the good news is you already know a bit so it won't take you nearly as long as an actual music noob. i recommend the complete idiots guide to music theory and DO THE EXERCISES (i can't stress that enough)
#11
Quote by HotspurJr
Well, that gets to my question - why are you "remaining" in the key of C minor rather than remaining in the key of Eb major.


Yeah. I knew that, although I wasn't thinking about it. I was keying off the G# and A# chord names, so gravitated towards naming a sharp chord as the resolution.


Here again, that would be Eb (I), Ab (IV), Bb (V). In Eb major, of course).

Eb major and C minor are the same notes and for the most part, the same chords. Usually, the chord that a progression ultimately "resolves to", is the tonic chord, and hence the key name . So, your only question is whether that chord is a "I". (major) or a "i" "minor". The other chords would change their interval designations in C minor, since the "vi" chord of the major scale is now the "i" of the minor scale.

C minor is Eb major, but from C to C, (6th to 6th), instead of Eb to Eb.

To understand the basic difference between major a minor key resolutions. Just strum G. C, D, G (G major), then strum Em, C, D, Em, (key of Em). The difference should jump right out at you.

Listen to "All along the Watch Tower". It's written in A minor. I don't think anybody could possibly ever accuse that song of being in C Major!
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 14, 2012,
#12
I don't think you understand my question, because your answer doesn't address it.

I understand the concept of relative minors. I understand the concept of enharmonics. I'm asking a specific and more advanced (I think) question.

My question is why is Fsus4-A#-G#(no 3rd) in C minor as opposed to Eb major? The original poster and z4twenny said it was C minor - that C minor was the resolution. But why is that the resolution and NOT D major? What determines that a minor resolution is appropriate here rather than a major one?

Maybe I'm over-parsing your words, but you said that C minor was appropriate if you wanted to "remain" in C minor. That suggests, to me, that you think that progression is in C minor and NOT in Eb major. You suggested that putting an Eb chord on the end there would change the key. Why?

To use your G/Em example, it's like saying: I have a chord progression of D major, C major ... where does it resolve? And you're saying that it resolves to Em and NOT to G major. I have no problem understanding that it can resolve to either, but you and the two other posters seem to be suggesting that Em is the only correct answer.

And I don't understand that. I understand Em as one possible correct answer. But G major is also a correct answer, is it not? What about the TS's chord progression makes the major resolution "incorrect?"
#14
What makes it incorrect in my view is the fact that I decided on a C minor resolution after playing it resolving to c minor and then resolving to d major over and over again.

But yeah, I suppose it could be both.


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#15
Hey Guys, Ive been following this thread and thinking about the question. Wouldnt you want to go to C minor because it would pull you back to F, the beginning?
Granted if thats what you want to repeat.
The fact that its a progression built off of the Dorian mode threw me though I will admit and I am going to check out that book. I have plenty of Rikky Rooksby's books but you can always get another.
#16
Quote by sweepinblues
Hey Guys, Ive been following this thread and thinking about the question. Wouldnt you want to go to C minor because it would pull you back to F, the beginning?
Granted if thats what you want to repeat.
The fact that its a progression built off of the Dorian mode threw me though I will admit and I am going to check out that book. I have plenty of Rikky Rooksby's books but you can always get another.


Thats exactly what I did
Went to a C minor chord and then repeated


Quote by Saint78
Jackal is like 90.

Quote by Jackal58
Buy stock in Viagra. Imma gonna fuck you in the ass.
#17
Quote by HotspurJr


To use your G/Em example, it's like saying: I have a chord progression of D major, C major ... where does it resolve? And you're saying that it resolves to Em and NOT to G major. I have no problem understanding that it can resolve to either, but you and the two other posters seem to be suggesting that Em is the only correct answer.
You are "over parsing" my words.

Quote by HotspurJr
And I don't understand that. I understand Em as one possible correct answer. But G major is also a correct answer, is it not?
Yes, it is
Quote by HotspurJr
What about the TS's chord progression makes the major resolution "incorrect?"
Nothing, About the only thing I doubt is that "C minor" would even still be called that, assuming we were playing in, "D# Major". I don't feel like sitting down to fudge through an imaginary key with double sharps and such to prove that.

The resolution is either Cm, or Eb, whichever we've decided we want the key to be. Heck, if Cm was the last chord of the song, why not play C major. (Although the major subbing for a minor tonic has been done to death. Still, I suppose one more time give or take won't hurt anything).

Edit: I "fudged through" D#. And the answer is, in the key of "D# Major" the vi chord would be called, "B# minor". (C## then D# would complete the whole sordid affair.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 14, 2012,
#19
Quote by Greg Trotter
Respell the A# as Bb and the G# as Ab, then resolve to the Db.
Congratulations, you have now written Smells Like Teen Spirit.
Better yet, put a capo on the first fret and play, "A", "G", "C". Which is as much likely as not, the way it was performed....
Last edited by Captaincranky at Feb 17, 2012,
#21
Quote by Woffelz
SLTS = F5 Bb5 Ab5 Db5
OK then put a capo on the first fret and play, E5 "A5", "G5", "C5". Which is as much likely as not, the way it was performed....
#23
Quote by Matt.Guitar
The chords to SLTS are actually Fsus4, Bb, Absus4, Db, but whatever.......
A capo would work for that progression too....! (Esus4, A, Gsus4, C). In case nobody's caught on yet, I don't care about the chords, just the capo for that key. Call me lazy. It'll be the nicest thing anybody's said about me in a week.