#1
Is it considered a difficult to study and fully understand the theory of classical and baroque composers? Like how long does it take ? years perhaps?

Like Bach's, Toccata and Fugue in D minor, ..would that be a hard piece to understand?
#2
Its late for me, so i am going to make this short and sweet.
Yes fugues are super intense and to understand everything Bach does in his music is crazy. The basic form of a fugue is easy to understand, but applying it to the piece can be difficult. Sticking with Bach, if you take a different route and look at a chorale, its a different type of theory. Much more chord based, following chord progressions, substitutions, and voice leading concepts. Baroque is extremely intricate music. That's kinda its thing...

So, it will take either a couple hours on wikipedia or years of study.
#3
Renaissance > Baroque > Classical in terms of difficulty to understand.

And yes, you can learn a lot in a year, 2 years of learning theory (if you learn it correctly) and you'll be on your way.
Last edited by griffRG7321 at Feb 15, 2012,
#4
Quote by griffRG7321
Renaissance > Baroque > Classical in terms of difficulty to understand.


aw hail naw

baroque > classical > renaissance

the only exception being palestrina, who's AT LEAST on par with baroque.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#5
I agree with Griff...
In baroque, our traditional harmony is being fully established, in classical we have a lot of emphasis on the forms... when it comes to renaissance, it's just a hell of a lot of poliphony going on... not easy to understand or analyze
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#6
i was also thinking. is it worth it to pursue a major in compositon/theory at college? Or, is it possible to learn yourself from books. It just seems so expensive to do it at college.

Anyone know any good books mainly focusing on composition? lol
#7
I'm a big fan of Schoenberg's book on Harmony... it's not exactly composition, but it's pretty interesting, and it helps loads in analyzing baroque/classical pieces
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#8
Quote by iidunno
i was also thinking. is it worth it to pursue a major in compositon/theory at college? Or, is it possible to learn yourself from books. It just seems so expensive to do it at college.

Anyone know any good books mainly focusing on composition? lol


What type of music are you interested in writing? if it's tonal, you'll be pretty much wasting your time doing composition.
#9
I'm taking my abrsm grade 8 theory in March.
I have a teacher though, and have been progressing pretty fast, but that's because I put the effort in and apparently absorb it like a sponge.

I'd say it's worth studying it if you're interesting in how everything is put together.

But if you are in to most rock music and indie etc...
That is all learnt by ear - theory can analyse it, but not create it.

Definately get a teacher, helps beyond words.
You will progress amazingly fast.

My teacher was amazed when I first met him, he said I was already at grade 5 standard (through teaching myself of the internet) - but then he took me to grade 8 level in a year.
When I had already been learning for 4 years myself.

Plus I had alot of dud theory in me from what the internet had been coming up with.

Hope this helps.
#10
It's not difficult to study. It's difficult to truly understand.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#11
Quote by Xiaoxi
It's not difficult to study. It's difficult to truly understand.



In your signature, the video "Anatomy of a Fugue" do you have a link where I could learn more information about this?


I understand I could just search it, but the information may not be correct and you obviously know what you are doing.
#12
Quote by rocknrollstar
In your signature, the video "Anatomy of a Fugue" do you have a link where I could learn more information about this?


I understand I could just search it, but the information may not be correct and you obviously know what you are doing.

Well I have a thread about it in which I kind of go over the basics of it and people write a little bit of it and I help them refine it and learn that way.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1506478&highlight=xiaoxi

Feel free to ask about anything.


wait did you mean if you can watch it or if you've watched it and want to know more?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Feb 15, 2012,
#13
Quote by Xiaoxi
Well I have a thread about it in which I kind of go over the basics of it and people write a little bit of it and I help them refine it and learn that way.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1506478&highlight=xiaoxi

Feel free to ask about anything.


wait did you mean if you can watch it or if you've watched it and want to know more?



That thread looks great man. I'm going to have a go at this, it seems like a very interesting concept. I'm analyzing a piece by Diabelli right now and it's made me want to write something without straight strumming chords you know? Something less guitar-y.


And I was just asking can you teach me more about fugues because your video was very interesting and I enjoyed it, if that makes more sense.
#14
Quote by rocknrollstar
That thread looks great man. I'm going to have a go at this, it seems like a very interesting concept. I'm analyzing a piece by Diabelli right now and it's made me want to write something without straight strumming chords you know? Something less guitar-y.

And I was just asking can you teach me more about fugues because your video was very interesting and I enjoyed it, if that makes more sense.

Thanks!

I think the concept of fugues, and counterpoint in general, would be a dramatic revelation to your entire perception of music if you start to really understand it. I think no matter what kind of music you want to write or play, it helps.

Counterpoint allows you to think about music horizontally instead of vertically.
Almost all western music has counterpoint, it's just the way you perceive it right now that hides this fact. Basically, harmony does not really exist in a vacuum, as in an isolated vertical stack of notes. When we go to the next harmony/chord, that means there's a linear motion. And yet when we're talking about rock or anything like that, we disregard this crucial part and separate each chord, and it blinds us because now we can't see it in context of the melodic contour that's created from the chord motion. Why is rock/pop/etc so often limited to 4 looped chords while classical can go on seemingly forever without repeating an isolated progression? This is the key.

Fugues, which runs on counterpoint, is a discipline that gets you to think about how to organize your ideas in a way that is coherent throughout the entire piece and also gets you thinking about how you can continue to get fresh use out of those ideas. Ever try to write a song and get to a point where you have writer's block because you don't know what you should do next? You often think you need to think of a new idea to keep the music going. Through studying fugues, it reveals that you do NOT need a new idea, you just to take a closer look at what you already have and not let it go to waste.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
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Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

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#15
Quote by Xiaoxi
you do NOT need a new idea, you just to take a closer look at what you already have and not let it go to waste.


This so much.

Why have so many ideas, when you can just make another more interesting?
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#16
Quote by Xiaoxi
Thanks!

I think the concept of fugues, and counterpoint in general, would be a dramatic revelation to your entire perception of music if you start to really understand it. I think no matter what kind of music you want to write or play, it helps.

Counterpoint allows you to think about music horizontally instead of vertically.
Almost all western music has counterpoint, it's just the way you perceive it right now that hides this fact. Basically, harmony does not really exist in a vacuum, as in an isolated vertical stack of notes. When we go to the next harmony/chord, that means there's a linear motion. And yet when we're talking about rock or anything like that, we disregard this crucial part and separate each chord, and it blinds us because now we can't see it in context of the melodic contour that's created from the chord motion. Why is rock/pop/etc so often limited to 4 looped chords while classical can go on seemingly forever without repeating an isolated progression? This is the key.

Fugues, which runs on counterpoint, is a discipline that gets you to think about how to organize your ideas in a way that is coherent throughout the entire piece and also gets you thinking about how you can continue to get fresh use out of those ideas. Ever try to write a song and get to a point where you have writer's block because you don't know what you should do next? You often think you need to think of a new idea to keep the music going. Through studying fugues, it reveals that you do NOT need a new idea, you just to take a closer look at what you already have and not let it go to waste.



This sounds fantastic. I've heard of this before and I believe there is certain rules/guidelines (I remember something about no leaps bigger than a 6th or something like that?)

That's probably wrong, however if you can give me a starting point I'll study with gusto. I'd like to learn the rules first before I write anything, then I know what I'm doing rather than just writing aimlessly.