#2
I dunno how accurate that is, but nevertheless, most of the world is seriously burdened by debt, and it won't be long until it all falls down because of it.
"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis; you can't trust people."
#3
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#4
Quote by ChemicalFire
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...


It doesn't exist, it's all made up numbers anyway.
#5
Quote by ChemicalFire
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...


So much of this.

1. Lend other countries money.
2. Go broke by relying on a rigged stock market.
3. Borrow money.
4. ?????
5. China profits.
#6
Quote by ChemicalFire
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...
Does anyone actually know the answer to this?
#7
Quote by ChemicalFire
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...

I wonder this also.
The reality is that there are people/ private funds/companies/etc that are filthy rich and can lend out money like that.
I'm currently studying the french revolution for school,and some of the parallels that it draws to the situation in the U.S really worries me.
Seagulls,the chicken of the ocean.

Originally posted by Gunpowder:
Everyone just jumps on the bandwagon and gives the same advice in these situations. You know what? I'm going to be different. Call the firemen.
#8
Growing countries like China have pretty healthy foreign accounts, and big companies lend money to governments etc. That's where the money is, although as someone else mentioned, it is basically made up numbers.
"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis; you can't trust people."
#9
Quote by suicidalpoptart
Does anyone actually know the answer to this?


Yep. Its a big circle of debts. Heres an answer stolen from Y!A

"First, to answer your question, it's everyone who owns each other's debts. For example, lets take the US government debt. Even though you hear all the time that China is the largest foreign owner, the amount that China owns is actually only 8%. Where is the rest? It's mostly in the hands of investors. People, companies, banks, etc. American workers with 401K's usually is also linked to owning US debt, albeit indirectly. So when the US government pays its debts, it's not only paying other governments, but citizens in the US and across the world as well.

Now for a bit more explanation. As I mentioned above, debt used properly can be a tool for growth. Thus, it's not necessarily a cash issue, it is a balance sheet issue. In theory, a country can run a perpetually growing debt so long as its GDP is growing at a faster rate. Thus, a country like this would never actually pay off all its debts, but it will have the income (GDP) to support it. Therefore debt can issued despite your country's present cash reserves. To put it into perspective, take for example a mortgage. Most people who buy a $250,000 house don't actually have that amount in their pocket. So they go to the bank and take a loan - called a mortgage - to pay back over a period of time. Over the next 30 years or so, they'll have made enough money to pay off that loan. It's the same way with countries. They take debt to finance present spendings, so that the economy will grow and their future income will be enough to support the repayment. If used properly, everyone wins. The lender gains interest while the borrower uses the money as a means towards higher growth."
#11
Quote by ChemicalFire
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...

It goes to where ever the money was spent.
#13
Quote by devourke
Why is the Total Money Spent in Defense/Wars going down?


Because Dubya went to war twice using credit cards and sent us spiraling down this mess further...
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#14
Quote by conor-figgy
Look up fractional reserve banking. It actually scared the shit out of me when I read it, I couldn't believe that this is how we live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking

There was a thread a while back with a link that explains it better, I'll try find it.

yeah, reading that is "well it looks like I'm keeping all my money under my mattress" material
#16
I know about debts.. I live in ex-Greece...
I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed.
#17
Worth a read:

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/it-is-now-mathematically-impossible-to-pay-off-the-u-s-national-debt

Also, money itself is technically debt. The Pound Sterling used to be backed by a gold standard but now there is too much money and not enough gold for that to be used. If you look closely at a banknote it says "I promise to pay the bearer the sum of... £x"
Quote by Vauxite
Lots of lulz were produced, thankyou good sir
Last edited by wigzwamz at Feb 15, 2012,
#18
Quote by suicidalpoptart
Does anyone actually know the answer to this?


I've got $100 that I stick in the bank. The bank notices I only ever take out $20 at any one time so they take the other $80 and lend it out to Person B based on a promise by Person B that they will pay it back over time.

I sell watches and Person B purchases one from me for $80 using the money they borrowed from the bank.

I put that $80 in my bank and the bank takes $65 of the new deposit and lends it out to person C on a promise from Person C that they will pay the bank back.

Person C buys buys a $65 watch from me. I put that in the bank and the bank decides to lend $50 of that new deposit to Person D. And we could go on and on but we'll just stop there.

So far I have put $295 in the bank. But there was only ever $100 to start with the rest is simply debt. What could be scary to me is that if I went to the bank and asked for my $295 they would only have $50 of my deposits. They would have to borrow money to pay me back from another bank. Although I have received and am owed $295 by the bank the majority of that money is debt that has been created on the promises of future repayment.

So where is all that money? You might say that I have it all since I am on the positive side of the ledger and my statement says I have $295 in the bank.

But my money is all in the bank, except it's not actually there. All I really have is a promise from the bank that they will pay me that much money when i call on it, (hoping that I don't call on it all at once). The bank doesn't actually have that money either they only have promises from Persons B, C, and D that the money will be paid to them in the future and they intern will pay the bank. Those people don't have the money either they only have an expectation or promise from their employer that in return for work they will receive money that they can repay their debt with in the future.

If we draw a circle around myself, my bank, and Persons B, C, and D then there is a total "real" deposit of $100 and the remaining $195 is "debt". When you weigh up this "economy" we see that it has a $100 assets and $195 liabilities so a total deficit or debt of $95.

You can do this over and over with as many "economies" as you want or a single "world economy" and all of them, can be in debt.

The question isn't "where did the money go" because we never really had it in the first place. The question should be "where did it come from? i.e. Who do we have to pay back?" If every country in the world is in debt who will be collecting?

You have probably garnered the answer by now...The Future. We have borrowed and spent tomorrow's money today. This could be bad, but it could also be good.

If we borrow simply to spend tomorrows money today; to have something that we do not want to wait for, then we are not doing any good for the economy. When it comes time to pay it back we have less money to spend tomorrow.

However, if the borrowing is productive; that is the money borrowed is used to generate growth and create/add significant value to the economy, then it can be a very good thing because when it comes time to pay back the debt the economy is wealthier than it would have been if the money had not been borrowed in the first place. Thus we have more money to be able to pay back the debt and the lending has promoted growth. In this case the lending will result in greater value added to the economy than that of the loan itself.

So the other question is - do you add value to the economy? Does your borrowing allow you to create greater wealth or are you simply buying today and paying tomorrow? The lenders have to answer for their part but so do all of us.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Feb 15, 2012,
#19
We should just start over from scratch. Absolve every person and country of their debts, BOOM no more global economic apocalypse.
Just a sub-par guitar player..

Quote by darkstar2466
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"Forever alone, together"



IS THIS FREEDOM, OR CONFINEMENT?! FREE MOSCOE_ESPANOL!!!
#20
Quote by son_of_bodom
We should just start over from scratch. Absolve every person and country of their debts, BOOM no more global economic apocalypse.


So we can do it all again?
Quote by Vauxite
Lots of lulz were produced, thankyou good sir
#21
Quote by CV334

Sir, the contents of my mouth just blew all over my keyboard, desk, and part of my monitor. For the record, it was slightly chewed Keebler cookies and coffee slurry.

The average pitmonkey's response to my jokes.
#22
OMg I just saw 2 persons being born on that site.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#23
It's a shame that we basically can't end the war on "terror" and drugs, cut some bureaucracies, and turn the numbers into reverse flow.


GG Western world.

Quote by devourke
Why is the Total Money Spent in Defense/Wars going down?


It isn't even really going down like it should, a la no more USSR era differences.


If anyone has some suggestions on how to fix our budget besides shrinking our expenditure (good luck with that) or WWIII fill me in. Unfortunately, I don't think we could do WWIII like we did with WWII because we don't manufacture our own stuff.
Last edited by garden of grey at Feb 15, 2012,
#24
I find it really, really funny that the western world is bringing upon its own collapse, and all because of the concept of original debt. It would be a very interesting place if we eliminated the concept of debt altogether.

Go greed!
Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#25
Considering that most major currencies are based on absolutely nothing but fairy tales, and that the dollar is backed by nothing more than the faith that the dollar is actually worth something. It's complete ignorance in my eyes, but if it buys my food then oh well.
#26
Pfffft. Debt? Screw debt. We should tell the Chinese to forget about it. What are they going to do? Nuke us?
ggg1 ggg3

.
#27
Quote by behind_you
Pfffft. Debt? Screw debt. We should tell the Chinese to forget about it. What are they going to do? Nuke us?

They'd probably just refuse to produce 98% (totally legit number) of the things they export to us.
Breakfast, Breakfast, it's great for us
We eat, we eat, we eat
That frozen meat
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, it can't be beat
#28
If you watch closely, it occasionally does fall
Quote by beadhangingOne
What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


Quote by TunerAddict
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Quote by Baby Joel
Isis is amazing
#29
If you click New York under State Debt Clocks you'll see that the N.Y. dept goes down about 1 dollar per 10-15 secs.

Thus proving, New York for the motherfocking win.

Can't beat us now >_>.
People in the pit take my post way too seriously.

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#30
Quote by Crazyedd123
They'd probably just refuse to produce 98% (totally legit number) of the things they export to us.
They'd lose out on that as well.
ggg1 ggg3

.
#32
Quote by ChemicalFire
My question as always been, if every country seems to be in debt... where did the money go...


Jesus.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
#33
Quote by JohnnyGenzale
Jesus.



Jesus took our money?

WE SHOULD CRUCIFY HIM, BURN HIM, WHATEVER OUR LEGAL SYSTEM ALLOWS!!!

/logic
People in the pit take my post way too seriously.

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#34
Quote by trainspotted11
If every country is so far in debt, even trillions of dollars, then does money even matter anymore?


No, it doesn't. It's all a big joke now - it'll be like that once upon a time in Germany when a wheelbarrow full of cash would buy a loaf of bread. A $100 bill would be worth less than a square of toilet paper.

Quote by denizenz
I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
#35
If you're already trillions of dollars in debt, does debt even mean anything?Does it really matter if you go another 100 billion dollars more in debt?