#1
Hey!
So I've watched FreePower's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?index=2&feature=PlayList&v=kIEnzboW0Hc&list=PLFA239CA8EF73CEC9
and read
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/the_ultimate_guide_to_guitar_chapter_ii_6_technique_-_muting.html

but still found that I don't know how to mute in the the Baseball Bat Grip posture, because my first finger isn't naturally flat on the strings as it is with the Classical Grip.
This is mostly problematic when I do bend and vibrato, which are pretty much the only thing I use the Baseball Grip for.
"Yeees I am your god!" John Petrucci, Phsyco excercises
#2
If it isn't naturally that way then you need to change your technique and make it that way. You'll probably have to angle your hand slightly so your fingers aren't parallel to the frets any more but that's fine if you're bending at all.
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#3
the "baseball" grip forces you to put large amounts of stress on your tendons. If you were to play with your thumb on the back of the neck instead of your palm, you would be using a muscle which can grow and become stronger. Tendons do not become much stronger, if anything, they degrade.

So, you can either change your technique, and not worry about tendonitis or a plethora of other injuries (as well as making muting and chord stretches much easier), or you can take the risk, and hope your tendons never wear out, up to you.
#4
Quote by hansome21
the "baseball" grip forces you to put large amounts of stress on your tendons. If you were to play with your thumb on the back of the neck instead of your palm, you would be using a muscle which can grow and become stronger. Tendons do not become much stronger, if anything, they degrade.

So, you can either change your technique, and not worry about tendonitis or a plethora of other injuries (as well as making muting and chord stretches much easier), or you can take the risk, and hope your tendons never wear out, up to you.


TS said he's using baseball bat for bending and vibrato; exactly as he should be.
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#5
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
If it isn't naturally that way then you need to change your technique and make it that way. You'll probably have to angle your hand slightly so your fingers aren't parallel to the frets any more but that's fine if you're bending at all.


Well, untill now when I was playing in then Baseball Posture my fingers were diagnal to the frets, but perhaps not enough.

This is how I played and did bends/vibratos in the Baseball Posture untill now:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/20022012048u.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/20022012047.jpg/

And here is what, from what I understood from your reply and what I've seen some players do, the right way to do it:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/20022012052.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/20022012053.jpg/

The difference is the fingers are even more diagnal to the frets, the thumb is closer to the middle of the palm, and the thumb is actually hooking around the neck when bending.

If I got it right, I still have two problems with it:

1st is that it actually takes too long to shift postures between Classical Grip to this one and still bend in time. Could that be solved with practice?

2nd is that since this posture requiers my to hook my thumb over the neck like that in order to bend/vibrato, too much friction is caused from a now larger portion of the fleshy part of the finger tips rubbing against the fretboard during the bend/vibrato.
It's impossible for me to do a vibrato in with decent speed, strength and control this way. Is that another thing you'd say I should just play around untill I get it right? is it possible my hands are just too small for such a feat?

Sorry if you just died of old age after reading this (if you even bothered)
"Yeees I am your god!" John Petrucci, Phsyco excercises
#6
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
TS said he's using baseball bat for bending and vibrato; exactly as he should be.



His post is about muting, which is needed at all times. I know your a super elitist troll around here but try to stay on topic, buddy.

Also, baseball bat grip is never "proper" technique. Usually people do it when they are too stubborn to have other fingers help them bend or learn proper technique. (turning your wrist as opposed to lifting your fingers) It is very easy to bend without the baseball grip if you just get used to using your wrist and not your fingers.

I'm sure a "self taught" man like zaphod will say I'm wrong, but the physics of the human body are on my side.
#7
Quote by hansome21

Also, baseball bat grip is never "proper" technique. Usually people do it when they are too stubborn to have other fingers help them bend or learn proper technique. (turning your wrist as opposed to lifting your fingers) It is very easy to bend without the baseball grip if you just get used to using your wrist and not your fingers.

I'm sure a "self taught" man like zaphod will say I'm wrong, but the physics of the human body are on my side.


I use all the fingers I can use for every bend, and I bend with my wrist and never with my fingers. Not that I've tried much, but from my experience Baseball Grip is actually what allows you to bend with your wrist, whereas Classical Grip only allows you to do lousy bends with your fingers.
If I'm wrong, please enlighten me, but please elaborate
"Yeees I am your god!" John Petrucci, Phsyco excercises
#8
Quote by Avielp
I use all the fingers I can use for every bend, and I bend with my wrist and never with my fingers. Not that I've tried much, but from my experience Baseball Grip is actually what allows you to bend with your wrist, whereas Classical Grip only allows you to do lousy bends with your fingers.
If I'm wrong, please enlighten me, but please elaborate


K,

This is something I learned playing with my band, because we have to play standing all the time and i noticed if I move my thumb you can get way more strength. See, you can put your thumb over the top for some more strength (baseball grip), but why do that and perhaps injure yourself (even though if your only doing it for bending, it would admittedly take a lot of bends to hurt yourself if your young)

OR you can stick with the thumb on the back, but change the angle of the thumb, so instead of it being perpendicular to the guitar, it would be more parallel (not totally parallel but like your thumb tip facing towards the headstock). That will still give you the strength of your thumb being over the top without you having to put pressure on your palm/tendons. You will also notice many guitarists use this when they do faster solos, the baseball grip is used by more blues players because its all about the bends, and the solo is based in 1 key or 1 penta minor box, so they can just hang their thumb out there forever and wait for the next bend.

Again, it is something I changed about my technique while standing up, and just started doing it all the time. But it is very possible to bend without your thumb over the top of the guitar, and if you like fast solos (metal/prog/etc.) watch a guitarist play them live, they never have time to switch to baseball grip. They either start that way or never switch to it mid solo. Hell my favorite bendy solo is "seize the day" by a7x and you dont even need baseball grip to do the 1.5 step and 2 step bends in that solo, even though gates does.

IMHO it is a crutch people use to start bending as quick as possible, like learning how to sweep pick without muting. And you dont have to roll your eyes and be a smartass, I would be happy to explain my opinion anytime if you believe it false.
#9
Quote by hansome21
And you dont have to roll your eyes and be a smartass,

Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to convey with that smily, it's actually my fault; this looks more like a sort-of shy and apprehensive expression than a sarcastically mocking one. I used it because I didn't want to nag people into getting a little irritated by obssetion to elaboration :P

On topic, I'll check out that technique. If it works, I think you even solved another problem for me; I really was worried that I'm not able to switch postures fast enough.
"Yeees I am your god!" John Petrucci, Phsyco excercises
#10
Thank you for being kind and adult about it, it was my mistake then, I was looking to put a smiley at the end of my post and read the roll eyes one, i was like "that son of a B was rolling his eyes at me!" LOL

Yeah, hopefully it works for you man.
#11
Quote by hansome21
Also, baseball bat grip is never "proper" technique. Usually people do it when they are too stubborn to have other fingers help them bend or learn proper technique. (turning your wrist as opposed to lifting your fingers) It is very easy to bend without the baseball grip if you just get used to using your wrist and not your fingers.



You are more likely to use your wrist in the baseball bat grip because having your thumb over the top of the neck allows you to get a pivot motion much easier. The baseball bat grip is superior for bending and vibrato.

I use a lot of wide vibrato in my playing so i use the baseball bat grip quite a lot, i sought of hover between the grips, using each when i need to.

If you can name me some players with great vibrato and bending skills who adopt the classical position then please post a link.
#12
Quote by hansome21
His post is about muting, which is needed at all times. I know your a super elitist troll around here but try to stay on topic, buddy.

Also, baseball bat grip is never "proper" technique. Usually people do it when they are too stubborn to have other fingers help them bend or learn proper technique. (turning your wrist as opposed to lifting your fingers) It is very easy to bend without the baseball grip if you just get used to using your wrist and not your fingers.

I'm sure a "self taught" man like zaphod will say I'm wrong, but the physics of the human body are on my side.


The ideas of baseball bat grip and using the fingers to bend aren't the same, you can try using the fingers to bend in the normal grip as well and it won't work very well there either.

I will explain:

You have your neck in the baseball bat grip, lock the fingers in place and use the motion of the wrist to bend. In this way the thumb resting on the top of the neck acts as a level, reducing the amount of work you really need to do. I never said anything in this thread that runs contrary to that.

If you use baseball bat grip to bend and then have your fingers running less parallel to the strings it means they need to pay flatter on the neck so they keep the strings quiet.
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#13
Well, to sum up the tips I found so far useful in this thread; I'm gonna try the classical-with-thumb-parallel-to-guitar posture to see if it works :P
I'll also try out the improved Baseball Bat Grip with the thumb hooked over the neck and the fingers flat on the strings, like in the photo I shared up there.
"Yeees I am your god!" John Petrucci, Phsyco excercises
#14
Quote by Avielp
Well, to sum up the tips I found so far useful in this thread; I'm gonna try the classical-with-thumb-parallel-to-guitar posture to see if it works :P
I'll also try out the improved Baseball Bat Grip with the thumb hooked over the neck and the fingers flat on the strings, like in the photo I shared up there.


Remember, any change in technique will feel awkward at first, no matter if its for the good or bad.

If you want tone and a half bends that scream and wide, confident vibrato then please do NOT practice bending in the classical position.
#15
Quote by mrbabo91
Remember, any change in technique will feel awkward at first, no matter if its for the good or bad.

If you want tone and a half bends that scream and wide, confident vibrato then please do NOT practice bending in the classical position.


Totaly agree on the first sentence!

Regarding the baseball bend being better, I lean towards agreeing with you completely, but my big problem is that: Shifting between Classical Posture and proper Baseball Bat Posture takes too much time! I would really really appreciate anyone who would give me a solution to that. (I could always just practice shifting really fast, but I doubt I can get much faster than I am now, or even fast enough .
"Yeees I am your god!" John Petrucci, Phsyco excercises
#16
Quote by Avielp
Totaly agree on the first sentence!

Regarding the baseball bend being better, I lean towards agreeing with you completely, but my big problem is that: Shifting between Classical Posture and proper Baseball Bat Posture takes too much time! I would really really appreciate anyone who would give me a solution to that. (I could always just practice shifting really fast, but I doubt I can get much faster than I am now, or even fast enough .


As with all things: keep practicing at a speed you can manage and make sure you're doing it right, the speed will come in time.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#17
Quote by Avielp
Totaly agree on the first sentence!

Regarding the baseball bend being better, I lean towards agreeing with you completely, but my big problem is that: Shifting between Classical Posture and proper Baseball Bat Posture takes too much time! I would really really appreciate anyone who would give me a solution to that. (I could always just practice shifting really fast, but I doubt I can get much faster than I am now, or even fast enough .


Most of the time, i'm between positions. My thumb is almost completely behind the neck but ready for bends and vibrato.