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#1
So boys, as you noticed, most of the downloading sites are going down, the ones that aren't down are getting gutted. I'm upset over mediafire, as I found a massive amount of music on there, and it really helped define my taste. Music I can longer obtain in physical form due to the amount of copies created. The torrent world is also starting to slowly eradicate.

What do you think are the implications drawn from no "illegal downloading" in the music world? Fanbase around the world? The artists themselves? Distros like HHR, HRR, and NWN! ?

I asked it here due to me liking you guys better than the rest of the site, usually you guys are pretty logical about various sorts of things. If this turns into a spam fest, I'll just delete it.


Also, Scum. Collapse. Eradication. is out today. Just sayin' for all you wanting to head over to NWN! and order it.
#2
Wait what happened to Mediafire?
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#4
Quote by ChemicalFire
Wait what happened to Mediafire?

Nothing as far as I can tell but if something does happen given we're currently using their service as off-site backup for a reasonable sized project I will not be best pleased.
#6
Stopping illegal downloading isn't going to force people to buy music, people steal it cause they don't wanna buy it/because they can't afford it.
I found it a good way to get into bands, I don't think it will increase record sales.
#7
Quote by AJScott
Stopping illegal downloading isn't going to force people to buy music, people steal it cause they don't wanna buy it/because they can't afford it.
I found it a good way to get into bands, I don't think it will increase record sales.


We know that, but the people making the rules are casual internet users and probably only use it to check the weather reports every week.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#8
i think there will always be a way.

also helps if your taste in music isn't so damn underground.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#9
Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
i think there will always be a way.

also helps if your taste in music isn't so damn underground.


I would hardly call bands like Dismember "underground", but good luck getting hold of their first album on CD without downloading it.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#10
Continue to pirate.

News flash: You can currently buy any drug or gun you could imagine on the internet, and no it is not legal.

All that taking down the big boys is going to do is affect how many out of the masses download.
#11
No downloading is the worst thing that could happen to fans like me. I live in a country where it is very difficult to obtain physical copies of music I like (apart from the usual suspects like Maiden, 'tallica etc) Most of the obscure or lesser known bands which I have grown to be a big fan of were only accessible to me via downloading/torrents. Of course I started out buying as much music as I can on CDs (and casettes back in the early 90s)

Thesedays I prefer to listen to stuff I am going to buy later on in a store but most of the stuff I listen to is not available here. Buying online is a giant pain in the ass (as those cds are not there on local online stores) and the only way would be to buy from amazon and such and ship it (which means the cost is 3/4 times the original, with customs, taxes and shipping costs)

I do use amazon to ship some DVDs to my friends in the US (who brng them when they head back home on a vacation) but if I can't download (illegally!) stuff I might as well listen only to stuff I already have.

Like someone else here said, most likely something new will pop-up and they will still find a way to work around this stupid Hollywood anti-piracy agenda. If you tend to keep something locked up, someone somewhere will always break it open.
Last edited by elatihc at Feb 21, 2012,
#12
Well I'll probably just go back to Soulseek if need be. Part of me wants to go to court though...so I can just through my merch collection onto the floor and ask anyone trying to sue me how many bands they've support in the last year. Bunch of fucks.

I don't think this will effect extreme metal too much. The dedicated fans will still be scouring the internet finding sites where you can listen to samples of albums, showing them to other people, and then they'll proceed to order said band's stuff.

It's more of an inconvenience in this area, and maybe some bands will lose out on a larger fanbase. However, I think the bigger problem is what this whole no downloading thing represents overall. It's a huge step backwards. I can't wait for all the old man CEOs to die of prostate cancer.
#13
Quote by jetfuel495
We all become hipsters and only listen to bands who offer free music on bandcamp



This. Bands will start to offer more of their shit for pay-what-you-want on Bandcamp, where they get 90% of the profit. Buying an album for $3 from Bandcamp gets more money to the artist than buying their $15 album in stores.

Independent releases will become the norm and the major record labels will see their sales drop even more. I'm lovin' all of the small labels popping up run by bands themselves.

It sucks that so much stuff has been taken off of mediafire though, it really was the best way of getting it.
#14
Quote by ChemicalFire
I would hardly call bands like Dismember "underground", but good luck getting hold of their first album on CD without downloading it.


You can get that album easily, in fact I even gave you a link to someone's sale list with it only a few weeks ago.


Personally, it won't change the way I do things at all. Although I imagine now that most vinyls will come with a link for a legal download of some sort, for convenience purposes.

I think its a good thing in part, maybe it will get people actually having a bit of pride in their music again, and going to shows to buy cds instead of filling a portable hard drive full of metal. Bands can still continue to use reverbnation, bandcamp, and soundcloud (but not myspace, as it's fucked in the head) for people to hear samples before buying the album.

Word of mouth, zines, reviews, live shows, even the odd sample of a song online - these all add up to a bit of mystery about a band. Where's the fun in clicking a button to have 20 years worth of a band's efforts sitting on your computer somewhere, unlistened to? Granted, I'm talking about newer bands, and I suppose some material is next to impossible to come by.

Long story short - it's not the best outcome, as downloading can sometimes be handy, but it'll separate the people who hear something they like, and actively go look for more music of the same type, and the people who go 'ah fuck it, it's not worth my time'.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#15
It won't be a big deal at all. The Internet doesn't just stop doing something because someone gets irritated enough to act on one site. Oink going down a few years ago was pretty huge, and then Mediafire just became the preferred method of distributing pirated music online without a tracker. We'll be fine, another mega site will pop up soon and be on top for a year or two, then get shut down, and the cycle will repeat.
#16
The business model needs to change. Look at artists like Trent Reznor, who make a good living selling music themselves through offering a pay-what-you-like service for downloads, with effort put into physical releases for those who would prefer that option.

This money goes directly to the artist, which is why something like Bandcamp is perfect for doing this. Downloading won't stop, but money can still be made in the music business if you can keep up to date with how the market is working.
#17
The thing that worries me most about all this "stop illegal downloading", is how obscure bands, demos whatever will be completely forgotten. Like a lot of people here, I see it as a hobby of sorts, digging out bands that never really made it and giving them a listen, spreading the word etc. Not that I've followed the development that closely but I can imagine the re-release of the Timeghoul demos were a result of this.

Downloading gives the forgotten artist a new chance to shine, and even though a lot of these won't really care anymore, it allowed us all to experience it. Art for the people! Which is what a lot of aspiring artists aim for, I'm guessing.

My hope is, that once all this ACTA/PIPA/SOPA and whatever may follow settles down a bit, some new method of obtaining these things will arise but who knows?
Quote by rg_metal
I love to utilize furniture to achieve the desired penetration.

UGH!
taste
kaygade
#18
A few of you are almost relying on another site to pop back up, but what happens if something doesn't?

No illegal downloading whatsoever. Would you legally download music, or buy physical copies? or just be content with what you've got and not listen to much music anymore?

or would you take an hour with Clyde on tinychat and let him teach you about youtube?


Another question, what do you guys find good about bigger record companies?

I know the good of smaller distros like NWN!, it's personal. It feels like I'm buying all my items from somebody who actively listens to metal, we might not agree all the time, but I know I can trust his opinion on metal, and therefore trust the bands that he aids with the represses or supports. His prices are low and the quality is what I'm looking for.

Do you personally think that there can only be benefit to smaller distros if illegal downloading ceased to exist? Do you think that if there was an increase in profits, it would change the distro for the worse, as they pander to more and more mainstream crowds?

I see Strangles likes the mystique of metal, and I agree. Would you all agree with him? Do you think that having a torrent with all of the band's work takes away from that, even a tiny bit?

Take for example Inquisitor - Walpurgis: Sabbath of Lust, it's a truly unique album, and people outside of the metal world have no idea what we're on about when we scream, "I ANTICHRIST, I CAME TO FLEEESSSSSSHHH", but then you look the demos. They're excellent, really amazing work. However, obtaining such demos is near impossible, and if you can track one down, they're extremely pricy. Let's take for example, Your Pain Will Be Exquisite...

Do you accept that you'll hear it eventually and that the work tracking it down will make it worth your time?

or

Do you download and listen to it?


Thanks for the all the responses so far.
#19
all i can say is if all downloading disappears I'll still be sitting on 200+ gigs of music so I think I'll be fine
Free your mind and your ass will follow
The kingdom of heaven is within
Open up your funky mind and you can fly

Sumdeus
#20
Quote by Stranglehold
You can get that album easily, in fact I even gave you a link to someone's sale list with it only a few weeks ago.


Sadly he wouldn't ship it to England even though he only live in Ireland

Saying that though after a quick google it seems that Nuclear Blast are reissuing it again next month, so I'll be sure to pick it up then.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Feb 21, 2012,
#21
Quote by severed-metal


Do you personally think that there can only be benefit to smaller distros if illegal downloading ceased to exist? Do you think that if there was an increase in profits, it would change the distro for the worse, as they pander to more and more mainstream crowds?


Let's put it this way - the likes of nuclearblast, earache, century media, metal blade etc. aren't going to be affected by this at all. They can pay for pro videos to be put on music channels, pay for ads in Terrorizer and Metal Hammer, and so on. They have plenty of means of exposure. Low and all as music sales are, these labels still sell a huge amount of cds, and vinyl too.

Likewise, the same people who are put off by not being able to download aren't going to suddenly flock to underground distros to get their fix - these smaller labels and distros cater for a more 'extreme' market, in that they have always relied on people who actively buy and collect vinyl/tapes/cds, and have very little to do with downloading as it is. Someone who is pissed off they can't download the newest Cannibal Corpse album isn't going to search for underground death metal, they'll probably the CC album from their big label.

People aren't going to start shelling out money for physical copies overnight. Although these are the same people who call themselves fans, but can't respect a band's effort enough to even spare a tenner for their album.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#22
Yeah if I wanted to spend a tenner for every album I want to buy I would most likely be in the tens of thousands of dollars in debt...
Cette nuit j'ai rêvé que je mâchais ses yeux
Après avoir crevé par accès de furie
Ta replète panse d'helminthes blancs nourrie,
Trop prompte à déféquer le fruit d'un vit sanieux.
#23
Yeah, but if you're talking in those amounts, would you ever get a chance to listen to it all?
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#24
As much as I would with downloaded music, I guess...
Cette nuit j'ai rêvé que je mâchais ses yeux
Après avoir crevé par accès de furie
Ta replète panse d'helminthes blancs nourrie,
Trop prompte à déféquer le fruit d'un vit sanieux.
#25
All discussion aside for a second - It'd be great to see more of these interesting threads. Relevant, no mention of politics, good good.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#26
I'm not sure how this will affect myself. I mean, take away the chance to listen to music otherwise unobtainable, and the possibility of listening to something before buying it. I'd like to stop buying stuff simply for protest, but goddamnit there's so much stuff I want to hear. So I'm not really sure if it'll boost or diminish my music purchases.
#27
Quote by severed-metal



Another question, what do you guys find good about bigger record companies?

.


Nothing, I hope they die along with everyone involved.

I'm wondering if some people will simply stop listening to as much music if they can't download it
Last edited by technicolour at Feb 21, 2012,
#28
I doubt it, which is why I fear this might actually be the long awaited salvation for big record companies. I don't think people will live without music even if it isn't free. Sure, a lot will just stick with what they have, but we always want more.
#29
People did fairly ok for the last 40 odd years with rock and metal without hearing samplers online, I'd say we'll be alright somehow!
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#30
To be honest, although I certainly see plenty of good reasons to support Strangle's argument, for one this method has helped me find many good bands, - which I then went to see shows of, bought music and merch etc. So I think it really depends on the person. But it's one of the methods of providing easy exposure; even if that person can't get it at the time, they can still give a recommendation to someone who will.

Secondly, the new format made the hard copies more of a collectible item (for me at least). I've seen an increase in effort that artists put into their cover art, packaging of the cd, etc. While of course the music has to stand up on its own, the visual elements are still important in my opinion, ironically it seems that it allowed for bands to focus more on this element.

Aside from all other arguments, this is slightly different to what has been discussed up to this point, but the second hand shops that sell cds don't provide the band with any profit, neither does Ebay, - so format advantages and sentimental values aside, it's a similar form and yet it has hardly been paid any attention in the music purchase debate

“Who are you then?.."
"- I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good.”
KULTURKAMPF
lastFM
#31
I'm only speaking as a completist, I like to have the cd and artwork and lyrics, even if it is second-hand. Im not against downloading as such, I just dont agree with the massive reliance on it. I like to support small labels if they have good music, although I mean - if you're making black or death metal, you're not going to be making much money off it anyway, so it's all the one.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#32
Quote by Emenius Sleepus


Secondly, the new format made the hard copies more of a collectible item (for me at least). I've seen an increase in effort that artists put into their cover art, packaging of the cd, etc. While of course the music has to stand up on its own, the visual elements are still important in my opinion, ironically it seems that it allowed for bands to focus more on this element.



That's an interesting point. Not sure whether or not I agree with it, but if it is true, that's pretty cool. I personally, feel the need to have physical copies of albums I really enjoy, so any added physics aspects are welcome (usually).

I touched on this earlier, but the main thing I'm concerned for, is not myself, but rather how this whole thing has justified the music industries existence and given power back to them which they should never have had in the first place. Not that it really effects me directly due to the amount of artists I listen to that are on big labels (and I mean big outside of the metal world) - but the way these companies treat music, and even the way some of the musicians view music is disgusting to the point of being offensive.

This is also slightly off topic, but I find it hilarious when a metal band complains about download subtracting from their profit margins. You're playing fucking metal, get a day job to pay for rent asshole. I'd imagine someone would use the argument "well they need lots of resources at their disposal so they can focus on making ""excellent music"" " ....and we all know how that works out.
Last edited by technicolour at Feb 21, 2012,
#33
The market has significantly widened, the amount of albums available now compared to the pre downloading era has significantly increased. Downloading is nice because you can tell that an album is a keeper after you've downloaded it and let it sit for a few months,this allows you to test the quality before you commit to buying.

If this makes people need to buy physical copies,then I would only hope that it would lead to decreased prices on music,since it will be more in demand. And this will surely decrease the number of Metal tourists.I will say, I am disillusioned with mp3's at the moment, when your Ipod dies you loose weeks worth of music. My laptop is refusing to start up, meaning I've lost 30 gigs worth of music. When my record player stops working,my records stay as they are, and I have a discman from 10 years ago that still works, as do my old cd's.

Not being able to download will definitely make me less adventurous though. I'll be more likely to not try out some cool new band I've heard about. Though hell, maybe big trading circles can start up were we can trade off random buys we don't like,we could start it up on UG even.

All in all, this is just fueling the fire to my absolute hate for this world.

And yes: **** the Jews in the music industry.The extra 500$ that will trickle down to artists will just buy them beer for awhile.I absolutely hate this concept of the music industry being entitled to something, when they don't do shit for the majority of bands. If we lived in a time were good music was valued by theese people i would'nt mind as much, but music is just a product to them since society has sucked out all it's character from within.
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

Last edited by Riffmast at Feb 21, 2012,
#34
Quote by Riffmast
But the market has significantly widened, the amount of albums available now compared to the pre downloading era has significantly increased. Downloading is nice because you can tell that an album is a keeper after you've downloaded it and let it sit for a few months,this allows you to test the quality before you commit to buying.


There are however now far more ways of listening to music prior to buying it now, Facebook, Bandcamp, Spotify etc

Quote by Riffmast

Though hell, maybe big trading circles can start up were we can trade off random buys we don't like,we could start it up on UG even.


That'd be awesome, just saying.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#35
Yes but you can't take it with you, allot of my music listening is on the bus,so after a few months of hearing something often ,I would be confident enough to buy it knowing that I would listen to it again.
Quote by Steve08
Acid probably makes you feel less like a hedonistic raver piece of trash, too.

#36
We have a trade thread already, it's been dormant for a while.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#37
Quote by Riffmast
Yes but you can't take it with you, allot of my music listening is on the bus,so after a few months of hearing something often ,I would be confident enough to buy it knowing that I would listen to it again.


You're getting it as a free stream, gotta be some limitations, otherwise it's basically the full product.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#38
Quote by ChemicalFire
You're getting it as a free stream, gotta be some limitations, otherwise it's basically the full product.


Certainly, but from what I understand, he's simply saying that it's a more convenient way to listen to something, and you can listen to it anywhere instead of just in front of a computer. Some music is better appreciated in different contexts, simply, and can influence final opinion in that regard.

Quote by Stranglehold
I'm only speaking as a completist, I like to have the cd and artwork and lyrics, even if it is second-hand. Im not against downloading as such, I just dont agree with the massive reliance on it. I like to support small labels if they have good music, although I mean - if you're making black or death metal, you're not going to be making much money off it anyway, so it's all the one


That's fair; I'm limited in what music/how much music I buy finance wise, but otherwise I can agree with pretty much everything here. Possessing the actual copy is, in the end, much more preferable.

“Who are you then?.."
"- I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good.”
KULTURKAMPF
lastFM
Last edited by Emenius Sleepus at Feb 21, 2012,
#39
Sorry if this argument has already been made, I haven't really read the thread. Plenty of labels and bands put their music up on the net to listen to. Heck, Hell's Headbangers and NWN! upload new releases on their websites. This pretty much helps to get rid of those people who download before buying. However, people that download and never buy will probably not be dissuaded by this.
Quote by severed-metal
These don't sound like very good ambitions when driving...Judas Priest makes people want to go 200 mph, and Realm of Chaos is now an album for ramming shit. You are dangerous, dangerous people.

last.fm
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