Page 1 of 2
#1
Ok i no there lots of thread about scales but they all confuse me. Ive been playing guitar for awhile using tabs but scales are going over my head.

I keep reading different things and its getting frustating. So basically im trying to learn scales but when ever i look at website i sometime get the standard box which i get even though using just using those 8 notes i cant get anything good, but then other i see a whole guitar neck for the same scale.

My question is what am i looking at what should i be learning.

My guitar for dummies says i should try and learn all the major scales is this all the boxs or every note on the neck?
#2
Right. So, the guitar repeats notes all over the place, right? You've got 6 strings tuned mostly in 4ths...there is overlap everywhere - the great advantage/disadvantage of the guitar.

Since everything is repeating what people do is take the whole fretboard and divide it up into 4-5 fret sections "boxes", if you will. You can't reach more than 4-5 frets out if you're in one position so they tend to teach the scales in positions, and then you learn all those positions and connect them together.

I would suggest you learn the major scale (all across the neck). By doing that you've learned the natural minor scale as well (look up: relative minor). The minor pentatonic that is the backbone of most rock/metal/blues soloing is contained WITHIN that scale so at that point you're not learning any NEW positions, you're just learning a position within a position.
#4
You'll get different advice on this one. But here's my take:

Learn the minor pentatonic in ONE position. Play it over major or minor chords in that key. Experiment and play in it until you start to understand how those notes, in that one position, make music. Focus on what you're HEARING. Learn the minor pentatonic built on the low-e string root note.

(The reason I don't recommend learning more scales, or learning them all over the neck, is that if you do this you focus more on what you're doing with your fingers than with the sounds you're making. You will learn that stuff eventually ... just not right away).

Once you've gotten comfortable MAKING MUSIC with the minor pentatonic, add the major pentatonic. Again, same drill. Learn it in one position. Make music with it.

From there you'll eventually add the full major and minor scales, and you'l start to expand your knowledge of the pentatonics all over the neck.

Eventually you are going to want to know all the notes on the neck, but NOT NOW. You need to be listening, more so than thinking about note names and such.
#5
Quote by chronowarp
Right. So, the guitar repeats notes all over the place, right? You've got 6 strings tuned mostly in 4ths...there is overlap everywhere - the great advantage/disadvantage of the guitar.

Since everything is repeating what people do is take the whole fretboard and divide it up into 4-5 fret sections "boxes", if you will. You can't reach more than 4-5 frets out if you're in one position so they tend to teach the scales in positions, and then you learn all those positions and connect them together.

I would suggest you learn the major scale (all across the neck). By doing that you've learned the natural minor scale as well (look up: relative minor). The minor pentatonic that is the backbone of most rock/metal/blues soloing is contained WITHIN that scale so at that point you're not learning any NEW positions, you're just learning a position within a position.


When you THE major scale do you meen pick a key and learn just the one ABCDEFG scales all over the neck i just dont see how it possible to rememeber than many notes.

Can i play the F scale for example anywhere as long i go from F to F using 8 notes WWHWWWH
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#6
Quote by the_b1ues
When you THE major scale do you meen pick a key and learn just the one ABCDEFG scales all over the neck i just dont see how it possible to rememeber than many notes.

Can i play the F scale for example anywhere as long i go from F to F using 8 notes WWHWWWH

Yes. If you learn the "boxes", it's just a matter of moving the root note.

If you start that pattern on Fret 1 on the E then it's "F major", if you move it up a half step it's "F# major". It's beneficial to learn the note names in each key/scale, but you don't necessarily have to in order to memorize all your major scale positions. you just need to be cognizant of where the root is in each position.
#7
Quote by chronowarp
Yes. If you learn the "boxes", it's just a matter of moving the root note.

If you start that pattern on Fret 1 on the E then it's "F major", if you move it up a half step it's "F# major". It's beneficial to learn the note names in each key/scale, but you don't necessarily have to in order to memorize all your major scale positions. you just need to be cognizant of where the root is in each position.



But why if i look on thie website C and D are differnet notes so how does the box work
C http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=FULL&scch=C&scchnam=Major&get2=Get&t=0&choice=1
D http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=FULL&scch=D&scchnam=Major&get2=Get&t=0&choice=1

if i select a different major scale the notes are differnet. If i learn the box and move it up and down how can that me right. I no it is but i dont understand

Simple example

e string
C major - E,F,G,A,B,C,
D major E,F#,G,A,B

So if i learn the same box the notes wont be correct.
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#8
Right, the notes are different, but the shapes are the same.

The note relationships ALWAYS are constant, but the actual notes CHANGE. Think of a major barre chord. If you want to play C major...you start the shape on a C note - it's still a major chord. You want to play D major, you just slide that shape up 2 frets. Think relationships.

If you look at Cmajor vs. Dmajor.

C D E F G A B C
D E F# G A B C#

If you look at both of these scales the relationship between notes is still (WWHWWWH), right?
Last edited by chronowarp at Feb 21, 2012,
#9
Quote by chronowarp
Right, the notes are different, but the shapes are the same.

The note relationships ALWAYS are constant, but the actual notes CHANGE.

If you look at Cmajor vs. Dmajor.

C D E F G A B C
D E F# G A B C#

If you look at both of these scales the relationship between notes is still (WWHWWWH), right?


Right but if you play the same box then the notes will be wrong.

C your playing F G but D your playing F# G so the box cant stay the same.
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#10
Quote by the_b1ues
Right but if you play the same box then the notes will be wrong.

If you're in C major...your "boxes" need to relate to C.

With the simplest major scale pattern, the bottom note just needs to be C:


C major
|-x-|-o-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|
|-x-|---|-x-|-o-|---|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-o-|---|-x-|---|
      8


But if now you need to play over a song in D major, then you just take the same pattern above...start it on the 10th fret - now you're in D. All the other boxes are still related in the same way to the first one, but they've all moved up 2 frets.


D major
|-x-|-o-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|
|-x-|---|-x-|-o-|---|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-o-|---|-x-|---|
      10
Last edited by chronowarp at Feb 21, 2012,
#11
^^Since you mentioned the WWHWWWH pattern yourself, that'll help you answer the question.

If you build the scale starting from different root notes, the intervals between given notes will change. For example, in C major you'll need a half step between E and F (since they are the third and fourth scale degrees), whereas in D major, you'll need a whole step after the E, giving you an F#.

Also, start studying theory and this will make a whole lot more sense.
Last edited by :-D at Feb 21, 2012,
#12
For a beginner patterns and boxes are quite useful but as time goes on i would suggest that you learn the notes of each key and find them all on the fretboard, you will then discover your own patterns and you dont need to think in terms of boxes anymore.

Learning the notes of all 12 keys and playing them fluidly across the entire neck will take a matter of years so you have to be patient and you have to put the work in.

And once you know all the major keys, you will automatically know the minor keys as well by finding the relative minor.
#13
So the box shape is different for each major scale? So there 7 different box to learn and you just move them?
#14
Quote by the_b1ues
So the box shape is different for each major scale? So there 7 different box to learn and you just move them?

No, it's the same. That's the advantage learning scales on a guitar has over a piano.

Yes, just 7 boxes, but the shapes are the same regardless of key.
Last edited by mdc at Feb 21, 2012,
#15
Quote by the_b1ues
So the box shape is different for each major scale?

Don't think of scales as box shapes for now, that'll confuse the issue. The box shape isn't the scale, it's simply the visual representation of how a scale is mapped out across the fretboard.

The scale is a series of intervals from a given tonic; the WWHWWWH formula you provided is the formula for the intervals of the major scale, and it doesn't change regardless of what your tonic note is. Take a few roots and try constructing the major scale using them based on the interval formula. For example, since you know C major is C D E F G A B, try applying the same pattern to these roots: D, E and A.

How would those scales be written out?
#16
Quote by mdc
No, it's the same. That's the advantage learning scales on a guitar has over a piano.


But it cant be because the notes spacing is different for scales. i posted link earlier and for the C and D scales the first to notes alone are different so how can the box stay the same?

Estring

C Major 0F-G
D Major 0-F#G-
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#17
Quote by the_b1ues
But it cant be because the notes spacing is different for scales. i posted link earlier and for the C and D scales the first to notes alone are different so how can the box stay the same?

If you're talking about major scales, the note spacing is exactly the same. Read what I wrote above and see if you can make sense of it.
#18
Quote by the_b1ues
But it cant be because the notes spacing is different for scales. i posted link earlier and for the C and D scales the first to notes alone are different so how can the box stay the same?

Sorry, dude. I edited to add something extra (about the 7 boxes).
#19
different

Estring

C Major 0F-G
D Major 0-F#G-

so box isnt the same.

So let forget about the box and everything if i wont to learn every Major scale all i need to do is remember WWHWWWH pick a root and you have a scale so how do i learn say the E scale do i just need to rememeber where all the e notes are and i have the E?
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#20
Quote by the_b1ues
different

Estring

C Major 0F-G
D Major 0-F#G-

so box isnt the same.

That's cuz you're not starting from the root note.

In your example, here,

C Major, you are starting on the major 3rd
D Major, you are starting on the major 2nd.

Do you understand what 3rds, 2nds etc are?
#21
So let forget about the box and everything if i wont to learn every Major scale all i need to do is remember WWHWWWH pick a root and you have a scale so how do i learn say the E scale do i just need to rememeber where all the e notes are and i have the E?
#22
Quote by the_b1ues
So let forget about the box and everything if i wont to learn every Major scale all i need to do is remember WWHWWWH pick a root and you have a scale so how do i learn say the E scale do i just need to rememeber where all the e notes are and i have the E?

Try constructing the E major scale using that formula - what notes do you come up with?
#23
Quote by the_b1ues
So the box shape is different for each major scale? So there 7 different box to learn and you just move them?

No, not necessarily.

Let me break this down a bit more, I'll try to fully diagram it for you.

So you know that a major scale can be built by picking a root and following the formula: WWHWWWH, right?

So, let's pick a few major scales how about: C, E, & D.


C MAJOR

[color="red"]C[/color] C# [color="red"]D[/color] D# [color="red"]E[/color] [color="red"]F[/color] F# [color="red"]G[/color] G# [color="red"]A[/color] A# [color="red"]B[/color] [color="red"]C[/color]
\ W /\ W /\H/\ W /\ W /\ W /\H/   




E MAJOR

[color="red"]E[/color] F [color="red"]F#[/color] G [color="red"]G#[/color] [color="red"]A[/color] A# [color="red"]B[/color] C [color="red"]C#[/color] D [color="red"]D#[/color] [color="red"]E[/color]
\ W /\ W /\H/\ W /\ W /\ W /\H/   



D MAJOR

[color="red"]D[/color] D# [color="red"]E[/color] F [color="red"]F#[/color] [color="red"]G[/color] G# [color="red"]A[/color] A# [color="red"]B[/color] C [color="red"]C#[/color] [color="red"]D[/color]
\ W /\ W /\H/\ W /\ W /\ W /\H/   


All different notes, right? All the same formula. So if the note relationships are the same...that means on the guitar the relationships are going to be the same - the shapes are going to be the same, its just where you start the shape (where the root is).

If this is Gmajor on the fretboard...


G MAJOR


                                           |.....pos 5.....|
                               |....pos 4......|
                       |.....pos 3.....|
               |.....pos 2.....|
   |.....pos 1.....|
|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|---|
|---|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|---|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|---|---|
|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|---|
|---|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|---|
1         3       5       7       9          12         15



So this is what it looks like if we stick all the notes in G major on the fretboard. Looks like a ****ing mess so we break it down into smaller chunks, boxes, "positions".

Position 1:
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|
      3
Position 2:
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
      5
Position 3:
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|
|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|
  7
Position 4:
|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|
      10
Position 5:
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|
|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
|---|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|
      12

I labeled each position in the above....now if you take that whole diagram above and you shift it up 1 fret, then you've Ab major...up another half step...A major. The notes are changing, but all the relationships are unchanging - it's still a major scale - just on a different root.

So, if you learn the shapes above and learn how to connect them (they're always gonna connect in the same place) then you can play ANY major scale, you just need to move the root, which will shift the entire pattern.
Last edited by chronowarp at Feb 21, 2012,
#24
Quote by :-D
Try constructing the E major scale using that formula - what notes do you come up with?


W,W,H.,W,W,W,H
E,F#,G#,A,B,C# ??

E.F.F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C,C#,D

But what am i ment to be learning? The WWHWWWH is easy to rememeber but if someone is playing in a Key of E i can play any of these notes E,F#,G#,A,B,C#?

This is why i give up i just dont understand drives me insane.

The picture of the fret board showing each position they dont all start on a G note so how is that a G scale i thought the root note has to be G.
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#25
Quote by the_b1ues
W,W,H.,W,W,W,H
E,F#,G#,A,B,C# ??

E.F.F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C,C#,D

But what am i ment to be learning? The WWHWWWH is easy to rememeber but if someone is playing in a Key of E i can play any of these notes E,F#,G#,A,B,C#?

You need to learn all of the above. Obviously thinking about WWHWWWH everytime you want to play a solo is impractical. So while you should understand intuitively how to build the scale, you need to build muscle memory by learning patterns so that you can PLAY the scale without thinking about how to build it.

WWHWWWH is a good tool for understanding the basic concept of building a major scale, but there are easier ways to:
A. Remember the notes in each major scale and
B. Memorize how to play these scales on the guitar.

Go back and reread my last post a few times and let me know if it clicks for you.
#26
Quote by chronowarp
You need to learn all of the above. Obviously thinking about WWHWWWH everytime you want to play a solo is impractical. So while you should understand intuitively how to build the scale, you need to build muscle memory by learning patterns so that you can PLAY the scale without thinking about how to build it.

WWHWWWH is a good tool for understanding the basic concept of building a major scale, but there are easier ways to:
A. Remember the notes in each major scale and
B. Memorize how to play these scales on the guitar.

Go back and reread my last post a few times and let me know if it clicks for you.


The picture of the fret board showing each position they dont all start on a G note so how is that a G scale i thought the root note has to be G.

E,F#,G#,A,B,C# is the e major scale so i cant play those notes anywhere in any order and thats ok?
#27
Quote by the_b1ues
W,W,H.,W,W,W,H
E,F#,G#,A,B,C# ??

E.F.F#,G,G#,A,A#,B,C,C#,D

But what am i ment to be learning? The WWHWWWH is easy to rememeber but if someone is playing in a Key of E i can play any of these notes E,F#,G#,A,B,C#?

This is why i give up i just dont understand drives me insane.

The picture of the fret board showing each position they dont all start on a G note so how is that a G scale i thought the root note has to be G.


OK. Each position is like a snapshot of the fretboard from high E to low E, right? So, the root is not always going to be the LOWEST note in the position - but investigate this for yourself to validate it.

LOOK AT THE NOTES IN THAT DIAGRAM. Are they all G A B C D E F#? Yes, they are!

Does this help you?


Position 1:
|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|
|---|-D-|---|-E-|
|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|
|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|
|---|-G-|---|-A-|
      3
Position 2:
|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|
|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|
|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|
|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|
|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
      5
Position 3:
|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|
|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|
|-D-|---|-E-|---|
|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|
|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|
  7
Position 4:
|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|
|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|---|
|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|
|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|
|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|
      10
Position 5:
|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|
|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|
|-F#|-G-|---|-A-|---|
|---|-D-|---|-E-|---|
|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|
|---|-E-|---|-F#|-G-|
      12
Last edited by chronowarp at Feb 21, 2012,
#28
Quote by chronowarp
OK. Each position is like a snapshot of the fretboard from high E to low E, right? So, the root is not always going to be the LOWEST note in the position - but investigate this for yourself to validate it.

LOOK AT THE NOTES IN THAT DIAGRAM. Are they all G A B C D E F#? Yes, they are!


So using that pattern as long a i start on a G and end on G thats the scale?

So if say i wont to learn all the position of the G major i just need to learn where the G notes are and play the pattern after? Or can i just play G A B C D E F# anywhere and that will be in the key of G?
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#29
Quote by the_b1ues
So using that pattern as long a i start on a G and end on it 8 notes later thats the scale?

So if say i wont to learn all the position of the G major i just need to learn where the G notes are and play the pattern after? Or can i just play G A B C D E F# anywhere and that will be in the key of G?


Rather than answer your question, I challenge you to do this...

Print out a piece of paper that has a fretboard on it. Write out G A B C D E F# everywhere it occurs on the fretboard. You will get an identical looking fretboard to what I've posted above.

If you don't learn the positions you're going to have a much harder time in applying this information. Even if you have a great awareness of where each note is on the fretboard, you're going to have a hell of a time searching for G A B C D E F# individually everytime you're in the key of G. If instead you learn the major scale positions above you will have killed 12 birds with one stone.

You'll be able to play any major scale in any position of the fretboard.

Think of that full plotted out fretboard of G major as one object. If you want to play A major you need to take that whole block of information and move it up two frets - the entire thing. All the positions will still connect in the same way as before, but you're STARTING somewhere different.
#30
Quote by chronowarp
Rather than answer your question, I challenge you to do this...

Print out a piece of paper that has a fretboard on it. Write out G A B C D E F# everywhere it occurs on the fretboard. You will get an identical looking fretboard to what I've posted above.

If you don't learn the positions you're going to have a much harder time in applying this information. Even if you have a great awareness of where each note is on the fretboard, you're going to have a hell of a time searching for G A B C D E F# individually everytime you're in the key of G. If instead you learn the major scale positions above you will have killed 12 birds with one stone.

You'll be able to play any major scale in any position of the fretboard.

Think of that full plotted out fretboard of G major as one object. If you want to play A major you need to take that whole block of information and move it up two frets - the entire thing. All the positions will still connect in the same way as before, but you're STARTING somewhere different.


Ok i think it might have actully clicked the scale is Root to Root. and if i learn basic shape i can move the root changing the scale. To learn every scale i just need to no where the roots are.
#31
Quote by the_b1ues
Ok i think it might have actully clicked the scale is Root to Root. and if i learn basic shape i can move the root changing the scale. To learn every scale i just need to no where the roots are.

Exactly.

Possibly even simpler. Let's say you think of POSITION 1 as your "go to" position. The first note of that position is the root of your scale. That is your anchor, if you know how every other position connects to Pos 1, from 2 to 3, from 3 to 4...then all you need to do is line up your POSITION 1 for the new key and you're set.
#32
Quote by chronowarp
Exactly.

Possibly even simpler. Let's say you think of POSITION 1 as your "go to" position. The first note of that position is the root of your scale. That is your anchor, if you know how every other position connects to Pos 1, from 2 to 3, from 3 to 4...then all you need to do is line up your POSITION 1 for the new key and you're set.



I havn't got as far as linking scales yet. Ive only just started with music theory as i thought it would be a good way of creating my own music. but when it comes to jamming if we say play in the key of G i can only play the notes in the G scale?
Last edited by the_b1ues at Feb 21, 2012,
#33
I would suggest you spend maybe a day each on each position of the major scale. So first start by connecting pos 1 & 2, and see how they're related. Then move it to a different key and try to do that so you can get used to the positioning/relationship of the scale...then add pos 3 and so on.

When I first started learning music theory in high school I'd spend a lot of time just writing out scales and filling out fretboard diagrams trying to "prove" things to myself after I'd learned them...just keep going.
#34
Quote by chronowarp
I would suggest you spend maybe a day each on each position of the major scale. So first start by connecting pos 1 & 2, and see how they're related. Then move it to a different key and try to do that so you can get used to the positioning/relationship of the scale...then add pos 3 and so on.

When I first started learning music theory in high school I'd spend a lot of time just writing out scales and filling out fretboard diagrams trying to "prove" things to myself after I'd learned them...just keep going.


How do you link do you just start the scale in one position and finish it in another?
#35
Quote by the_b1ues
How do you link do you just start the scale in one position and finish it in another?

Sure, there are a lot of ways to practice it:

You can go up in one position, down in another.
You can try to shift positions in the middle of the scale
You can try playing the scale on one string horizontally across the fretboard...
You can move up a position each string

Experiment...whatever makes it more concrete for you.
#37
Sure. Try using the "patterns" options to break the scales up into positions...It's a more visually active way to test what I've tried to present to you above.
Last edited by chronowarp at Feb 21, 2012,
#38
Quote by chronowarp
Sure. Try using the "patterns" options to break the scales up into positions...It's a more visually active way to test what I've tried to present to you above.


So after a couple hours of playing i no the all the postion of the major scale. So what do i do if someone says for example lets Jam in the key of E.
#40
Quote by the_b1ues
So after a couple hours of playing i no the all the postion of the major scale. So what do i do if someone says for example lets Jam in the key of E.

This is where you have to focus on both the physical and musical aspects of the instrument. "Knowing the scale" in terms of simply knowing the fingerings isn't good enough. The patterns simply show you where on the fretboard you can physically locate the notes of a scale, but nothing more - in order to really "know" the scale, so to speak, you'll have to use it to make music. The stage of knowing the fingerings of a scale is basically like having a hammer and some nails available - you have a couple of tools to work with, but there's a whole different discipline that goes into actually creating something. As I sit here and type this, I could tell you where to find any G# on the neck, but that's no help by itself when it comes time to try to make music.

To that end, start applying the scale. Whether it's with a chord progression of your own, a backing track, some other players, or just noodling in your bedroom, start doing something that shows you what the scale actually sounds like and how to make musical ideas with it. As you get more experience playing with the scale, your fingers will become much more fluent anyway, and the idea of specific patterns on the neck won't be as big of a deal.

Also, as I said before, start learning some theory - it's a huge help.
Page 1 of 2