#1
I'm pretty decent at guitar but I want to play some songs that are playable, yet still challenging.

I can play:
YYZ
Larks Tongues in aspic pt2
One (Although I've forgotten some parts)
Devil Take the Hindmost (Up until the legato picking section around the 2:20 mark, I'm still working on that)

I tend to play alot of my own stuff but I usually pick up techniques and ideas whilst learning new material, however, I'm not too sure on what to try and learn at the moment.
I wouldn't mind some stuff with some sweep picking in it. Although I can only do 3-string sweep picking and 4-string if I really focus.

So, if anyone has any pieces that they think I could probably, learn based on the songs I've listed, I'd really appreciate it.
I'm considering going for Satch Boogie, but I'm not sure if that may be too hard. Unless it's actually easier than I make it out to be.
Breakfast, Breakfast, it's great for us
We eat, we eat, we eat
That frozen meat
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, it can't be beat
#2
No sweep piking. But some classic Van Halen could definitely get you towards Satch Boogie level. If your legato and tapping is good, try Hot For Teacher, though that's an ambitious song. Unchained, Panama or Aint Talkin' About Love are awesome. Great riffing.

Also, Satriani is heavily influenced by old blues and rock and roll music music, which shows on Satch Boogie, and Surfing with the Alien through out, so you could look into that. Maybe some Chuck Berry. Johnny B. Goode?

At the top of this forum section there is a stickied thread on songs that are good for practising certain techniques.
#3
Look at some Protest the Hero stuff, especially off their Fortress album. That album is packed with sweeping, so it'll be good practice for that technique (along with alternate picking and tapping among others).

If you want more recommendations, check the sticky.
#4
Maybe yngwies "liar". The sweep part should be manageable for you because its 3 string sweeps. The solo will be too hard yet but you could just improvise here.
#5
Pick a song and start learning it. If you come to something you can't do then practice that like it's an exercise.

If all else fails, write your own material that's just outside of what you know you can do, if you don't know what you can do then work on your awareness.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
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Album.
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#6
@facecut
Improvisation should never be used because a particular bit is too technically challenging. If it's too hard, practice more. Improvisation isn't something you use to cover up technical inadequacies.
Last edited by Geldin at Feb 22, 2012,
#7
Quote by Geldin
^
Improvisation should never be used because a particular bit is too technically challenging. If it's too hard, practice more. Improvisation isn't something you use to cover up technical inadequacies.


I wouldn't say NEVER.

I'm learning a gary moore solo by ear and i've come to a bit that i cant work out and is WAY to technical for my current level anyway, even if i practiced that lick for 4 months, i still wouldn't manage it. So i write my own lick to play over that part, the lick is not as hard as the original but it still pushes me technically.
#8
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Pick a song and start learning it. If you come to something you can't do then practice that like it's an exercise.

If all else fails, write your own material that's just outside of what you know you can do, if you don't know what you can do then work on your awareness.

That's sort of what I do really. I've made up a little melody that implements 4 and 5-string sweeping.

At the moment, sweeping is the technique I'm working most on. Mainly because I've rarely come across it in my day-to-day music (apart from Holdsworth). After I manage to get the ropes in SP I'm gonna move onto some legato stuff. However, scales is probably something I want to work on more. I've noticed that I seem to shy away from the B and high E strings when it comes to improvising and just in general. I think it's to do with the fact that the gap between the G and B is a major 3rd, as opposed to the perfect 4ths that you get with EADG.

Btw, nice avatar. Shame that VG Cats hasn't been updating as much recently, it's pretty much dead
Breakfast, Breakfast, it's great for us
We eat, we eat, we eat
That frozen meat
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, it can't be beat
#9
Personally, my inner perfectionist would insist on me playing something that sounds as close as possible to the original.

That said, your situation is a little different than just "improvise the whole solo because you probably can't play it". That's just encouraging lazy practice and it cheapens improvisation.
#10
I try not to improvise solos if it's from someone elses work.

Something about changing the original work of somebody else just feels weird for me. Probably why I'm not that good at reworking covers.

I'll always try to play things as close as possible to the original. However, I tend to have difficulty with solos that seem somewhat improvised themself. For example, I'm currently learning 'La Villa Strangiato' for my final performance for my first year. I have the skill to play the piece, but the solos are quite tricky because Lifeson tends to just go all out on them.
Breakfast, Breakfast, it's great for us
We eat, we eat, we eat
That frozen meat
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, it can't be beat
#11
Quote by Geldin
@facecut
Improvisation should never be used because a particular bit is too technically challenging. If it's too hard, practice more. Improvisation isn't something you use to cover up technical inadequacies.


That is such a twisted approach and it is sad to read. Do you actually have rules when improvisation is used and where it is forbidden?
Should you only play songs if you can play all soli even if they are bad, is that what you are suggesting? That would be retarded.
It has nothing to do with covering something up. There are many reasons why you might not play the original solo. Some are not worth your time, some are out of reach in due time, sometimes you have a better idea. There is no need to stay away from the whole song just because you can´t play the original solo or a part of it. In Yngwies case his solos are mostly improvised so it is in the spirit of the music to do your own improvisation. Sometimes I just like some ideas and acquire those and ignore the rest. Be curious and adventurous instead of uptight and narrow-minded.
#12
Quote by Facecut
That is such a twisted approach and it is sad to read. Do you actually have rules when improvisation is used and where it is forbidden?
Should you only play songs if you can play all soli even if they are bad, is that what you are suggesting? That would be retarded.
It has nothing to do with covering something up. There are many reasons why you might not play the original solo. Some are not worth your time, some are out of reach in due time, sometimes you have a better idea. There is no need to stay away from the whole song just because you can´t play the original solo or a part of it. In Yngwies case his solos are mostly improvised so it is in the spirit of the music to do your own improvisation. Sometimes I just like some ideas and acquire those and ignore the rest. Be curious and adventurous instead of uptight and narrow-minded.


No one said anything about when you might play these songs for other people or whatever but there is no reason to skip something just because you can't play it now.

You may improvise live or what ever but you should definitely at least try and learn a song properly if you're learning it at all.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#13
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
No one said anything about when you might play these songs for other people or whatever but there is no reason to skip something just because you can't play it now.

You may improvise live or what ever but you should definitely at least try and learn a song properly if you're learning it at all.


I am not saying you should skip it because you can´t PLAY it now but because you can´t LEARN it in a reasonable amount of time. If the prerequisites are not yet there and it would take years to learn a solo you should skip it for now or only pick up some licks and come back to it later.
I agree you should learn a song properly. Playing every solo original isn´t necessary in every case in order to achieve that.
Last edited by Facecut at Feb 23, 2012,
#14
Alternately, if something's too hard, practice it anyway. Use it as a means of getting better. Don't just write it off and try something different. When something is too difficult for me, I take that as an indicator that my technique isn't good enough, so I practice that passage to make that aspect of my technique improve in a targeted manner.

I never said "don't improvise". I said that skipping a challenging solo and improvising there instead cheapens the idea of improvisation, indicating that I hold the ability to improvise in high regard (as a number of my other posts on this board have indicated more explicitly).
#15
Quote by Geldin
I said that skipping a challenging solo and improvising there instead cheapens the idea of improvisation


It doesn´t. And I think I made myself clear now that I am not talking about a challenging solo. If current skill of a player and skill level of solo deviate too much its not challenging, it is exasperating and just a waste of time. Pick up some ideas and put it in your rotation, that way you benefit more and faster.
After reaching a certain level of skill the number of pieces that are exasperating will vanish and become challenging, if you are there already try to put yourself in the TS´s position.
#16
If something is way too hard for you to play, practice it. That's how you improve. Classical musicians will often tackle pieces of music that are far more challenging than those that they play regularly. My violin instructor made me practice passages from Paganini's Caprices even though I was nowhere remotely close to playing them at tempo because just practicing those monstrous technical passages improved my technique dramatically; I became a much better violinist because I tackled something monstrously difficult and, even though I cannot play those passages to this day, practiced it as opposed to shrugging my shoulders and moving on.

What you're saying implies that there are "levels" of difficulty that one has to progress through in order to improve and that you should only learn songs that are a level up from where you are currently. I disagree; we improve in leaps and bounds instead of predictable increments.

The method that has worked best in my own playing and in other guitarists I know (some of whom were students of mine, so I knew for certain what they were learning at a given time) is practicing passages that are far beyond your technical ability will improve your technique far more than practicing passages that are only a little bit beyond your ability. That's anything but a waste of time to me.
#17
Quote by Geldin
If something is way too hard for you to play, practice it. That's how you improve. Classical musicians will often tackle pieces of music that are far more challenging than those that they play regularly. My violin instructor made me practice passages from Paganini's Caprices even though I was nowhere remotely close to playing them at tempo because just practicing those monstrous technical passages improved my technique dramatically; I became a much better violinist because I tackled something monstrously difficult and, even though I cannot play those passages to this day, practiced it as opposed to shrugging my shoulders and moving on.

What you're saying implies that there are "levels" of difficulty that one has to progress through in order to improve and that you should only learn songs that are a level up from where you are currently. I disagree; we improve in leaps and bounds instead of predictable increments.

The method that has worked best in my own playing and in other guitarists I know (some of whom were students of mine, so I knew for certain what they were learning at a given time) is practicing passages that are far beyond your technical ability will improve your technique far more than practicing passages that are only a little bit beyond your ability. That's anything but a waste of time to me.


To illustrate what you say, if the song the hardest I can do is Fade To Black, I would have tried to do a song of the level of Technical Difficulties? (it's just an example )

To summarize, I have to work a piece that is totally impossible for me to do? and that's what will make me progress?
"Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur" Nietzsche
#18
Geldin is totaly right about it, I know from my own experience. When I first got electic guitar almost a year ago I was new to legato and tapping stuff that I didn't bother to practice those on acoustic guitar. So I started learning solo from The day that never comes which was 100% impossible for me to play. I didn't practiced it every day though but during the time it helped me so much and when I was finally able to play it ,it opened the door for many other things and increased my skills
#19
Quote by Geldin
If something is way too hard for you to play, practice it. That's how you improve. Classical musicians will often tackle pieces of music that are far more challenging than those that they play regularly. My violin instructor made me practice passages from Paganini's Caprices even though I was nowhere remotely close to playing them at tempo because just practicing those monstrous technical passages improved my technique dramatically; I became a much better violinist because I tackled something monstrously difficult and, even though I cannot play those passages to this day, practiced it as opposed to shrugging my shoulders and moving on.

What you're saying implies that there are "levels" of difficulty that one has to progress through in order to improve and that you should only learn songs that are a level up from where you are currently. I disagree; we improve in leaps and bounds instead of predictable increments.

The method that has worked best in my own playing and in other guitarists I know (some of whom were students of mine, so I knew for certain what they were learning at a given time) is practicing passages that are far beyond your technical ability will improve your technique far more than practicing passages that are only a little bit beyond your ability. That's anything but a waste of time to me.


I already said everything you need to know. You are talking about passages now and as you can read in my previous posts I totally agree.
#20
Thanks for the advice, guys.

I'm definitely going to try 'Hot for teacher' because I don't really use tapping that much and it'd be nice to play a piece which implements it.

I also might learn Satch Boogie, but slowed down.
I guess, with nearly all forms of practising, you should slow it down so you can understand the fine details on how to play it properly. Then you can start speeding it up to get more fluent with it.
Breakfast, Breakfast, it's great for us
We eat, we eat, we eat
That frozen meat
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, it can't be beat