#1
Hello, I'm thinking of buying a Marshall JCM 900 Mk.III its said to sound like the jcm 800.. but it only has 1 channel... what are the ways of making it like a 2 channel up? is tuning the gain down on the amp and using a OD pedal or a tube screamer as a 2nd channel a good idea? i know its possible because metallica used plexi's in 1984 i think... and they could switch between clean and OD with a pedal/switch/whatever.

so could i get good cleans and overdrive on gigging volumes?

the JCM 900 MK III 50w head is 300euro (400dollar) 2nd hand
or should i buy another JCM with 2 channels? which are a little bit more expansive and i think sound worse?
#2
The tubescreamer is a good option.
"We're content, to pitch our tent,
When the glory's evident"
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#3
Using the volume knob on your guitar will also clean up the sound
#4
A pedal, and use of the guitar's volume knob are your only options really, but using both properly will get you the results you want.
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Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#5
Get a two channel amp. Otherwise having that amp is pointless.

You can always add more gain to an amp, but you can't take gain away. And if you're just running a pedal into the JCM set clean, then what's the point of even having it? You'd be better off with a Fender or a Vox or something.

A guitars volume knob is not nearly enough to bring a high gain amp down to clean.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#6
Quote by Offworld92
Get a two channel amp. Otherwise having that amp is pointless.

You can always add more gain to an amp, but you can't take gain away. And if you're just running a pedal into the JCM set clean, then what's the point of even having it? You'd be better off with a Fender or a Vox or something.

A guitars volume knob is not nearly enough to bring a high gain amp down to clean.


fenders dont sound like marshalls?
#7
Quote by Offworld92
1. Get a two channel amp. Otherwise having that amp is pointless.

2. You can always add more gain to an amp, but you can't take gain away.
3. And if you're just running a pedal into the JCM set clean, then what's the point of even having it?
4. You'd be better off with a Fender or a Vox or something.

5. A guitars volume knob is not nearly enough to bring a high gain amp down to clean.

1. All one channel amps are pointless?
2. Yes, there are many ways to 'take gain away.'
3. If that gets the sound he wants then that's the point.
4. Wow, incredibly vague suggestion based on nothing other than perception. Well done.
5. That's not a high gain amp.

And then just to be safe:
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#8
I didn't have much trouble with my 2203 and using the volume on my R8 to control the gain.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#9
Quote by Offworld92
Get a two channel amp. Otherwise having that amp is pointless.

You can always add more gain to an amp, but you can't take gain away. And if you're just running a pedal into the JCM set clean, then what's the point of even having it? You'd be better off with a Fender or a Vox or something.

A guitars volume knob is not nearly enough to bring a high gain amp down to clean.

lolyerdumb
#11
Quote by tubetime86
1. All one channel amps are pointless?
2. Yes, there are many ways to 'take gain away.'
3. If that gets the sound he wants then that's the point.
4. Wow, incredibly vague suggestion based on nothing other than perception. Well done.
5. That's not a high gain amp.

And then just to be safe:


tubetime86 just made your statement invalid. Congrats!

I +1 this.
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#12
Pick softer.
Actually called Mark!

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#13
My suggestion is if you use both cleans and distortion frequently enough is to get a seperate, inexpensive clean amp (used of course) and run it with an AB pedal.

The volume knob may clean up the sound, but it's not a magical device like everyone makes it out to be. It still doesn't give you the wide, open, shimmery, smooth, pristine type of clean sound. It's still slightly compressed and still distorts easily, even with the lowest output pickups. Also, getting to the clean sound in this situation takes time, and is not as easy as pushing a button.

Also, even with a 2 channel high gain amp, many of them will have "channel bleed." Not sure what the technical term for it is, but it's when you are on the clean channel of an amp and you get a faint but aggravating clipping noise that only goes away if you turn the gain and volume down on the drive channel.

Use your guitar's volume knob to clean as much as possible in the mean time, but consider saving for a used Roland JC-120 and a Morley AB selector if cleans are seriously important to you. Both can be achieved for under $600.
#14
I do this with my Laney all the time. Gain at 3 or 4, Master up nice and high, hit the front end with a boost. I use the Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive. Any type of overdrive should do though.
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#15
Who says you can't clean up a high-gain amp?

I only use the lead channel on my 6505+ (don't have a footswitch) and just roll back the guitar volume and get quite an acceptable clean tone. That being said, I DO like a LITTLE bit of grit in my cleans. Then crank the guitar volume, engage TS, and away we go!
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Imagine the part of the ballsack where occasionally old poo sticks to the pubes and hardens, and you then have to pull out, but as an amp. That's an MG.


Greatest quote of all time?

I think so...
#16
Quote by Offworld92
Get a two channel amp. Otherwise having that amp is pointless.

You can always add more gain to an amp, but you can't take gain away. And if you're just running a pedal into the JCM set clean, then what's the point of even having it? You'd be better off with a Fender or a Vox or something.

A guitars volume knob is not nearly enough to bring a high gain amp down to clean.
I take it that you have never owned a tube Marshall before?

Otherwise you would not make claims like that, because anyone who has played through a Marshall, a REAL Marshall that is (like a 60s, 70s or 80s style Marshall) would never make a comment like that knowing that it is untrue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r56Ef_tAMaI

Any Marshall worth its salt will clean up with the guitar's volume knob. It's one of the long-forgotten reasons why Marshalls are revered. They clean up better than just about any other amp with picking dynamics and guitar volume control. And are basically instruments in of themselves.
Last edited by al112987 at Feb 28, 2012,
#17
Quote by tubetime86
1. All one channel amps are pointless?
2. Yes, there are many ways to 'take gain away.'
3. If that gets the sound he wants then that's the point.
4. Wow, incredibly vague suggestion based on nothing other than perception. Well done.
5. That's not a high gain amp.

And then just to be safe:


He probably meant that a one channel amp wont cut it if you want pristine cleans and high gain at a flick. And a 900 does have a decent ish amount of gain it can pull of iron maiden y tones fine, and though thats not uber br00tz, its still high enough.
#18
Quote by GS LEAD 5
1. He probably meant that a one channel amp wont cut it if you want pristine cleans and high gain at a flick.

2. And a 900 does have a decent ish amount of gain it can pull of iron maiden y tones fine, and though thats not uber br00tz, its still high enough.

1. Then he should have said that.
2. Its not a high-gain amp. It may have a decent amount of gain but its not a high-gain amp. I don't think there's a one channel high gain amp on the market anyway so the point is moot.

Not trying to be condescending, but he made five statements that were all either heavily biased hyperbole or just blatantly false. I don't care if you could derive an intelligent thought from his post with some contextual clues, the point is he didn't type one out.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at Feb 28, 2012,
#19
Quote by al112987
I take it that you have never owned a tube Marshall before?

Otherwise you would not make claims like that, because anyone who has played through a Marshall, a REAL Marshall that is (like a 60s, 70s or 80s style Marshall) would never make a comment like that knowing that it is untrue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r56Ef_tAMaI

Any Marshall worth its salt will clean up with the guitar's volume knob. It's one of the long-forgotten reasons why Marshalls are revered. They clean up better than just about any other amp with picking dynamics and guitar volume control. And are basically instruments in of themselves.


he said a high gain tube amp

not a vintage marshall

what he said is perfectly correct EDIT: teh last sentence, i mean. yeah some of the rest of the stuff he wrote was iffy

fwiw even my 18 watter when cranked to 10 doesn't get completely clean when i roll the volume back

Quote by tubetime86

2. Its not a high-gain amp. It may have a decent amount of gain but its not a high-gain amp. I don't think there's a one channel high gain amp on the market anyway so the point is moot.


soldano avenger
fryette deliverance
cornford mk50
laney gh50/100L

(granted teh last two have f/s boosts, but they're still technically single channel)
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by al112987
Yes it is if the amp is a good amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2_12Ler9B8
Right, but that's a more of a warm, bluesier clean, and it still distorts slightly. Getting a fully pristine, sharp, and open metal clean tone is different. Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under" is a good example of a pristine "metal clean."
#21
+1



That's not really clean clean, and it's not anywhere NEAR heavy modern metal distortion.



i mean i can clean things up like that too, but i can't get a killswitch engage type of distorted tone and roll back to a pristine blackface fender type of clean. not happening.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Feb 28, 2012,
#22
Quote by Ian_the_fox
Right, but that's a more of a warm, bluesier clean, and it still distorts slightly. Getting a fully pristine, sharp, and open metal clean tone is different. Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under" is a good example of a pristine "metal clean."

If one wants a pristine "metal clean," then you don't get a Marshall. You get a Diezel or a JC120.
#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
i mean i can clean things up like that too, but i can't get a killswitch engage type of distorted tone and roll back to a pristine blackface fender type of clean. not happening.

You also can't get one amp that does both of those tones.

Where did TS say he was playing metal guys?

We have zero information about what tones the guy is trying to get and you guys are all jumping up and down about clean cleans and high gain distortion. I don't remember the TS mentioning either. Besides, as I said above no amp does that perfectly and I'm sure TS knows that. How about we help the TS instead of just starting pissing matches about who has the cleanest cleans.
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Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at Feb 28, 2012,
#24


(and plenty of others will do a reasonably fender-alike clean tone)

also he mentioned metallica

EDIT: and i am trying to help the threadstarter
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Feb 28, 2012,
#25
Quote by tubetime86
You also can't get one amp that does both of those tones.
...

Besides, as I said above no amp does that perfectly and I'm sure TS knows that.
Ever play a Carvin V3?
Last edited by Ian_the_fox at Feb 28, 2012,
#26
I've heard both those amps have good cleans, but I've also heard they aren't blackface cleans.

He mentioned Metallica as a technical reference, as in 'they do it, so I know its possible.' Not as in 'that's the tone I want.'

I just think he asked a simple question and got a simple answer. He seems to be satisfied with it and have moved on... Maybe we should do the same.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#27
If one's goal is a "pristine clean" as a natural foundation for one's sound, then perhaps it's better to look more toward Fender and more "American-style" amps, while investing in some kind of overdrive pedal. Generally, el-34-equipped Marshalls and amps in that style are going to be designed to clip notably earlier and maintain a certain characteristic of natural compression.

It is possible to try to maintain some balance between the option to go clean and the option to dirty things up, and this can depend on exactly what you're going for, but it's likely that Marshalls will give you at least more of a "slightly gritty clean sound" thing at significant volumes. You pretty much have little choice but to use your volume knob or a volume pedal of some sort if you want to "clean up" the sound of a cranked one-channel Marshall.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Feb 28, 2012,
#28
Quote by tubetime86
I've heard both those amps have good cleans, but I've also heard they aren't blackface cleans.

He mentioned Metallica as a technical reference, as in 'they do it, so I know its possible.' Not as in 'that's the tone I want.'

I just think he asked a simple question and got a simple answer. He seems to be satisfied with it and have moved on... Maybe we should do the same.


i've always heard the od100 described as having blackface cleans

never actually tried one, but i've tried plenty of high gainers which had decent clean channels.

but yeah i mean if he's got his answer, fair enough. i kinda get the feeling we're all talking at cross purposes, anyway.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Quote by tubetime86
1. Then he should have said that.
2. Its not a high-gain amp. It may have a decent amount of gain but its not a high-gain amp. I don't think there's a one channel high gain amp on the market anyway so the point is moot.

Not trying to be condescending, but he made five statements that were all either heavily biased hyperbole or just blatantly false. I don't care if you could derive an intelligent thought from his post with some contextual clues, the point is he didn't type one out.


Fail.

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Jet City JCA

Quote by Ian_the_fox
Right, but that's a more of a warm, bluesier clean, and it still distorts slightly. Getting a fully pristine, sharp, and open metal clean tone is different. Dream Theater's "Pull Me Under" is a good example of a pristine "metal clean."



Also fail. Pull Me Under is with Petrucci's bridge loaded piezo pickup direct to mixer you'll never get that sound with a normal electric.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07PBxKbzSFE

^Typical metal clean

Quote by tubetime86
You also can't get one amp that does both of those tones.

Where did TS say he was playing metal guys?

We have zero information about what tones the guy is trying to get and you guys are all jumping up and down about clean cleans and high gain distortion. I don't remember the TS mentioning either. Besides, as I said above no amp does that perfectly and I'm sure TS knows that. How about we help the TS instead of just starting pissing matches about who has the cleanest cleans.



It wont be perfect, but most two or three channel high gain amps come pretty close various Diezels, Engl's H&K's, Mesa's etc. Mark V anyone?
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Feb 28, 2012,
#30
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Fail.

Engl Gigmaster
H&K Tubemeister
Laney GH50/100L
Lots of Splawns
, except for...


Jet City JCA
The high gain Jet Cities which are based on the Soldano Hot Rods are all 2 channel. The 20w single channel models are barely what I would even consider mid-gain.

Quote by GS LEAD 5
Also fail. Pull Me Under is with Petrucci's bridge loaded piezo pickup direct to mixer you'll never get that sound with a normal electric.
I have been wondering how he managed to get the sound that bright with a Dimarzio crunchlab and Roland JC-120.

Regardless, his rig has consisted of a JC-120 before, so he obviously uses it for something. Even with a regular guitar pickup you can still get a pristine-sounding clean with one.

That link was not a "Typical Metal Clean", one because it was too distorted, and two, because August Burns Red is not real metal, they're a shitty poser screamy emocore band for annoying 12 year old emo and scene girls.

2:55 in this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lAvkeioshs

Around the beginning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyQDr4ZBvAA

There's a reason why JC-120's are used by so many metal guitarists, and it's not because they are using it to play smooth jazz.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha5VAfg_7CU&feature=related

^I don't believe that was a JC-120, but it's still a metal clean, and not poser-core in the slightest.
Last edited by Ian_the_fox at Feb 28, 2012,
#31
I'm pretty sure that dan was referring to a single channel amp that has ultra hi gain tones that can be rolled back to nice sounding cleans. You'd be hard pressed to find one. Splawns don't have real nice cleans even on the clean channel, the deliverences can clean up, but not to anything cleaner than a lightly overdriven sound. He wasn't saying there arent amps with multiple channels that can do both.
#32
Quote by al112987
If one wants a pristine "metal clean," then you don't get a Marshall. You get a Diezel or a JC120.

That.

Also Al I love your new title and picture
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#33
Oh god what have I done.

At least there are some people who understand what I was saying.

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#34
Quote by Ian_the_fox
, except for...


The high gain Jet Cities which are based on the Soldano Hot Rods are all 2 channel. The 20w single channel models are barely what I would even consider mid-gain.

I have been wondering how he managed to get the sound that bright with a Dimarzio crunchlab and Roland JC-120.

Regardless, his rig has consisted of a JC-120 before, so he obviously uses it for something. Even with a regular guitar pickup you can still get a pristine-sounding clean with one.

That link was not a "Typical Metal Clean", one because it was too distorted, and two, because August Burns Red is not real metal, they're a shitty poser screamy emocore band for annoying 12 year old emo and scene girls.

2:55 in this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lAvkeioshs

Around the beginning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyQDr4ZBvAA

There's a reason why JC-120's are used by so many metal guitarists, and it's not because they are using it to play smooth jazz.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha5VAfg_7CU&feature=related

^I don't believe that was a JC-120, but it's still a metal clean, and not poser-core in the slightest.

No need to bash a band cause you dont like em dude- you come off sounding a bit like a douche that way. Personal preference exists- what you like isnt necessarily what I like, and that doesnt make me or the band in question any better or worse.

And the JC120 isnt the only amp used that gets pristine cleans. Petrucci used a Mark IV, TriAxis Channel 1 Green, then a Road King I with a Lonestar for cleans, and currently its all Mark V.

The JC has a very acoustic ish kind of sound, not quite like this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzovR0s7EbI

Still quite pristine.


That said, the cleans in the link I posted are quite similar to what you get on most of the metal songs I have heard.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Feb 28, 2012,