#1
Hey guys, I did a little google but couldnt find what I'm looking for

basically in my mix the drums sound really good and especially the kick is quite clicky and right in there. when I master hte whole track it gets all deeper and wider (the whole mix) which is good but I lose the clarity on click of the kick. it doesnt click anymore.. I guess I should EQ something differently but what exactly?
#2
What is your mastering chain at the moment?
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Quote by DisarmGoliath
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#4
Sounds like you are compressing the entire mix too much, or the mix is too loud and punch of the drums is clipping when it's being mastered.

What you hear in the DAW is not exactly what it'll sound like when it's rendered, so you have to take that into account.
#6
Many people will argue that compressing a little bit at a time is better than mastering all at once like oZone does.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#7
Quote by Vendetta V
i went compromising a bit and compressing it less. I'm actually using izotop ozone as my mastering plugin

I'll also do that read ^^

and well overal I'll be uploading these tracks already I guess

Are you using Ozone presets? Cause if so you are probably over using the multi-band compressor in that thing. I also find Ozone presets have weird EQing (prob cause its suppose to be used with the multi-band compressor) imo.

Ozone can be a great tool if you start from scratch and are careful with what you do. I believe though a lot of times Ozone makes mixes worse.
#8
Use a clipper on your kick in the mix so that it still clicks and punches without the transient eating so much headroom!
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#9
It sounds like whatever the so-called "mastering" plugin needs the compressor setting adjusted.

The specific setting you are looking for is the attack setting. By having too fast an attack, the transient is hammered down before it even has a chance to get through. You want the transient to get through, because that's the attack on your kick. Open it up to somewhere around 20-30ms and you'll start noticing the kick coming back.

That IS the problem with some of those all-in-one things, though, is it doesn't really help you learn to do it. The presets are also usually too extreme and sound unnatural, like what you're describing above, or like when the stereo widening sucks the middle right out.

You're better off learning how to use a compressor, or a series of them, and a limiter, and to get your panning right in the mix.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

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#10
What I'm wondering is, how high up in the mix is your kick? Usually the whole transient-getting-eaten-by-a-comp thing is seen in the snare, not the kick, hence the reason for all the clipping and transient design and whatever other snare mixing techniques kids these days are stealing from Joey Sturgis.

But I'll be honest, the only time I've seen a kick so loud in metal that it gets chomped by the compressor, is when it's so loud that you can't even hear the guitars when their chugs lock in with it. Which...is kind of a no-no for a lot of listeners.

And yeah, comp settings that usually work for me are between a 10-30 ms attack, no more than 2 db of gain reduction, and auto release. For me, the compressor's job is not to smash the mix ala Death Magnetic, but just to glue the instruments together a bit. The LIMITER is what I use to smash the mix
#11
mastering is not mixdown pt2. maybe you should build another mix and put a comp on the 2 buss?
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#12
thanks for the input guys, yeah I've noticed ozone does put some limitations, I may be go doing it with a couple of compressors if you can suggest me some good ones (free)
also, limiters.

anyways talking of compressing and whatnot here's what I got so far

http://vendettav.bandcamp.com/album/cookie-brownie-and-the-honey-bee-dedicated-to-armenia

the top track especially was where I wanted the kicks really vivid. How does it sound overal?
#13
Quote by fastlanestoner
put a comp on the 2 buss?


While certainly not a cardinal sin, conventional wisdom says to not do this. The reason being that the mastering engineer cannot UNdo this. If you send stuff off to be professionally done, they specifically ask that the mixes NOT be compressed, limited, etc., and they ask for peaks to be well below 0db.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#15
I can't really listen on these speakers, but a couple things I have found:

Limiters have a way of introducing nastiness. Watch, especially, for distortion on vocals as a result of bad limiting. Not saying don't use a limiter, but watch out for that as a possible artefact.

Compressors and limiters will behave differently depending on how hard you hit them. (kinda like kids... ZOIKS!! But seriously.... try this. Dial in a sound on a dynamics processor that gets you "in the ballpark." Now adjust the level of the source material going into it. Hit the compressor/limiter hard and see how it differs from when you just tickle it. Sometimes it's better to clamp down on the compressor setting, but other times you're better off just hammering it harder with the source material. (or even backing off it!)

The biggest pain in the arse to deal with when using dynamics processing is that pumping/breathing effect that creeps in when you've got it wrong. It sounds like a drunken sailor manually riding the fader. Not good. To relieve that, back off on the release time, or the input level going to the compressor, or increase the attack time before you back off on the ratio. (that is, assuming, you want to keep the same ratio and threshold)

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#19
There's a waves L1 clone called W1, there's a link in my guide that someone posted earlier that's a solid limiter for mastering.
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#20
^ Was gonna say that. Anyway, I don't really use many non-Logic-bundled plug-ins really, so I can't suggest any free ones but if you ever do have the cash my current mastering chain on most recent project is:

High Pass Filter (included with Logic Pro)
Compressor (again, free with Logic) to catch stray transients, so not used to add much volume)
Waves H-EQ (similar to Logic Channel EQ but more musical, hence I prefer this on main output)
Waves OneKnob Louder (adds a little volume pretty cleanly)
Compressor (again) or Waves CLA-76 this time to add a bit of volume
Limiter (another Logic freebie) to make sure mix will not pass -0.1 dB


Obviously it varies a bit, but I find I use the Waves stuff more for mastering than on individual channels as it is more CPU-intensive (especially as they're v8.0 rather than the older Waves stuff that is less pretty and uses less CPU). Sometims use PSP Vintage Warmer too, but rarely bother now as CLA-76 adds enough colour and 'gel' for metal mixes.
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#21
Another alternative is the Cakwealk Sonitus FX: Suite. I am not saying its better as its not Waves or from Logic, and I have never really tried them out.

http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2ceuro/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=36-CWSF3.31-10E

The Sonitus plugins are kind of old, but I use them for almost everything. They are very simple (which some may not like). Picture of compression GUI.

It includes: Delay, Compressor, Parametric EQ, Multiband Compressor, Reverb, Gate, Wah Wah, Modulator, Phase, Surround

$99
Last edited by FireHawk at Mar 2, 2012,
#22
If I could share my iLok licenses somehow for a few hours I'd let you try them out, if that makes you any happier But yeah, a lot of the Waves stuff I find overrated, hence me only owning a small handful of their products. H-EQ is amazing though, and the only EQ I prefer to Logic's Channel EQ (which is already better than any other EQ I've used, partly because of the amazing spectral analyzer but H-EQ kinda copied it on that, but does the rest of the stuff better). Actually, I think I could talk about the stuff H-EQ does for hours... Waves should pay me!!

Anyway, I think as long as the product gets you where you want it doesn't matter who makes it, but I would probably never use Ozone etc. for mastering as I prefer to have full control over what goes where and like the opportunity to choose individual comps/EQs/etc. and repeat some of the processes at different points. Ozone would encourage people to mix into presets I'd imagine, and that kind of habit can take ages to overcome.
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