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#1
So for a show, I have to plug my guitar directly into the board. When just going from the guitar to the board it sounds like absolute shit though which I knew would happen.

Anyone have any suggestions on pedals or effects processors that can help to make it actually sound like a guitar? I heard the Line 6 pods were good for this sort of thing.
#2
Both the Tech 21 SansAmp series and the AMT Legend series pedals are great for amp/cab emulation.
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#3
+1 on the sansamp
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#4
now, excuse a super nub, but what do you usually do? I thought it was from guitar, through board, to amp? Anything i'm not aware of?
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#7
Quote by Northernmight
now, excuse a super nub, but what do you usually do? I thought it was from guitar, through board, to amp? Anything i'm not aware of?

He means "board" as in "mixing board", not pedalboard...
He's connecting the guitar directly to the PA system.

Quote by chronowarp
Why are you going directly into a mixer with your guitar?

Because he can't use an amp at that show? There are plenty of reasons why someone may not have the chance to use an amp at a gig.
It happened to me before for onstage space reasons, equipment transport issues, time issues... Pretty common situation for anyone who plays live shows on a regular basis.
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#8
I was at a gig once and the guitarist's amp blew, he used a SansAmp through the PA as a backup and it sounded pretty good all things considered.

It's a hell of a lot easier than lugging two amps around!
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#9
Quote by Linkerman
He means "board" as in "mixing board", not pedalboard...
He's connecting the guitar directly to the PA system.


Because he can't use an amp at that show? There are plenty of reasons why someone may not have the chance to use an amp at a gig.
It happened to me before for onstage space reasons, equipment transport issues, time issues... Pretty common situation for anyone who plays live shows on a regular basis.

I wouldn't play a show where I couldn't play through an amp...never in my life. Never been in the predicament and never will. Common situation, my ass.

I've loaned my amp out to other bands at a show if there's was left behind, busted, whatev...A guitar straight into a the board is probably the most disgusting sound on the planet. If the venue has a board what's stopping you from putting a 57 on the cab and running it to the mixer? I don't understand?
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 3, 2012,
#10
Quote by chronowarp
I wouldn't play a show where I couldn't play through an amp...never in my life.

Lucky you. I have, a few. And judging by other people's replies, i wasn't the only one.

Quote by chronowarp
Never been in the predicament and never will.

Just hope not.

Quote by chronowarp
Common situation, my ass.

I don't know where you're from, but here in Portugal it's a pretty common situation, yes.
Get your head out of your a$$.

Quote by chronowarp
A guitar straight into a the board is probably the most disgusting sound on the planet.

I disagree. Clearly you never heard my bowel movements on a bad day.

Anyway, that's why the TS asked for something that would allow him to plug his guitar directly to the mixer without sounding awful.

Quote by chronowarp
If the venue has a board what's stopping you from putting a 57 on the cab and running it to the mixer? I don't understand?


How can you not understand? Did you actually read my previous post?
If you don't have/can't use an amp, how the hell can you mic the cab?!?!
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#11
SansAmp is a great option! I actually had to go the Line 6 route, ( X3 live, XLR out to the mixing board ). If you know how to program the units, you can get a good sound. However, there were times the monitors sounded horrible!

I do prefer to mic my cab; Audix i5 is the best in my opinion.
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#12
Quote by chronowarp
I wouldn't play a show where I couldn't play through an amp...never in my life. Never been in the predicament and never will. Common situation, my ass.

I've loaned my amp out to other bands at a show if there's was left behind, busted, whatev...A guitar straight into a the board is probably the most disgusting sound on the planet. If the venue has a board what's stopping you from putting a 57 on the cab and running it to the mixer? I don't understand?

You've obviously not been to enough small venue gigs.

Yes, a guitar straight into a board is indeed a disgusting sound, which is why clever people have invented little boxes that make it sound nicer.
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#13
Quote by steven seagull
You've obviously not been to enough small venue gigs.

Yes, a guitar straight into a board is indeed a disgusting sound, which is why clever people have invented little boxes that make it sound nicer.


How small are we talking? What type of venue? A bar? A cafe? My bands plays small venues all the time..In a place that small it probably makes more sense to just run your amp and let the stage volume carry and not even mic it...unless you have the option and want it to blend out front.

If there's a mixer - then they can mic you. Does not compute. Hang a crappy dynamic over your cab and you'll be 50x better off. Why would you ever need to run your guitar DI into the board?
#14
Quote by Linkerman
Lucky you. I have, a few. And judging by other people's replies, i wasn't the only one.


Just hope not.


I don't know where you're from, but here in Portugal it's a pretty common situation, yes.
Get your head out of your a$$.


I disagree. Clearly you never heard my bowel movements on a bad day.

Anyway, that's why the TS asked for something that would allow him to plug his guitar directly to the mixer without sounding awful.



How can you not understand? Did you actually read my previous post?
If you don't have/can't use an amp, how the hell can you mic the cab?!?!


WHY WOULD YOU NOT BE ABLE TO USE AN AMP? That doesn't make sense.

I understand if your amp breaks - that's different. But why would you be PROHIBITED from using an amp at a musical venue? Why would you prepare for a gig ... and willingly not use an amp?

My band gigs all the time, and I've never seen this or done this or seen anybody else - or heard of anybody else doing it...because frankly it doesn't make sense. I've played big venues, small venues, bars, coffee shops...whatever...same situation. We did a random show at a coffee shop last week with a tiny ass PA and mixer...and I mic'd the amp.

If I go to a show and my amp is not working. I kindly asked one of the other bands if they would mind letting me use their rig. Simple solution - I've let other bands use my amp in the past.

If it's a show where we're the only band playing, obviously I'd be there early enough to set up and sound check and realize my shit was busted/missing and go retrieve it.

That seems to cover all the bases unless you're out on tour with no connections or options - which likely isn't the case for OP. OP "has to plug directly into the board". Why does he need to do that - that's the angle I'm attacking. WHY are you playing a gig where there is the capability to mic your amp...but they're not letting you play through an amp. Does not compute.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 4, 2012,
#15
Chrono, I get where you're coming from. I've personally never been "ampless" at a gig. However as seagull rightfully pointed out, the sheer amount of tools available to let you play without an amp suggests that there's a strong market available for it.

I'd imagine certain situations where they'd be more useful than others, for example if you were unable to transport a full rig you could just chuck one of the above mentioned gizmos in your bag.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#16
Some places are just too small so it's impractical, sometimes transport limitations might mean a band can't transport an amp, sometime an amp might simply not be available, some venues might have funny power requirements, or noise restrictions where they need to be in control of volume levels and, like the situation I saw, sometimes an amp blows up.

chronowarp, you seem to think there's spare amps lying around all over the place at every venue, that simply isn't the case. Likewise in the real world there isn't always time to "set up and sound check and realize my shit was busted/missing and go retrieve it."...people have jobs, lives, kids etc...

Something like a SansAmp is a great solution as it gives you a backup you can fit in your pocket.
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#17
Quote by chronowarp
WHY WOULD YOU NOT BE ABLE TO USE AN AMP? etc


Sometimes it's not the issue that an amp, isn't allowed I can't think of a single situation were someone would book a guitar band then prohibit the use of an amp except in lieu of possible space restrictions.

But can you imagine the freedom of being able to show up at a gig with nothing but some sort of effects and amp simulator taking two minutes to set up and a guitar you see the attraction and why there IS a market for it. Personally in Liverpool I've seen two bands who had guitarists without amps, while it did confuse me when I realised what they were doing I was tempted to try it out myself.
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#18
Quote by steven seagull
Some places are just too small so it's impractical, sometimes transport limitations might mean a band can't transport an amp, sometime an amp might simply not be available, some venues might have funny power requirements, or noise restrictions where they need to be in control of volume levels and, like the situation I saw, sometimes an amp blows up.

chronowarp, you seem to think there's spare amps lying around all over the place at every venue, that simply isn't the case. Likewise in the real world there isn't always time to "set up and sound check and realize my shit was busted/missing and go retrieve it."...people have jobs, lives, kids etc...

Something like a SansAmp is a great solution as it gives you a backup you can fit in your pocket.

I'm not speaking from a hypothetical POV - I play in a gigging band. I do it all the time. I LIVE & PLAY IN THE REAL WORLD regularly.

You seem to be speaking from experience in making this argument, so I'll address it that way. Describe to me what kind of venue would be "too small" for an amp? What kind of music are you playing at a place like this? What do you mean by "too small"? The stage is too small? The venue doesn't want you to be loud (in which case you just turn it down)? If they have a mixer and PA an amp is not going to be "too loud" if you simply adjust your volume.

If your shit breaks - ya- that I could understand. But again, what kind of playing scenario is the OP in? Does he play in a rock/metal band? Is he a solo Jazz guitarist? Sounds to me like he's in a rock band, in which case 90% of the shows he plays are going to be with other bands, which means if his stuff breaks down on the spot he's not going to have an issue borrowing another band's amp for the set.

In the real world I show up at load in on time and make sure my shit is working...

I'm not really even making an argument against having something like a Sansamp, I'm simply trying to understand WHY THE OP is playing a show where he has to plug into the mixer...that's completely foreign and weird to me. I have no issue with somebody wanting to be prepared for extraneous and unfortunate circumstances, that's cool, but ... I can't even understand the frame of mind wherein you'd consider being ampless a common scenario.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 4, 2012,
#19
My situation is a bit different than the OP's, but related: I'm in a group but I don't lug my 70 pound combo to our rehearsals on the opposite side of the city (we rehearse at the singer/keyboardist's house). So what do I end up having to do? I have no choice but to run my pedalboard directly into the guy's system (he has a mixer and pa setup). I hate the sound of it, I have to practically run my EP booster dimed to get sufficient levels, and my overdrive pedal in particular sounds horrible this way, but I put up with it.

Presumably once we book some gigs, I'm going to bring my amp to them and have it miced if need be. However, from our discussions, it seems like our singer/key guy who's baby is this project, he doesn't seem to quite get why a guitar player loathes the idea of going direct live, so he suggested it (he even suggested running direct *out* from my amp into the P.A. - sigh). If I were to just roll with his suggestion, it would be horrible, so hopefully I'll have the support of the rest of the group on insisting that I play through an amp.

So there's one reason why someone might go direct live - because their bandmates insist on it and don't know any better.

Hmm - Lonestar Classic or direct in? Not even a fair question.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Mar 4, 2012,
#20
:-X Don't let him do that to you. I cry for you just thinking about the sound.

I don't know how financially flexible you are, but maybe get a cheaper combo to leave at the practice space so you don't need to move crap around. I used to leave my rig at home and just play my drummers marshall stack - made things a lot easier. Not an option for everyone, though.

Or if you're rolling in the dough try investing in an AxeFx II or something that's made for amp emulation and actually sounds good and acts as an adequate replacement.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 4, 2012,
#21
Quote by chronowarp
:-X Don't let him do that to you. I cry for you just thinking about the sound.

I don't know how financially flexible you are, but maybe get a cheaper combo to leave at the practice space so you don't need to move crap around. I used to leave my rig at home and just play my drummers marshall stack - made things a lot easier. Not an option for everyone, though.

Or if you're rolling in the dough try investing in an AxeFx II or something that's made for amp emulation and actually sounds good and acts as an adequate replacement.


Agreed. I categorically refuse. The bass player agrees with me basically. Haven't talk to the drummer but I'm sure he'll understand.

I have an old crate solid state 1x12 practise amp that I got when I was like 14, it's not great, but I would actually prefer to use that (a not-so-good amp) at rehearsals than go direct into this guy's home system. These pedals (EP Booster and BB Preamp) are meant to go into an amp.
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Mar 5, 2012,
#22
How can you play plugging your guitar directly into the P.A. ? You would only have a clean sound with no effects/od/tone control. I used to play with an amp sims pedal like the Sansamp and a P.A. system before getting my Laney amp, and it wasn't a disgusting sound at all, sounded quite nice actually.
#24
Quote by chronowarp
WHY WOULD YOU NOT BE ABLE TO USE AN AMP? That doesn't make sense.

I understand if your amp breaks - that's different. But why would you be PROHIBITED from using an amp at a musical venue? Why would you prepare for a gig ... and willingly not use an amp?

My band gigs all the time, and I've never seen this or done this or seen anybody else - or heard of anybody else doing it...because frankly it doesn't make sense. I've played big venues, small venues, bars, coffee shops...whatever...same situation. We did a random show at a coffee shop last week with a tiny ass PA and mixer...and I mic'd the amp.

If I go to a show and my amp is not working. I kindly asked one of the other bands if they would mind letting me use their rig. Simple solution - I've let other bands use my amp in the past.

If it's a show where we're the only band playing, obviously I'd be there early enough to set up and sound check and realize my shit was busted/missing and go retrieve it.

That seems to cover all the bases unless you're out on tour with no connections or options - which likely isn't the case for OP. OP "has to plug directly into the board". Why does he need to do that - that's the angle I'm attacking. WHY are you playing a gig where there is the capability to mic your amp...but they're not letting you play through an amp. Does not compute.

Want a couple specific examples i had to deal with? Fine.

About 4-5 years ago, my band at the time (a gothic metal 5-piece band) was booked to play a gig at night in a small pub. We loaded the cars with instruments, amps, PA, etc, and in the middle of the afternoon we drove there to set everything up.
When we got there, the so-called "stage" was tiny, stuck in a corner between two walls (right side and back) and the bar. The drumkit alone almost filled the "stage". We had to ask the owner to get us a few empty beer crates to improvise a small "bridge" into the middle of the audience, where our lead singer could stand.
Our PA speakers were literally in the faces of people in the first row, the stands were on the actual floor.
The amps? They returned to the cars' trunks. We (2 guitars, 1 bass) had to go directly from our pedalboards into the PA because there simply was no space where we could put the amps.

Two years ago, in the summer, my band at the time (a progressive metal trio) was booked to play in a small town, more than 30km away from our hometown, through bad roads. We were told they had everything we needed: amps, mics, a PA system, drumkit, etc. We'd only need to carry the guitar, bass and pedalboards.
When we got to the town square, there was a little wood platform, about 10cm from the ground, which shook with every little movement. The PA was an old, beat up Peavey PA system. The drumkit was a bad taste joke. The amps? Nowhere to be seen.
They weren't paying us enough to justify the trip home and back to get another car and load both cars, so we went direct from the pedalboards to the PA.

Shortly after that, our city hall organized a music festival. They booked a semi-well-known band (which they paid for) and let the local bands be the opening acts for them, as long as we played for free.
We took the oportunity, and on the specified day we showed up with all our equipment.
The headliner band was the first one to do the soundcheck, so they filled up the stage with their own equipment. After soundcheck, they refused to move it, and they wouldn't let us use it, either.
The person in charge appointed by the city hall just told all of us, of the local bands, "we're paying them, so they can decide what they want. If you want to play, you have to accept these conditions. If you don't, the door's over there."
All 3 local bands (mine included) just bit the bullet, went direct from the effects pedals into the PA system, and put on the show.


But seriously, if you never had to face this sort of predicament, if you don't even have helpful advice to offer on this subject, i don't know why you're even posting on this thread.
You're just blindingly defending you narrow-minded point of view.
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#25
I'm not defending any point of view - I'm questioning the principle and being faced with responses that paint a picture I know not to be accurate of playing live music from my own experience.

Those sound like some shitty gigs, and I feel bad you had to play them, but I hate to say they mostly sound like scenarios that could have been completed avoided by simply not playing shitty, dodgy venues, or working with ****nuts - not necessarily your fault, shit happens. But again, you're presenting scenarios when you've been ****ed - not a situation where the venue will not let you play an amp, which is what the OP seems to be describing.

My point of contention is related to willingly playing DI, not being forced in extremely rare and unfortunate circumstances after gear failure/management failure.

That was my question: What kind of venue is making you go DI into a mixer, and why?
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 5, 2012,
#26
Quote by chronowarp
I'm not defending any point of view - I'm questioning the principle and being faced with responses that paint a picture I know not to be accurate of playing live music from my own experience.

The picture people are painting IS accurate.
Life experiences differ from person to person. Also, socioeconomic scenarios vary greatly in space and time.
Deal with it, and accept that there are people living in different realities than your own.

Quote by chronowarp
Those sound like some shitty gigs, and I feel bad you had to play them, but I hate to say they mostly sound like scenarios that could have been completed avoided by simply not playing shitty, dodgy venues, or working with ****nuts - not necessarily your fault, shit happens. But again, you're presenting scenarios when you've been ****ed - not a situation where the venue will not let you play an amp, which is what the OP seems to be describing.


You feel bad for me?!?! Why? I played because i wanted to.
Good times were had, nice shows were put on (despite of the sound issues), experiences were gained and shared...

Hell, 90% of the times i had to go straight to PA, i was being PAID to play (IF i played). I don't complain much.

Quote by chronowarp
My point of contention is related to willingly playing DI, not being forced in extremely rare and unfortunate circumstances after gear failure/management failure.

That was my question: What kind of venue is making you go DI into a mixer, and why?

Not necessarily, as many people already presented different scenarios, like the one guy who doesn't want to carry an amp, just the guitar bag.

Just because you never had nor never wanted to go straight to PA, there are people out there, in this vast planet, who might need/want to.
Furthermore, there are brands making products to cater to their needs.

So, since your experience in this subject (use of amp sims, DI boxes, etc.) is absolutely zero, you don't have advice to give.
Why do you post, then?
Are you making an essay for your social studies class, to show that much interest in knowing why sometimes people go straight to PA?
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#27
I think you're having trouble reading. I have no issue with somebody resorting to an method out of desperation when their gear fails. I'm questioning why the OP is being forced to play DI into a board...when they could just mic his amp.

Let me break this down, very simply. Venue has mixer. Venue therefore has capability to mic your amp. No reason to ever DI.

The only valid reason I've read thus far is "my shit broke" which is easily disregarded with: you are playing with other bands - borrow gear for the set.

I have plenty of experience with amp sims...and DI guitar - that's how and why I know it sounds like shit, and I would never do that to myself in a live playing scenario. Unless maybe I was rich and could afford an Axe FX II, and didn't want to lug my crap around. Just because I absolutely hate it doesn't mean I don't have any experience with it, that's a pretty naive thing to say.

I had lunch with my bass player today and ran this scenario by him, and he laughed pretty hard and conceded my point - there's no reason you should ever have to DI a guitar at a venue, and if you do something is probably wrong.

And don't take it the wrong way when I say I feel bad for you. I do truly feel bad, out of empathy, for anybody that ends up at a venue and they've been ****ed by the management or whoever organized the event. If I were in that situation with my band we'd probably take our shit and leave, because that's retarded and unacceptable. But that's why we scope venues before we play them, and make sure the things we need are available.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 5, 2012,
#28
Quote by chronowarp
I think you're having trouble reading. I have no issue with somebody resorting to an method out of desperation when their gear fails. I'm questioning why the OP is being forced to play DI into a board...when they could just mic his amp.

You're the one having trouble reading, and totally missing the point even though different people already tried to explain to you multiple times.
I'm done trying to make you understand such a simple concept.

Quote by chronowarp
Let me break this down, very simply. Venue has mixer. Venue therefore has capability to mic your amp. No reason to ever DI.


Refer to one of the multiple previously presented scenarios (like lack of stage space to fit the amps, for example).

Quote by chronowarp
The only valid reason I've read thus far is "my shit broke" which is easily disregarded with: you are playing with other bands - borrow gear for the set.


Proof that you're the one having trouble reading: in one of the situations i faced that i described to you, the headlining act filled the stage with their equipment, and they refused to let the other bands borrow it.

Quote by chronowarp
I have plenty of experience with amp sims...and DI guitar - that's how and why I know it sounds like shit, and I would never do that to myself in a live playing scenario. Unless maybe I was rich and could afford an Axe FX II, and didn't want to lug my crap around. Just because I absolutely hate it doesn't mean I don't have any experience with it, that's a pretty naive thing to say.

It sounds like shit? You're not very good at doing it, then.
And yes, from your previous posts you paint a picture of having no experience with it, especially since you said "never did it before, and never will" or something like that.

If you don't want to paint a wrong picture about yourself, be careful with what you say/write.

Quote by chronowarp
I had lunch with my bass player today and ran this scenario by him, and he laughed pretty hard and conceded my point - there's no reason you should ever have to DI a guitar at a venue, and if you do something is probably wrong.

Your failure to understand different realities than your own is epic. You live so stuck in your own little world, that I'M the one feeling bad for you.

There are two sayings in my country that translated, go something like this:
"Much laugh, few wisdom."
"The blindest one is the one who doesn't want to see."

Quote by chronowarp
And don't take it the wrong way when I say I feel bad for you. I do truly feel bad, out of empathy, for anybody that ends up at a venue and they've been ****ed by the management or whoever organized the event. If I were in that situation with my band we'd probably take our shit and leave, because that's retarded and unacceptable. But that's why we scope venues before we play them, and make sure the things we need are available.

Good for you.

Most bands out here have a different approach: are we getting paid, or at least are we getting something out of this gig?
If the answer is yes, we play. No matter what. We put on a show and have a great time. Always.
As long as we're treated with the amount of respect common sense dictates, we're not leaving just because of technical issues.
We're in this business to have fun and to play our music for other people.
99% of people in the audience don't care about your guitar tone -- they care about the music, the attitude, the communication... The show.

If you're not willing to play when the conditions are less than ideal, you're either doing it for the wrong reasons, or you're a spoiled brat.
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Last edited by Linkerman at Mar 6, 2012,
#30
Quote by Linkerman
You're the one having trouble reading, and totally missing the point even though different people already tried to explain to you multiple times.
I'm done trying to make you understand such a simple concept.

NO YOU.

But seriously. Your argument is based around extraneous scenarios that tend not to happen unless you sign onto a shitty gig at a shitty venue, whereas what the OP is describing is a very specific scenario (I have to plug into the board for this show) ERGO "why'?

Quote by Linkerman
Refer to one of the multiple previously presented scenarios (like lack of stage space to fit the amps, for example).

SO you're:
Playing a place that isn't even made to accomodate music, which is your own mistake for booking the gig

Quote by Linkerman

Proof that you're the one having trouble reading: in one of the situations i faced that i described to you, the headlining act filled the stage with their equipment, and they refused to let the other bands borrow it.

You're playing with bands and people that are shady and unprofessional.

Quote by Linkerman
It sounds like shit? You're not very good at doing it, then.
And yes, from your previous posts you paint a picture of having no experience with it, especially since you said "never did it before, and never will" or something like that.

If you don't want to paint a wrong picture about yourself, be careful with what you say/write.

Oh, the typical "Dissenting view ergo deficient" cop out. You can have that one, but hopefully you'll realize the error of your ways.


Quote by Linkerman
Your failure to understand different realities than your own is epic. You live so stuck in your own little world, that I'M the one feeling bad for you.

There are two sayings in my country that translated, go something like this:
"Much laugh, few wisdom."
"The blindest one is the one who doesn't want to see."

I love being epic.

I understand reality. In reality a band probably shouldn't play a show where they don't know what to expect. They shouldn't play a show that can't even accommodate their gear on stage. They shouldn't work with unprofessional people that don't give them the tiny amount of respect that is needed to simply have a functioning set.

Quote by Linkerman
Good for you.

Most bands out here have a different approach: are we getting paid, or at least are we getting something out of this gig?
If the answer is yes, we play. No matter what. We put on a show and have a great time. Always.
As long as we're treated with the amount of respect common sense dictates, we're not leaving just because of technical issues.
We're in this business to have fun and to play our music for other people.
99% of people in the audience don't care about your guitar tone -- they care about the music, the attitude, the communication... The show.

If you're not willing to play when the conditions are less than ideal, you're either doing it for the wrong reasons, or you're a spoiled brat.

Spoiled brat? Nah. If you treat yourself with no dignity and respect then you create cyclical event where all bands thereafter are treated like shit.

There are minimum conditions that need to be meant if you're the entertainment for an event. Period. Having functional gear is far below that threshold.

So, if I can gather what you're saying, every guitarist should be prepared to plug DI at a gig and have the equipment necessary ... in the event that:
1. They somehow book a show at a venue where they can't fit on stage
1a. But they could still put the amps right off the stage, or stack them.
1b. Or could have scoped out the venue before to know that it isn't made for a full band, and they probably shouldn't play there.
2. In the unlikely event that they end up on the bill with some touring band who refuses to break down their gear on stage and won't let them use their's. Odds of this happening......well, you fill in the blank. I've played with touring bands and never been treated that way.

So, neither of these situations are common, and yet you're presenting them like they are, and like they're what's happening to the OP. I want the OP to post in here so he can tell us why exactly he had/has to plug into the mixer. That's really all I'm interested in at this point.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 6, 2012,
#31
Quote by chronowarp
Your argument is based around extraneous scenarios that tend not to happen unless you sign onto a shitty gig at a shitty venue, whereas what the OP is describing is a very specific scenario (I have to plug into the board for this show) ERGO "why'?

Not necessarily, but i'm not going to elaborate. If you didn't understand what i meant by now, you simply won't.

Quote by chronowarp
SO you're:
Playing a place that isn't even made to accomodate music, which is your own mistake for booking the gig

Our mistake? We didn't book the gigs. We were booked.
If we get paid our cachet, we play.

Quote by chronowarp
You're playing with bands and people that are shady and unprofessional.

Dumb generalization, and completely not true.

Some people who we worked with in the past may be ignorant to or misjudge the technical needs of a band, but we were never given reasons not to work with them.
We were always treated with the utmost respect and sympathy.

True, we've shared stages with bands that didn't want to share their equipment.
Does that make them "shady" or "unprofessional"? Not at all.
It makes them selfish, but they're in their right not to let others borrow it.

Quote by chronowarp
Oh, the typical "Dissenting view ergo deficient" cop out. You can have that one, but hopefully you'll realize the error of your ways.



Quote by chronowarp
I understand reality. In reality a band probably shouldn't play a show where they don't know what to expect. They shouldn't play a show that can't even accommodate their gear on stage. They shouldn't work with unprofessional people that don't give them the tiny amount of respect that is needed to simply have a functioning set.

Spoiled brat? Nah. If you treat yourself with no dignity and respect then you create cyclical event where all bands thereafter are treated like shit.

There are minimum conditions that need to be meant if you're the entertainment for an event. Period. Having functional gear is far below that threshold.

As i said above, those are two separate things.
We can be treated with respect, even if the person who booked us ignores/misjudges our technical needs.

WE are professional. We are paid to play, we do what it takes to put on the show.
If that means sacrificing tone, for example, it's fine by us. Most people don't even care about it, so it's worth playing. We gain money, fans, experience, and we have fun.

Since noone ever direspected us (or treated us like shit, for that matter), we never had a reason to pack up our things and leave. We stay and make it work.

Quote by chronowarp
So, if I can gather what you're saying, every guitarist should be prepared to plug DI at a gig and have the equipment necessary ... in the event that:
(...)

Again, false argument. I never said that "every guitarist should be prepared to plug DI at a gig".
Even though i already faced that kind of situation quite a few times, i don't prepare for it. I'm just showing that it's not unusual for someone to have to go straight to the board.

Quote by chronowarp
So, neither of these situations are common, and yet you're presenting them like they are,

They may not be common for you, but they are for me, and for all the bands around here.
Get that through your thick head.

Quote by chronowarp
and like they're what's happening to the OP.

Not true.
I presented them as an example of what can happen, since you came in here stating that "that cannot happen".

Quote by chronowarp
I want the OP to post in here so he can tell us why exactly he had/has to plug into the mixer. That's really all I'm interested in at this point.

If you're so concerned with the OP, why didn't you post anything helpful yet?
Do you plan on personally make sure that whatever condition is forcing him to plug into the mixer is sorted out so that he can use/mic an amp?
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#32
Ok, so if I'm playing in a rock band in a third world country, then I might need to DI every gig. Gotcha. I'll keep that in mind. But let's keep in my mind that my argument refers to a musician playing in a densely populated city that's known for live music. I wonder which category the OP falls into.

I don't have any advice for the OP in terms of DI (because I'd never do it - it sounds like ass) ... except DON'T ****ING DO IT, which is why I want to know why he thinks he has to.

Maybe he needs to reconsider the gig completely. Maybe he doesn't understand the technical side of things, and doesn't realize there is no issue with him being mic'd. Who knows? He knows, and that's the only question I've been in search of an answer for this entire thread. Where you at, OP?
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 6, 2012,
#33
Quote by Linkerman
Not true.
I presented them as an example of what can happen, since you came in here stating that "that cannot happen"

Also, I never said this. Strong reading comprehension.
#34
There are famous songs that have been DI'd without an amp. Led Zeppelin's Black Dog is an distored mixing console, as is The Beatles' Revolution. Of course, thats various foolery in the studio. Clean it sounds kind of sterile in a kind 80s ways but....even that can work depending on what you're doing and there have been plenty of songs recorded this way.
Of you course you're not going to get the dimed marshall stack rock guitar sound....but for that you need a dimed marshall stack if you're being authentic

If you have absolutely no other choice and don't have a DI box with a cabinet simulator my only tip is is cut out all the treble for the starting point of your EQ, guitar speakers suck at anything over 5khz which is why distortion pedals recorded directly sound like crap.
#35
Quote by chronowarp
Ok, so if I'm playing in a rock band in a third world country, then I might need to DI every gig. Gotcha. I'll keep that in mind. But let's keep in my mind that my argument refers to a musician playing in a densely populated city that's known for live music. I wonder which category the OP falls into.

LOL at the notion that Portugal is a third world country Here, let me Google that for you.
Also, my argument refers to ANY musician.

Watch the documentary "why you do this", maybe then you'll realize that not every band has everything going right for them all the time.
Apparently, everything's always perfect for you. Lucky you.

Quote by chronowarp
I don't have any advice for the OP in terms of DI (because I'd never do it - it sounds like ass) ... except DON'T ****ING DO IT, which is why I want to know why he thinks he has to.

No one ever questioned that a guitar connected directly into a mixer sounds bad.

The point in question is that there are solutions that you can use to make it sound good, like the Tech 21 SansAmp or the AMT Legend pedals.
I don't know why are you so adamant about him using/micing an amp, when there are alternatives available. And that's what the OP asked for.

Quote by chronowarp
Maybe he needs to reconsider the gig completely. Maybe he doesn't understand the technical side of things, and doesn't realize there is no issue with him being mic'd. Who knows? He knows, and that's the only question I've been in search of an answer for this entire thread. Where you at, OP?

What if he understands and knows all that, and he still wants to do it?
Did you stop for a second to consider it before barging in here all high and mighty?

Other people offered helpful advice.
You want to know why he has to do it, so you can make sure if it's possible to circumvent the issue.

Quote by chronowarp
Also, I never said this. Strong reading comprehension.

All our posts in this thread prove who's the one with a challenged reading comprehension.
Nevertheless, let me quote yourself a couple of times to refresh your memory:

Quote by chronowarp
Common situation, my ass.

Quote by chronowarp
Why would you ever need to run your guitar DI into the board?

Quote by chronowarp
WHY WOULD YOU NOT BE ABLE TO USE AN AMP? That doesn't make sense.

Quote by chronowarp
No reason to ever DI.

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Last edited by Linkerman at Mar 6, 2012,
#36
Man you're just argumentative, and I'd stop if it weren't for the simple fact that you're pure wrong.

I like the quote mining, but even when you remove them from the context they still don't say what you claim...

Let me condense this argument one more time for you. What I said, and have been saying is: If a venue has a mixer, and you have your gear, then there is no good reason for you to DI.

Now I want you to read that a few times. I want you to interpret it really carefully. He is at a venue. The venue has a mixer. All of his gear is present. There is absolutely no reason he should have to plug into the mixer. This logic doesn't necessitate that he can't be in a circumstance where something breaks or some other act-of-god prevents him from having a functioning amplifier and mic + cable to run to the mixer.

Are you still with me? OK. Good. I think you get it now, and so the conversation ends.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 7, 2012,
#37
I've played numerous times at a small venue and used only my RP500. It sounded great. I had the benefit of a quality sound system ran by a guy who was very good at it. He parked my guitar sound to the stage monitor in front of me, parked the other guitar player's sound (also into mixer from multi fx pedal) hard panned to the monitor in front of him, and centered the vocals. Bass player played through combo amp. The sound was awesome. The audience even commented so. The only house amp available was a very clean vintage Fender combo and another blues based amp, and that would not have suited our sound. We didn't feel like hauling a pair of head units and 4x12 cabs onto a stage that barely fit our 5 piece act.

If the PA setup is a strippo deal with no separate monitor channels, then I prefer to have an amp on stage with me purely for my own monitoring. I run a line out to the mixer from my RP500, and a line out from the RP to the amp on clean channel. Then I can dial in whatever sound I want with the stomp of a pedal. The amp only needs to be big enough so I can hear myself, not fill the entire venue. The main PA system handles that, and it allows the sound guy to dial in the mix entirely independent of the band's sometimes misguided audio perceptions.

Sometimes it comes down to space and setup considerations. I like travelling light. I take advantage of the tonal technology available so that I don't have to play roadie hauling gear.

Another factor is that I have my tone and sound dialed in completely on all of my presets EXACTLY how I want it. I never have to touch a knob of any kind other than setting master volume during a quick sound check.

Without getting into the classic "multifx vs amp or pedals or whatever" argument, it allows me tremendous tonal flexibility for a huge range of music, requiring no on-the-fly setup. I stomp a preset button, and done.

But that's just me...
#38
Quote by chronowarp
Man you're just argumentative, and I'd stop if it weren't for the simple fact that you're pure wrong.



Quote by chronowarp
I like the quote mining, but even when you remove them from the context they still don't say what you claim...

Doesn't it?
All the previous posts are the proof, anyone can read them.

Quote by chronowarp
Let me condense this argument one more time for you. What I said, and have been saying is: If a venue has a mixer, and you have your gear, then there is no good reason for you to DI.

Now I want you to read that a few times. I want you to interpret it really carefully. He is at a venue. The venue has a mixer. All of his gear is present. There is absolutely no reason he should have to plug into the mixer. This logic doesn't necessitate that he can't be in a circumstance where something breaks or some other act-of-god prevents him from having a functioning amplifier and mic + cable to run to the mixer.

Are you still with me? OK. Good. I think you get it now, and so the conversation ends.

The conversation doesn't end for me, because you're wrong, as i proved it multiple times.

You simply don't know what is the reason why he has to go direct -- therefore, you're just hammering the same point, sustaining your whole argument on an unknown fact: that WHY.

Since you don't know the reasons why, your whole discussion is a moot point.
Which is a simple logic you keep failing to realize.


EDIT:
Quote by cheapr2keepr
Sometimes it comes down to space and setup considerations. I like travelling light. I take advantage of the tonal technology available so that I don't have to play roadie hauling gear.

Exactly.
It may be personal preference, it may be due to space/setup issues.

But not using an amp to gig CAN be done and it IS done often.
As much as chronowarp tries to dismiss it, that's the truth.
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Last edited by Linkerman at Mar 7, 2012,
#39
"I have to plug into the board for a show"
- does not have equipment to plug in the board
- doesn't know what to do about plugging into board
- therefore it's safe to assume that he doesn't regularly plug into a mixer out of convenience or choice.
- therefore it makes absolute sense to question "why" he's doing it rather than pretending it's typical for a guitarist to be forced to plugged DI into a mixer.
- furthermore, there is no reason a guitarist should have to go into a mixer unless his gear is missing or broken, or for some reason he thinks it sounds good (terrible choice) and decides to do that - which still doesn't matter, because he isn't being FORCED to go DI at that point, which is what the OP is stating, and what every statement I've made ITT relates to.

English probably isn't your native language, so let me break this down. Can you tell the difference between these two statements:
a. I have to plug into the mixer
b. I want to plug into the mixer

You're arguing as if this thread is about "b", when infact it's about "a".

And of course I'm hammering the same ****ing point - BECAUSE I'M INTERESTED IN WHY THE OP THINKS HE NEEDS TO PLUG DI INTO A MIXER. I'm not interested in your 3rd world country experience, playing in venues that aren't even suited for music out of your own naivety. That is in no conflict with what I'm saying or even attempting to get at.

I WANT TO KNOW WHY THE OP THINKS HE NEEDS TO PLUG INTO A MIXER.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 7, 2012,
#40
Quote by chronowarp
English probably isn't your native language, so let me break this down.

It isn't, but i still write, speak and understand english as if it were.
Which you clearly don't, regardless if it is your native language or not.

Quote by chronowarp
Can you tell the difference between these two statements:
a. I have to plug into the mixer
b. I want to plug into the mixer

You're arguing as if this thread is about "b", when infact it's about "a".


That's the whole problem, you're just showing your ignorance once again.

The thing is, you don't know if it's about "a" or "b". Period.
I don't know that, and you don't know that either.

Still, my contribution to this thread applies to both situations, "a" and "b".

Quote by chronowarp
I'm not interested in your 3rd world country experience, playing in venues that aren't even suited for music out of your own naivety.

3rd world country? Naivety? You don't even know what you're talking about. That's pure arrogance.

Furthermore, YOU were the one who asked for possible scenarios where one could be faced with the inevitability of going straight to the mixer. I merely presented a few examples.

And even after being proven wrong time and time again, you still argue. Damn, you're one of the most persistent trolls i ever encountered.


Quote by chronowarp
I WANT TO KNOW WHY THE OP THINKS HE NEEDS TO PLUG INTO A MIXER.

Just to stress my point once again, you don't know if he thinks he needs to plug into a mixer, or if he actually needs to plug into a mixer.
I don't know that, you don't know that.

Still, using a SansAmp/AMT Legend/POD/etc. is a viable solution in both cases.

Got it?
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Last edited by Linkerman at Mar 7, 2012,
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