#1
Gtr1
|------------------------------------------------------|
|-------------------------------------------------------|
|--6-6-6-6-6-6--8-8-8-8-8-8--9--11-14-13-----|
|--------------------------------------------------------|2x
|--4-4-4-4-4-4--6-6-6-6-6-6--7--9--12-11------|
|--------------------------------------------------------|

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6--111111111111-111111111111--------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|2x
|--4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4--9-9-9-9-9-9--9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9----------|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Gtr2
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|--2-2-2-2-2-2--4-4-4-4-4-4--6--8------------|
|--2-2-2-2-2-2--4-4-4-4-4-4--6--8---2--4---|2x
|--0-0-0-0-0-0--2-2-2-2-2-2--4--6---2--4---|
|--------------------------------------------0--2----|
|--------------------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------------|
|--2-2-2-2-2-2-----4-4-4-4-4-4---------|
|--2-2-2-2-2-2-2x--4-4-4-4-4-4-2x----|
|--0-0-0-0-0-0-----2-2-2-2-2-2-------|
|------------------------------------------|


Cheers, my doubt is this tab.

Now being GTR1 playing an octave of C #, the GTR2 should not be playing also C # instead of an A, and forward?

PS: I don't know much about theory btw

cumpz
#3
but theres is any "rule" to do that?
Last edited by meco66 at Mar 2, 2012,
#4
Quote by meco66
but theres is any "rule" to do that?


yes. the rule is learn theory. tips and tricks are just shortcuts that will ultimately stunt your musical growth.

you could just do it all by trial and error, figure out what sounds good and what doesn't -- but that's extremely inefficient, since musicians have already written these concepts down (and have been doing so for centuries).
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#5
yes, but theres a lot

Theres is a "topic" or something like that?
#6
Quote by meco66
yes, but theres a lot

Theres is a "topic" or something like that?


Great attitude! You got a bright future in music!
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#7
Quote by mrkeka
Great attitude! You got a bright future in music!


God --'

Don't tell me that you read everything about music theory :O

If you are searching for something in a book, you go to the right page, and you don't read the entire book just for a sentence for example. --'
#8
Quote by meco66

Don't tell me that you read everything about music theory :O


There is no "everything" about music theory. You can keep going deeper and deeper.

But it's all built on very basic foundations which you, clearly, don't know.


If you are searching for something in a book, you go to the right page, and you don't read the entire book just for a sentence for example. --'


But you don't learn to read by asking somebody what the definition of "dictionary" is.

You need to learn the basics - scale and chord construction, basic harmony. This is really fundamental stuff and your resistance to learning it is obvious. And yes, if you can't be bothered, you can't expect any of us to be bothered to help you.
#9
Quote by meco66
If you are searching for something in a book, you go to the right page, and you don't read the entire book just for a sentence for example. --'


you're the type of person who would get history homework, and do it by going straight to the questions, going back, skimming for the text, and writing a mindless sentence, where i would read it, comprehend it, and answer based on my knowledge. the difference is that i know the content -- you don't.

you say that you don't know much theory. i think you're overestimating yourself. being able to tell a note on the fretboard is not "theory". it's the very basics of knowing your instrument.

say you and i go in to apply for a studio gig. and we're both tested. i know all this shit like the back of my hand, while you have to go, open a book, process it, and apply it to your instrument. by the time you even get to the right page, i'd already have the job.

seems to me you have a lot of thinking to do. and i say that to help you. i'll tell you what i tell everyone else on this forum -- it doesn't matter at all to me how much you know. in fact, the less you know, the easier it is for me, because i have less competition. and yet here i am, trying to get you to think.

your move.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#10
Quote by meco66
but theres is any "rule" to do that?

A major triad is made up of three notes a root note a major third and a perfect fifth.

If our root is A major then the A major chord is A C# E.

When you have more than one instrument each instrument can play different notes of the chord and the total sound together will create the chord. The instruments are "harmonizing" to form a chord.

In this case Guitar 2 is playing the A (root) the E (perfect fifth) and doubling the A an octave up, (this is known as an A5 powerchord). The powerchords don't have the third in them so they can be ambiguous as to whether they are major or minor. A second instrument can then play the third and fill out the sound. In this case the other instrument (guitar 1) instrument plays the major third and doubles it an octave higher.

The result is that you have these notes playing together in harmony (spread between two instruments)...
A C# E A C#
Take out the doubling and you have A C# E which is an A major triad, it's just voiced in this instance between two instruments.

there's no "rule" but you're learning as you go through exposure to music and asking questions of things that don't make sense to you. good for you for asking questions about what you encounter and wanting to understand it.

Think about instuments or voices that can only play one note at a time. They can't play the whole chord but when you have three or four of them together they can either all play the same note at the same time, or they can each harmonize by playing different notes that work together. Just because your instrument can play more than one note doesn't mean you have to play all the notes in a chord. Nor does it mean you have to play the root note of the current chord.

(If you look at a lot of vocal melodies you will notice that sometimes a vocal melody will sing the root note of the chord that is being played but will instead sing the third of the chord or the fifth much like guitar 1 in your example).

If you want to learn and play with this more then learn about harmonization and chord construction. they are not small topics though.

Mostly though think about the idea that different instruments can play different notes to create a harmonized sound. Think about different ways you might be able to experiment with this idea, then try those ideas out on your instrument (if you have a friend or are able to record yourself playing one part and then play a second part over tip) to see how it sounds.

Good luck, oh and don't worry about people being wankers to you, it's the internet and there are lots of wankers on the internet that just look for people to pick on so they can forget for two seconds that they have tiny dicks and aren't getting laid.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Mar 2, 2012,
#11
Quote by 20Tigers
Good luck, oh and don't worry about people being wankers to you, it's the internet and there are lots of wankers on the internet that just look for people to pick on so they can forget for two seconds that they have tiny dicks and aren't getting laid.


oh, no. you're onto me.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#13
I don't see why this forum can't be friendly welcoming and helpful to people when they take the time to post a specific question with specific examples. It's not like it was a general question or a difficult question.

The first response was helpful but the TS didn't understand it and more explanation was required. Since you have all the answers and know this shit like the back of your hand you could have provided a more detailed explanation (which would be teaching the guy some theory while answering his question) and provided him with a specific topic to investigate to understand this further.

"Learn theory" is a completely useless answer. If you know this stuff so well - teach him some theory and point him in the right direction.

When he explained that the sheer size of the ocean that is music theory is overwhelming and that he didn't know where to start you then told him what kind of person he is??? How th **** would you know what kind of person he is from a the limited interaction with him.

So yeah the way I see it, in this thread you were being a wanker, and as a member of this forum I wouldn't like the guy to think the general members of this forum are wankers so I'm going to call you on it. If Im' being a wanker, and from time to time I can be pretty scathing, rude, and even downright mean, I don't mind being called on it.

And yes it's true that the internet is rife with wankers that have a tiny dick and aren't getting laid. Whether you are one of them or not I have no idea. Don't take it personally, or take it personally, I couldn't care less I mean at the end of the day a minor wolf taking on twenty tigers...good luck with that.

Not really trying to be arrogant with that last sentence but I couldn't resist. On account of the usernames and all i found it humuros.

===============
Quote by SuperWeirdoUG
I feel a lot of tension going on in this thread I wonder how where it will resolve...

Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Mar 2, 2012,
#15
Quote by 20Tigers
I don't see why this forum can't be friendly welcoming and helpful to people when they take the time to post a specific question with specific examples. It's not like it was a general question or a difficult question.


i don't see how telling him to sit down and study theory is unfriendly and unhelpful. i'm telling him which path to take. you want me to walk it for him, too? if so, that explains quite a bit.

Quote by 20Tigers
The first response was helpful but the TS didn't understand it and more explanation was required. Since you have all the answers and know this shit like the back of your hand you could have provided a more detailed explanation (which would be teaching the guy some theory while answering his question) and provided him with a specific topic to investigate to understand this further.


ah, so now it was helpful. well, that's just ****ing fantastic. you know, you'd make an excellent politician. it's not my responsibility to teach this guy theory. i taught enough theory to people on this site when i first joined. i'm sick of it. people don't want to learn it, and then come bitching when they don't understand something. whether he really knows theory or not is not my business, nor is it my concern. i tried to tell the guy what he should do so he can better understand things like this, and better himself as a musician. so if he comes back and ridicules us and tells us that we're not supposed to read books, but just find a sentence or two, what do you want me to say? "okay, dude, your methods are completely correct. keep thinking like that and you'll surpass beethoven in a few days! isn't that ****ing great?! "

Quote by 20Tigers
"Learn theory" is a completely useless answer. If you know this stuff so well - teach him some theory and point him in the right direction.


it's useless again. got it.

Quote by 20Tigers
When he explained that the sheer size of the ocean that is music theory is overwhelming and that he didn't know where to start you then told him what kind of person he is??? How th **** would you know what kind of person he is from a the limited interaction with him.


where did he say that? "there's a lot!" there sure is. there's a lot to playing guitar. there's a lot of everything in life. if "there's a lot" is a valid excuse for anything for you, then i hope you can at least enjoy your mediocrity. and how would i know, you ask? well, according to you, it's impossible to tell ANYTHING about a person from the way they approach things. dude, take it from me. i know a lot about dealing with people. i'm a working musician in a city that has twice the population of your entire country. i deal with a 5-digit number of people on a daily basis. if you can't tell these kinds of things, fine. but i can. i don't need to know his dog's name, his shoe size, his family history -- all i need to see is how he approaches things. and (especially on this site) that's a simple thing to discern. if he wants to complain about how much theory there is, fine. he doesn't have to learn it, and no one has the right to make him. but then he shouldn't complain about not knowing something. because all i see is "i'm not willing to learn, so can someone teach me some shortcuts?" and as a teacher, that pisses me off. i'm sorry if that infringes on your rights, but it's not illegal to speak one's mind.

i don't give men fish; i don't have enough fish to spare. i can only teach men how to fish.

Quote by 20Tigers
So yeah the way I see it, in this thread you were being a wanker, and as a member of this forum I wouldn't like the guy to think the general members of this forum are wankers so I'm going to call you on it. If Im' being a wanker, and from time to time I can be pretty scathing, rude, and even downright mean, I don't mind being called on it.


well, the way i see it, i wasn't. fantastic! see, we're both allowed to have opinions, and by their very nature, neither of us is intrinsically right! isn't that just magical? so you're going to call me on it so he doesn't think we're a bunch of wankers. then you go on to say you have the potential to be a wanker, and do so occasionally. we can all be wankers. don't you think it's just the slightest bit hypocritical to call me on it?

Quote by 20Tigers
And yes it's true that the internet is rife with wankers that have a tiny dick and aren't getting laid. Whether you are one of them or not I have no idea. Don't take it personally, or take it personally, I couldn't care less I mean at the end of the day a minor wolf taking on twenty tigers...good luck with that.

Not really trying to be arrogant with that last sentence but I couldn't resist. On account of the usernames and all i found it humuros.


you're so funny. anyone ever tell you that you should do standup? so what you're saying is that because you have numbers at the front of your username, you're a better person, better musician, and have a bigger dick than i do? it's no wonder we don't see eye to eye on this. your perception of logic is ****ed. the funniest thing is this isn't the first time i've seen you make such ridiculous, arbitrary assumptions, comical or otherwise.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#16
I'm sorry, but I can't see how anyone can be helpful to someone after you tell them "there is no easy way - shortcuts are useless" and they reply "but it's too hard - what is the shortcut?"

And no, I obviously haven't read everything about theory... but you know what I did? I studied the instruments I wanted to play... then I read one book... then took lessons... then read another book... saw a video... jammed...

It's a never ending process... there is always gonna be a lot... and a lot more

I can't agree much with the appraoch 20tigers took, because he told the guy about harmonizing, and forming chords in different voices, etc, when the TS probably doesn't know the notes on the fretboard or the major scale or how chords are built... I don't see that as truly helpful, his knowledge remains incoplete, fractured, and without the basic foundation
Quote by Xiaoxi
The Byzantine scale was useful until the Ottoman scale came around and totally annihilated it.
#17
Personally I don't like where this thread is going because IMHO BOTH 20tigers and AeolianWolf have been helpful. I have also found both to give useful tips and I personally have been helped by both at different times in the past. This argument is useless because clearly my last post was the most useful, helpful and funny.

*edit*
PS Aeolian and 20T you should both pm for private lessons on how to make bad puns because none of you are funny enough (no offense intended obviously)
Last edited by SuperWeirdoUG at Mar 3, 2012,
#18
You don't need do discuss about this, i just didn't like the reply of @mrkeka, instead of helping just say things to track me down.....

@20tigers thanks for you explain, really help me, is that kind of help that i was looking for.....and thanks @HotspurJr finally someone tell me wich the basics are, instead saying that i have to study theory. I never know how to start cuz nobody was specific.
#19
@AeolianWolf just cuz i said the name of the note, doesn't mean that is the only thing i know about theory
#20
Quote by AeolianWolf

i don't give men fish; i don't have enough fish to spare. i can only teach men how to fish.


You didn't teach him how to fish, you told him that he should go away and learn how to fish. You didn't even point him in the direction of any relevant "Teach Yourself to Fish" manuals or resources, much less offer any practical answers to his current angling query.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#21
Quote by Hydra150
You didn't teach him how to fish, you told him that he should go away and learn how to fish. You didn't even point him in the direction of any relevant "Teach Yourself to Fish" manuals or resources, much less offer any practical answers to his current angling query.




i'm not his babysitter. you want to apply for the job? your business. i pointed him down a path, and told him that the rules, knowledge, and abilities he sought could be obtained by studying theory. sorry if you can't see it, but that's a pretty big step. you're so focused on attacking me (and don't say you're not, because you could have just as easily posted those resources without dragging me back in) that you can't even see it.

now i suggest you get out of here before 20T comes back with a terrible pun about hydra and fishing.

Quote by meco66
@AeolianWolf just cuz i said the name of the note, doesn't mean that is the only thing i know about theory


you sure? because you also said this:

Quote by meco66
I never know how to start cuz nobody was specific.


between telling me you know some theory and you don't know how to start studying it, i'm still not convinced you have the foundation required to make use of the information 20T gave you. but that's not really my business. it's up to you to do with it what you will. you have the information now. if you put in the work, you can make great use of it.

just remember that music (and life in general) is nowhere near as easy as opening a book to a page and getting a sentence or two off it.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#22
Quote by AeolianWolf


i'm not his babysitter. you want to apply for the job? your business. i pointed him down a path, and told him that the rules, knowledge, and abilities he sought could be obtained by studying theory. sorry if you can't see it, but that's a pretty big step. you're so focused on attacking me (and don't say you're not, because you could have just as easily posted those resources without dragging me back in) that you can't even see it.

now i suggest you get out of here before 20T comes back with a terrible pun about hydra and fishing.


You sound kinda paranoid, always so defensive. Im not out to argue with you (although you obviously enjoy arguing), I just noticed you and 20Tigers bitching at each other about who was actually being helpful and I disagreed with your statement that you showed TS down a path to study - you didnt, you just told him that there was a path. (gah, too many metaphors)
Telling him that he needs to learn theory isn't being helpful - he knows that he lacks theory knowledge, that's obvious - telling him where or from what he should learn theory, or addressing his specific question and explaining some of the basics yourself and telling him to how to go further, would have been more helpful.

If I go into every thread in this sub-forum and paste "you should learn some thoery, TS" am I being helpful? Or am I stating the obvious? It's true, but it's not helpful. Every threadstarter in MT has navigated to MT because they know they are lacking in theory knowledge and are looking for theory advice/help. Starting to learn theory can be pretty daunting and there is a lot of misinformation out there, that's what this forum is for.

You were right to criticize TS for not wanting to gain a general understanding of music theory though - he isn't going to get far with that attitude. It's just that you can seem very obnoxious, perhaps you should just stick to posting in threads that you feel are worthy of your considerable theoretical knowledge (not sarcasm, you clearly know your shit) - less threads will be derailed with people thinking you're an asshole that way.

Thanks for calling me badass btw.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 3, 2012,
#23
When i learn some theory, i go just for some random stuff, and never followed a certain steps, that everyone call "the basics"....

And just cuz you know a lot about a subject doens't mean that you can be arrogant for another person that is starting or learning
#24
Quote by meco66

And just cuz you know a lot about a subject doens't mean that you can be arrogant for another person that is starting or learning


Very true.

Quote by meco66
When i learn some theory, i go just for some random stuff, and never followed a certain steps, that everyone call "the basics"....


This is why some people seem 'arrogant' though - you're going about learning theory the wrong way, and people here dont want to answer lots of specific questions you might have when you arent even attempting to gain a general understanding yourself.

Read these articles;

The Ultimate Guide To Guitar: Part I

or these articles;

The Crusade: Part I

Learn the notes of the fretboard, then look into how to construct and harmonise the major scale (ie how to build chords from the scale), which will help you understand keys and chord progressions. All that stuff and much more is covered in those articles.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#25
ITT: People getting Butthurt.

AW's response was fine, if the TS asked him fwhere to start I'm sure he would have given some resources like musictheory.net or a textbook, instead the rest of you got mad because you spent 20 minutes writing out a few paragraphs on **** the TS won't understand and think AW is being lazy.
#26
Thanks everyone that helped in some way...

@20Tigers so if one guitar plays C D E, the other one plays E F# G# right?
#27
BTW, i'm not a musician and i do not pretend to be one, i just wanna have fun, and have some knowledges of guitar, i don't need to be an expert
#28
Quote by meco66
BTW, i'm not a musician and i do not pretend to be one, i just wanna have fun, and have some knowledges of guitar, i don't need to be an expert


this is exactly the kind of attitude i'm talking about. you can rationalize anything however you like, but all i hear are excuses about how you don't need to actually put work into anything. yeah, i'm a professional musician, but it's not like i don't enjoy music as well.

but this isn't my war to fight -- your life is yours to live, not mine. so i'm out. peace.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Mar 4, 2012,
#29
Quote by meco66
BTW, i'm not a musician and i do not pretend to be one, i just wanna have fun, and have some knowledges of guitar, i don't need to be an expert

+1. Fair play. It's your relaxation and chillin' time. People don't go to dance classes to be like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. That's just their way of having fun and relaxing.
#30
Quote by Hydra150
Every threadstarter in MT has navigated to MT because they know they are lacking in theory knowledge and are looking for theory advice/help.

To be fair, this is a pretty significant exaggeration.
#31
Quote by :-D
To be fair, this is a pretty significant exaggeration.


Perhaps is is.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#32
It's not meant as an attack, by the way, just saying if you think that every TS is aware of a lack in knowledge and wants advice, go read some of our more entertaining threads throughout the history of the forum as you've probably missed some of our more colorful characters.

It's hours of unimaginable entertainment.
#33
Quote by AeolianWolf
this is exactly the kind of attitude i'm talking about. you can rationalize anything however you like, but all i hear are excuses about how you don't need to actually put work into anything. yeah, i'm a professional musician, but it's not like i don't enjoy music as well.

but this isn't my war to fight -- your life is yours to live, not mine. so i'm out. peace.



I see your point, and if i could of course i would love to learn a lot about music and etc, but unfortunately i can't, so i keep it as a hobby, cuz i have to do something to live ...

I don't mean that you don't like music, music exists to be enjoyed for everyone, so don't get me wrong when i say that my aspirations aren't that big
#34
Quote by :-D
It's not meant as an attack, by the way


I didnt see it as one, you're right. I was obviously just so focused on attacking AeolianWolf that I saw fit to twist facts to suit my own diabolical intentions.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#36
Quote by meco66
so if one guitar plays C D E, the other one plays E F# G# right?

That would be "harmonizing in major thirds".

The best way to find out if it works is to play it and listen. If it sounds good to you, then it works. If it sounds wrong then try to pinpoint what about it sounded wrong and see if you can make it sound better by changing something.

If you were in the key of C you might make it all "diatonic" to the key of C major by sticking to the notes that are naturally in that key. This would result in the second line would be E F G and create intervals of major and minor thirds. You can try this on one guitar to hear how the notes work together...

|-0---1---3
|------------
|------------
|------0---2
|-3---------
|------------

You don't have to stick to thirds either. Some intervals could be fifths, or any other interval that sounds good.

You asked if there is a rule for that kind of thing - there is. The rule is this: Two instruments playing together do not have to play the same thing at the same time - they just have to sound good together.

I know it's kind of non specific but you've got the basic idea now so play with it, have fun, and find stuff that works and stuff that doesn't.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Mar 4, 2012,