#1
Earlier I was thinking about the Harmonic minor scale harmonization and the chords you can build out of it. I noticed that a D minor chords shares the notes D, A, F with the Bm7b5 chord. I am wondering if its possible to play Bm7b5 instead of Dm in a minor progression.

PS: I tried a quick search on wikipedia but that giant wall-o-text killed me so dont send me there please =.=
#2
It's certainly possible. Does it sound good?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 3, 2012,
#3
Quote by tappooh
Earlier I was thinking about the Harmonic minor scale harmonization and the chords you can build out of it. I noticed that a D minor chords shares the notes D, A, F with the Bm7b5 chord. I am wondering if its possible to play Bm7b5 instead of Dm in a minor progression.


congratulations, you have found melodic minor. but i would hardly call that a substitution -- in the key of D minor, Dm and Bm7b5 are hardly going to have a similar function.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#4
Quote by AeolianWolf
congratulations, you have found melodic minor. but i would hardly call that a substitution -- in the key of D minor, Dm and Bm7b5 are hardly going to have a similar function.

Whoops, i forgot to mention i was talking about the key of A minor.
Also, what do you mean i found melodic minor? Do you mean m7b5 chords are typical of the melodic minor scale?
#5
Quote by AeolianWolf
congratulations, you have found melodic minor. but i would hardly call that a substitution -- in the key of D minor, Dm and Bm7b5 are hardly going to have a similar function.

This +1
#6
Quote by tappooh
Whoops, i forgot to mention i was talking about the key of A minor.
Also, what do you mean i found melodic minor? Do you mean m7b5 chords are typical of the melodic minor scale?


in A minor? they'd have a similar function - Bm7b5 and Dm would both usually function as a predominant.

in melodic minor, the chord built off of the sixth degree is a m7b5 chord. so in D minor, that'd equate to Bm7b5.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#7
Quote by tappooh
Whoops, i forgot to mention i was talking about the key of A minor.
Also, what do you mean i found melodic minor? Do you mean m7b5 chords are typical of the melodic minor scale?



Right in the key of Am, both Dm and Bm7b5 share the same function. Definitely substitutable.
shred is gaudy music
#8
Quote by AeolianWolf
in A minor? they'd have a similar function - Bm7b5 and Dm would both usually function as a predominant.

in melodic minor, the chord built off of the sixth degree is a m7b5 chord. so in D minor, that'd equate to Bm7b5.

Hey, thanks for the reply!
My next question is - how would you know if its alright to substitute one chord for another? How do you know they are going to have the same function?
#9
Quote by tappooh
Hey, thanks for the reply!
My next question is - how would you know if its alright to substitute one chord for another? How do you know they are going to have the same function?


typically i consult theory for something like that. generally speaking, though, if chords share similar notes, they're generally good for substitution -- generally. exceptions absolutely do exist. the more you know about chord function within a key, the better equipped you are to recognize when a substitution will be effective or not.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#10
Quote by tappooh
Hey, thanks for the reply!
My next question is - how would you know if its alright to substitute one chord for another? How do you know they are going to have the same function?

Chords that sub well for each other are generally split in to families.

In a major key: I - iii - vi; ii - IV; V - vii

and the same for minor keys, although there can be some variation with the last family.

In a minor key: i - III - VI; ii - iv; v - VII (can be different).
#12
Here are some nice ideas you can try over this progression:
I - vi - ii - V

(play it through as a whole to notice the difference well).

C - Am - Dm - G

C - Dbdim7 - Dm - G
Em - Eb7 - Dm - G
C - Am - Fm - Bb7
C


Edit:

Quote by tappooh
How many notes in common should a chord have in order to be worthy of substitution? Is there a specific number or the more the better?

Also, is it possible to substitute a regular root 3rd 5th chord with a seventh chord?


There isn't a definite answer, you should really go through (jazz/classical) music theory books, to learn about what has been done, and ingrain the ones you like.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 4, 2012,
#13
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Here are some nice ideas you can try over this progression:
I - vi - ii - V

(play it through as a whole to notice the difference well).

C - Am - Dm - G

Can't resist it...

C - Am - Dm - Eb7- Ab - B7 - E - G - C
#14
Quote by mdc
Can't resist it...

C - Am - Dm - Eb7- Ab - B7 - E - G - C



Resist this:

CM7 - Am9 - Dm7 - G7b9
CM7 - Dbdim7 - D9 - G7#5
CM7 - Am7 - Fm7 - Bb7
Em7 - Eb9b5 - D7b5 - G13
C6/9

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Mar 4, 2012,
#15
Quote by xxdarrenxx


Resist this:

CM7 - Am9 - Dm7 - G7b9
CM7 - Dbdim7 - D9 - G7#5
CM7 - Am7 - Fm7 - Bb7
Em7 - Eb9b5 - D7b5 - G13
C6/9♯11

Tension beh beh, tension. Come on!

-2
-3
-2
-2
-3
-
#16
Quote by mdc
Tension beh beh, tension. Come on!

-2
-3
-2
-2
-3
-



ll

I could do better, but then chord notation is not enough, need voiceleading in hereeeeee

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#17
Quote by tappooh
Hey, thanks for the reply!
My next question is - how would you know if its alright to substitute one chord for another? How do you know they are going to have the same function?

Think less about having "x" number of shared notes and more about function.
#18
Quote by chronowarp
Think less about having "x" number of shared notes and more about function.

+1

a good way to work on this is too take a standard I - IV - V (primary chord) progression and then practicing substituting various secondary chords based on function.

example:

I - IV - V

becomes:

I - ii - V

or:

vi - IV - V

or:

vi - ii - V

or :

I - IV - vii06


experiment, listen. deal with strictly diatonic chords at 1st. focus on Major 1st and then minor.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 4, 2012,