#1
I want to start gigging out of town but have no personal transport. My band is a two-piece, so I usually prefer my amp to be mic'd up and coming through the PA anyway, since it's the only instrument other than drums (we play rock). Could I get away with gigging with essentially a practise amp, mic'd up? Something like a Fender Mustang I, anything around 11kg or less really, so I could just carry it onto the train. The drummer could carry his breakables so we'd be sorted for any gig where we could share a kit.

I've seen bands play with a 2x12 half stack turned down to almost inaudible volumes and mic'd up, and always thought... what's the point? I understand the "Ford Escorts and Ferraris both do 70mph, but Ferraris do it better" theory, but the convenience of an amp that can be comfortably carried is a huge factor for me.
#2
You can go as small as you want, really. As long as it's loud enough for the mic to pick up its sound.

I've seen people gig with mic'd up Fender Champs (those 5 watt little ones) before.
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#4
Don't mess with the Ford Escort, I love my car.
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Amplifiers:
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#5
Yeah, I don't see the problem with it. It's entirely possible to do it with a modelling amp like my Peavey Vypyr 15, although I wouldn't recommend it =P
#6
Quote by Tim the Rocker
Don't mess with the Ford Escort, I love my car.

Haha sorry. I also use a 2007 Epiphone SG G-400, it has the stock Alnico V humbuckers. Did you replace yours or do you think they sound OK?
#7
Quote by brayf
I want to start gigging out of town but have no personal transport. My band is a two-piece, so I usually prefer my amp to be mic'd up and coming through the PA anyway, since it's the only instrument other than drums (we play rock). Could I get away with gigging with essentially a practise amp, mic'd up? Something like a Fender Mustang I, anything around 11kg or less really, so I could just carry it onto the train. The drummer could carry his breakables so we'd be sorted for any gig where we could share a kit.

I've seen bands play with a 2x12 half stack turned down to almost inaudible volumes and mic'd up, and always thought... what's the point? I understand the "Ford Escorts and Ferraris both do 70mph, but Ferraris do it better" theory, but the convenience of an amp that can be comfortably carried is a huge factor for me.


So long as you can hear yourself and you trust the sound guy, its all good. Keep in mind a small amp wont let you do feedback the way large amps can and wont have as much bass response.

This Escort will thrash any Ferrari.



EDIT: Youre planning to use a modeller? Dont mic it, modelling amps have a direct cab emulated out. Use that. Tends to sound better than micing especially if its a small one like a Mustang I. They have tinny sounding 8'' speakers. A bigger one like a Vypyr 60 or a Mustang IV with a decent cab is a different matter.

That said, it would be better to get a small pedal like a Zoom G3 or a Pod HD than to mic up a small modeller.
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Mar 4, 2012,
#8
Quote by Air_Stryker
Yeah, I don't see the problem with it. It's entirely possible to do it with a modelling amp like my Peavey Vypyr 15, although I wouldn't recommend it =P

Why wouldn't you recommend it? That amp would be on my shortlist, I use a multi-FX pedal to get my sound so as far as the actual amp goes I'm looking for something cheap, attractive and light. The Vypyr 15 would fit the bill.
#10
Quote by GS LEAD 5
EDIT: Youre planning to use a modeller? Dont mic it, modelling amps have a direct cab emulated out. Use that. Tends to sound better than micing especially if its a small one like a Mustang I. They have tinny sounding 8'' speakers. A bigger one like a Vypyr 60 or a Mustang IV with a decent cab is a different matter.

That said, it would be better to get a small pedal like a Zoom G3 or a Pod HD than to mic up a small modeller.

I'm not necessarily planning to use a modeller (in fact, I'd rather not), I just used the Mustang I as an example because my friend has one for sale and it's the size/weight I'm looking for. I use a Zoom G2 pedal... What setup would you recommend? If it helps you explain, I don't understand what "direct cab emulated out" means. Pretty noob with equipment :]
#11
Quote by GS LEAD 5
^Why not just run the MFX straight to PA? I do that then again my amp is 81 pounds

I'm guessing this answers my previous post... You're saying I can connect my pedal straight to the PA and have no amp at all? I didn't know that. However, wouldn't it cause the problem of not being able to hear the guitar well on stage? My drummer in particular has complained in the past when I've mic'd my amp, saying he couldn't hear it.
#12
Quote by brayf
I'm guessing this answers my previous post... You're saying I can connect my pedal straight to the PA and have no amp at all? I didn't know that. However, wouldn't it cause the problem of not being able to hear the guitar well on stage? My drummer in particular has complained in the past when I've mic'd my amp, saying he couldn't hear it.


Turn up your sound levels on the PA monitors.

That said, the Mustang would be an improvement over that G2.

Modelling amps have a cabinet simulated output on the back/front so you can connect to a PC and record/to a PA.

Where do you live? Budget? Genres?
#13
The lead guitarist in my band gigs with a 15 watt music man tube amp. We play some pretty large venues and he just mics it up with a 57 through the PA. The tone is amazing and the stage volume is really manageable. We have a really nice PA that can handle most gigs that dont have a house PA so its no big deal.
#14
Quote by Linkerman
I've seen people gig with mic'd up Fender Champs (those 5 watt little ones) before.

Hmm, how about a 5w tube amp? I'd prefer tube because I play distorted open chords, but I thought I might need a 30w one and I can't afford that.
#15
Tiny terror= perfect gigging amp, especially when you dont need to take cabs cos you're supporting. I can carry my entire rig in one go! (bag of leads on back, tiny terror over shoulder, guitar case in one hand and pedalboard in the other)

YET it is more than loud enough for any situation ive been in!
A metal band?
Gear:
A Guitar with an LFR > Korg Pitchblack > Behringer EQ > Hardwire CM-2 Overdrive Boss SD-1 > Hardwire CR-7 Chorus>
Orange Tiny Terror >
LzR Engineering 212 cab

My other amp can run Crysis
#16
Quote by GS LEAD 5

This Escort will thrash any Ferrari.


I wish they sold proper escorts in north america
I hate mine, I'm pretty sure by horsepower they meant squirrelpower and the suspension is probably based on a '75 econoline
#17
Quote by GS LEAD 5
Turn up your sound levels on the PA monitors.

That said, the Mustang would be an improvement over that G2.

Modelling amps have a cabinet simulated output on the back/front so you can connect to a PC and record/to a PA.

Where do you live? Budget? Genres?

Monitors... good point. Do MFX pedals have these outputs too? I'm at work so can't check mine, although I guess I'll google it now. It'd be cool to play without any amps on stage, add to the minimalistic "gimmick" we've already got going by being a two-piece.

I live in the UK, in a town called Macclesfield about 30 miles from Manchester. It's a 25 minute train journey. Budget's low, I could probably spend about £150 on new equipment although closer to £100 would be more realistic (another reason I mentioned the Mustang).

Genre is alternative rock, pop melodies over fuzzy distorted open chords. Still not sure about the sound I want, I just need something that can distort open chords as much as possible without too much muddiness. It's difficult... The Mesa Boogie Channel 2 Vintage setting on my Zoom G2 is the closest I've found, with mids set high. With only one guitar I sort of need it to make a wall of sound by itself. I've tried getting similar sounds to Husker Du, The Libertines, Neutral Milk Hotel's overdriven stuff... Still experimenting really.
#18
^That one I posted a pic of has 500

Wish I could drive even one millionth as well as those WRC guys

Quote by brayf
Monitors... good point. Do MFX pedals have these outputs too? I'm at work so can't check mine, although I guess I'll google it now. It'd be cool to play without any amps on stage, add to the minimalistic "gimmick" we've already got going by being a two-piece.

I live in the UK, in a town called Macclesfield about 30 miles from Manchester. It's a 25 minute train journey. Budget's low, I could probably spend about £150 on new equipment although closer to £100 would be more realistic (another reason I mentioned the Mustang).

Genre is alternative rock, pop melodies over fuzzy distorted open chords. Still not sure about the sound I want, I just need something that can distort open chords as much as possible without too much muddiness. It's difficult... The Mesa Boogie Channel 2 Vintage setting on my Zoom G2 is the closest I've found, with mids set high. With only one guitar I sort of need it to make a wall of sound by itself. I've tried getting similar sounds to Husker Du, The Libertines, Neutral Milk Hotel's overdriven stuff... Still experimenting really.



All MFX units have a cab modelling block which can be sent direct to a PA.

What other cities are near Manchester?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digitech-RP355-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Processor-RP-355-New-/370583854219?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564884dc8b

Good deal

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/line-6-pod-xt-live-/330693626340?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4cfee049e4

Bloody good deal

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LINE-6-POD-XT-GUITAR-MULTI-EFFECTS-FX-UNIT-/160732550093?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item256c6813cd

No switch but still good
Last edited by GS LEAD 5 at Mar 4, 2012,
#19
Quote by brayf
Quote by Linkerman
I've seen people gig with mic'd up Fender Champs (those 5 watt little ones) before.
Hmm, how about a 5w tube amp? I'd prefer tube because I play distorted open chords, but I thought I might need a 30w one and I can't afford that.

The Fender i was talking about, the Champion 600, is a 5 watt tube amp.
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Mooer ShimVerb
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T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
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#20
I only play with my pedalboard. I'm gigging quite often btw. and it's like a set of single pedals with the RP355 in the end and it has a cab emulated output that goes to the PA. works a charm. no need to carry amps and cabs with you especially if youre traveling by plane and all... Im not saying this i the best tone but so far I dont think the audience has cared much about it or found my tone bothering or annoying or anything,
#21
This is great news, I'm totally just gonna use a MFX pedal. Do they just connect with a regular jack-to-jack lead, like guitar to amp?
Quote by Linkerman
The Fender i was talking about, the Champion 600, is a 5 watt tube amp.

aha, sorry

G5, thanks a lot for those links, I'll research each of them. Not trying to plug at all, and if this is against the rules let me know and I'll remove it, but if you have time to listen to a little bit of one of our songs maybe you could give further recommendation on what I should do with the sound... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKjPwvb-BoQ ("get a bass player" is the general response, but I'm not going into that)

I've only just joined this forum but I imagine you get a lot of people saying "hey listen to my band" so please ignore that if you're not interested. Just thought I'd throw it in because I'm getting a lot more great advice here than I was expecting :]
#22
If you're playing with a drum kit that's what you've gotta compete with in terms of volume. you just need to be able to hear your amp against the drum kit from your perspective. the rest is up to the PA.

my 5 watt fender champ, into a 2x12 cabinet, can be heard against some of the drummers that i jam with often. it doesn't sound clean at that volume though.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#23
I'm personally not too worried about not being able to hear the guitar on stage (although obviously I'd prefer to), but the drummer follows it so he needs to be able to hear it. Might just get a small tube amp, point it at him and use the monitors for myself. Does the Fender champ have two channels? I need a clean/OD switch, a lot of small tube amps seem to be single channel.

Edit: OR, he could wear headphones plugged into the PA desk? Any reason why that wouldn't be viable?
Last edited by brayf at Mar 4, 2012,
#24
Wattage doesn't equal volume. It depends entirely on the amp and the speaker or speakerS it's running through. Being heard with a smaller amp is not an issue if your monitor guy knows what he's doing. The biggest factor for choice of amp wattage rating is headroom. You can dime a champ, mic it up and hang with a reasonably heavy-hitting drummer, but don't plan on getting a clean tone out of it.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#25
I'm really interested in the idea of playing without an amp, MFX direct to PA desk. My worry is that it will have too much of the transistor sound, but then again, would it really be any different to running my MXF through a transistor amp and mic'ing that?

I could always buy a better MFX than the G2, like one of the ones G5 linked me to earlier in the thread.
#26
That Mustang will do just fine.
Richard

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#27
Would you have it mic'd or directly connected to the PA desk?
#28
Yes, you can gig with a small amp.

The only thing you need to take into consideration is stage volume. Some venues do not have their own monitors set up, and just use amps for that purpose. This is really the only scenario I've encountered where a small amp is a liability, and it is a pretty uncommon one these days.
#29
Yeah, the venues we're looking at all have decent monitor setups, and for any that don't I can take a Mustang and sit it by the drummer, they're pretty loud. I don't really need to hear my guitar well on stage because I know what I'm playing, and there's no bassist or second guitarist to screw up levels or anything.
#30
Quote by brayf
I'm really interested in the idea of playing without an amp, MFX direct to PA desk. My worry is that it will have too much of the transistor sound, but then again, would it really be any different to running my MXF through a transistor amp and mic'ing that?

I could always buy a better MFX than the G2, like one of the ones G5 linked me to earlier in the thread.

What do you mean by transistor sound? It wont sound any different as compared to a modeller of the same standard. Probably clearer than micing one since the mic on an amp will also pick up ambient noise.
#31
That makes sense. Sorry about repeatedly calling you G5 btw, GS :] and thanks for all the help.