#1
Hey guys im not sure if anyone heard about this but the UK police force are going to start passing some work over to the security industry.
The drawback...The security guards do not have the power to arrest!!! I can understand why this is happening (police cuts, crime increase) but to let security staff go and tackle crime without any real power is stupid to me.
What do you guys think?
You are part of the rebel alliance, and a traitor.

#4
so... do you have a news source on this?
Quote by ErikLensherr
Don't belittle it like that, your mom produces top quality stuff.



C4C
[thread="1339859"]Hammerhead[/thread]
[thread="1341152"]Anglerfish[/thread]

VOTE
Thrustor: 2012
#5
Quote by vicarious46
so... do you have a news source on this?

No sorry man, heard it a few days ago on my way to work.
You are part of the rebel alliance, and a traitor.

#7
Thread on this yesterday/day before unless I'm dreaming... it's true, but only two police forces in the country and they wouldn't have the power to arrest. I still don't really agree to it, but the only possible advantage I could imagine is that it may mean there are more officers where they're needed if they can give menial tasks to the security firms.
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
Last edited by DisarmGoliath at Mar 4, 2012,
#9
Quote by captainsnazz
BREAKING NEWS: The government is wasting some more of our money!

derp.

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#10
Quote by captainsnazz
BREAKING NEWS: The government is wasting some more of our money!

Also: actual reliable(ish) source that isn't your car: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-17245528



lolstupidbritain

Learn to police state!
Quote by ErikLensherr
Don't belittle it like that, your mom produces top quality stuff.



C4C
[thread="1339859"]Hammerhead[/thread]
[thread="1341152"]Anglerfish[/thread]

VOTE
Thrustor: 2012
#11
This has basically happened already. A lot of seemingly 'public' land is bought up by large corperations. If something goes on there that they dislike, like a protest, then they can have you removed from the area. These are vast areas of cities too, not just the area of the building itself.

I'm so glad we're free, they tell me ww2 was fought so we could be free so we must be now..
#12
Quote by Zoot Allures

I'm so glad we're free, they tell me ww2 was fought so we could be free so we must be now..


I can't believe you say things like this in absolute serious earnestness lol
My God, it's full of stars!
#13
Quote by Zoot Allures
This has basically happened already. A lot of seemingly 'public' land is bought up by large corperations. If something goes on there that they dislike, like a protest, then they can have you removed from the area. These are vast areas of cities too, not just the area of the building itself.

I'm so glad we're free, they tell me ww2 was fought so we could be free so we must be now..

this is why i joined the zoot allures fan club

281-330-8004, that's my cell phone number, hit me up on the low
#15
Quote by Dreadnought
I can't believe you say things like this in absolute serious earnestness lol

None of that stuff is false, a large amount of city centers for instance are actually owned by various corperations that are close by. You can be moved away from the area which can be a few hundred yards depending on how much is actually not 'public' property, even though it would seem as if it really is.
#16
Quote by Zoot Allures
A lot of seemingly 'public' land is bought up by large corporations.

So are you talking about privately owned property then?
#17
Quote by Zoot Allures
None of that stuff is false, a large amount of city centers for instance are actually owned by various corperations that are close by. You can be moved away from the area which can be a few hundred yards depending on how much is actually not 'public' property, even though it would seem as if it really is.
Aliens.
UG's King Neptune

Quote by AtaBorMan
You're the biggest dick we've had in the Pit for a while.
Quote by SLEESTAK_BRO
Stop talking, you have are the biggest dick the pit has seen in a while.
#18
Quote by Dreadnought
I can't believe you say things like this in absolute serious earnestness lol

Shouldn't you be off shooting foreigners or something?
#19
Quote by devourke
So are you talking about privately owned property then?

Yes, but my point is that it shouldn't be privately owned. There's a guy on youtube called cveitch who has videos that point out this problem.

If you want to assemble in a town square for instance it's easily possible that you'd be on privately owned land, even though it should really be public land, but because of this you have none of the usual rights of freedom of movement or any of that, if the owners do infact tell you to clear off , legally you have to.
#20
Quote by Zoot Allures
Yes, but my point is that it shouldn't be privately owned. There's a guy on youtube called cveitch who has videos that point out this problem.

If you want to assemble in a town square for instance it's easily possible that you'd be on privately owned land, even though it should really be public land, but because of this you have none of the usual rights of freedom of movement or any of that, if the owners do infact tell you to clear off , legally you have to.

Well it does seem awful nice of them to buy a town square and just let people roam around on it doing their business. Awful nice indeed.
#21
Quote by Zoot Allures
This has basically happened already. A lot of seemingly 'public' land is bought up by large corperations. If something goes on there that they dislike, like a protest, then they can have you removed from the area. These are vast areas of cities too, not just the area of the building itself.


Yeah, Burnley town centre has security guards who can detain people suspected of shoplifting, being drunk and disorderly, ect, until police officers arrive, which is pretty much a form of arrest.

I actualy had a bit of an altercation with some of them a couple of months ago, I rode my push bike into the pedestrianised area of the town centre, locked my bike up, did a bit of shopping and returned to my bike only to discover three security guards standing around it. Apparently they watched me arrive 'riding' the bike (which is against the rules in the pedestrianised area, I should have been pushing it apparently. I certainly wasn't aware of such a rule and had been riding my bike into the town centre for years.) on CCTV, and were just contemplating whether to cut the lock off with bolt cutters and confiscate it or not. I said that they couldn't do that as it would be theft. They said they could because riding my bike there was "illegal", I asked if an actual law had been passed about riding a bike in Burnley town centre since it had been pedestrianised or was he actualy just talking about 'company policy' rather than actual law.

Then one of them got nasty and threatened to detain me until the police arrived, so I said that he'd have to be awfully sure of his position in law if he did. Detaining suspected shop lifters is one thing, because theft is against the law, but detaining someone for riding a bike, where it may not actualy be 'illegal' to ride a bike, could be considered as illegal detention. It was a smart arse reply, which he didn't like. He suddenly went livid and another security guard had to drag him away because he was threatening to "kick my head in".

Of course, I then went straight to the security office and made a complaint about him.
#23
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Yeah, Burnley town centre has security guards who can detain people suspected of shoplifting, being drunk and disorderly, ect, until police officers arrive, which is pretty much a form of arrest.

I actualy had a bit of an altercation with some of them a couple of months ago, I rode my push bike into the pedestrianised area of the town centre, locked my bike up, did a bit of shopping and returned to my bike only to discover three security guards standing around it. Apparently they watched me arrive 'riding' the bike (which is against the rules in the pedestrianised area, I should have been pushing it apparently. I certainly wasn't aware of such a rule and had been riding my bike into the town centre for years.) on CCTV, and were just contemplating whether to cut the lock off with bolt cutters and confiscate it or not. I said that they couldn't do that as it would be theft. They said they could because riding my bike there was "illegal", I asked if an actual law had been passed about riding a bike in Burnley town centre since it had been pedestrianised or was he actualy just talking about 'company policy' rather than actual law.

Then one of them got nasty and threatened to detain me until the police arrived, so I said that he'd have to be awfully sure of his position in law if he did. Detaining suspected shop lifters is one thing, because theft is against the law, but detaining someone for riding a bike, where it may not actualy be 'illegal' to ride a bike, could be considered as illegal detention. It was a smart arse reply, which he didn't like. He suddenly went livid and another security guard had to drag him away because he was threatening to "kick my head in".

Of course, I then went straight to the security office and made a complaint about him.

like a boss
#24
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Yeah, Burnley town centre has security guards who can detain people suspected of shoplifting, being drunk and disorderly, ect, until police officers arrive, which is pretty much a form of arrest.

I actualy had a bit of an altercation with some of them a couple of months ago, I rode my push bike into the pedestrianised area of the town centre, locked my bike up, did a bit of shopping and returned to my bike only to discover three security guards standing around it. Apparently they watched me arrive 'riding' the bike (which is against the rules in the pedestrianised area, I should have been pushing it apparently. I certainly wasn't aware of such a rule and had been riding my bike into the town centre for years.) on CCTV, and were just contemplating whether to cut the lock off with bolt cutters and confiscate it or not. I said that they couldn't do that as it would be theft. They said they could because riding my bike there was "illegal", I asked if an actual law had been passed about riding a bike in Burnley town centre since it had been pedestrianised or was he actualy just talking about 'company policy' rather than actual law.

Then one of them got nasty and threatened to detain me until the police arrived, so I said that he'd have to be awfully sure of his position in law if he did. Detaining suspected shop lifters is one thing, because theft is against the law, but detaining someone for riding a bike, where it may not actualy be 'illegal' to ride a bike, could be considered as illegal detention. It was a smart arse reply, which he didn't like. He suddenly went livid and another security guard had to drag him away because he was threatening to "kick my head in".

Of course, I then went straight to the security office and made a complaint about him.

Didn't realise it could even go as far as them actually confiscating items.. But yeah, that's pretty messed up. The thing is, these places should be public. A part of a town center is by any logic going to be a 'public' space, most people would assume they'd be subject to the law of the land there. Did you get the bike back?

On a slightly related note, apparently in London there are designated 'protest areas' now, where it's illegal to protest outside of them.
#25
Quote by Zoot Allures
Didn't realise it could even go as far as them actually confiscating items..
Well that was my point for making a stand, I don't think they actualy can legaly go that far.
Quote by Zoot Allures
But yeah, that's pretty messed up. The thing is, these places should be public. A part of a town center is by any logic going to be a 'public' space, most people would assume they'd be subject to the law of the land there. Did you get the bike back?

I calmly unlocked it and pushed it away while he was raging at me and the other guards were busy holding him back.
Quote by Zoot Allures

On a slightly related note, apparently in London there are designated 'protest areas' now, where it's illegal to protest outside of them.

I can kinda understand that, for security and safety reasons.
#26
*looks at thread title*

*hovers*

"this is dumb"
If you do something right, no one will know you've done anything at all

Proud to be called Best Friends with Pastafarian96
#27
Oh good give the idiotic unaccountable thugs that work as security guards and bouncers even more power, it won't get abused at all.
#28
Aren't the private security companies here all owned by 'gangsters' and drug gangs and stuff?

Remember when that Reliance company took over the prison transportation service years ago and within the first few months so many prisoners affiliated to that gang somehow managed to escape mid-transit?

So if it is up to them to patrol the streets - then surely it'll be easier to access drugs and people won't go about causing hassle cause it won't be police, but hard cunts, who come and sort you out?

Silver lining and all that.
#30
your OP is incredibly vague. They may not have the power to arrest (in your country) but it's what they can find out. Don't forget, usually, private security companies also do private investigations, big difference, but often melted into the same pot.

They are probably doing minor investigative information collection. Things like adding patrols and presence in certain areas, increasing presence of cameras. Think of it, why pay an officer, who makes let's say 60k a year (or over they make around 80), to go look around for things that might lead to clues, to watch cameras all day, to do patrols, when they can be out on the streets doing some serious damage to crime, and they have much more power and they have the power to arrest in your case. Or they can pay a security guard, to do certain tasks, and only pay him/her 15$ an hour and not have to worry about major risks, or paying any benefits.

I find it odd that they can't arrest. In Canada, they can arrest, by simply performing a section 494 citizen's arrest, like any other citizen can do. I think the states have citizen's arrest laws also, I also heard they have more power like the ability to determine reasonable ground and such. I don't know, it varies by country I guess. But to be honest, if you're a security guard, don't arrest. Just don't even go there, it's not worth your time, effort or risk and the possibly impending shit storm you may get afterwards because you're not a peace officer. Only arrest in exigent circumstances, when it deals with serious offences, like homicide or assault or attempting suicide. Even then, if a situation like that arises, you most likely never get the chance to even try to perform an arrest and your supervisor and the cops are just a phone call away from preventing you from committing an easy mistake which could cost you tons.
Last edited by metalblaster at Mar 5, 2012,
#31
Quote by a_7_x
Aren't the private security companies here all owned by 'gangsters' and drug gangs and stuff?

Remember when that Reliance company took over the prison transportation service years ago and within the first few months so many prisoners affiliated to that gang somehow managed to escape mid-transit?

So if it is up to them to patrol the streets - then surely it'll be easier to access drugs and people won't go about causing hassle cause it won't be police, but hard cunts, who come and sort you out?

Silver lining and all that.

Not really. Maybe where you are that's common, but I've never heard of that before around here.

If the cops are going to be hiring security companies, you can bet your ass they will be doing some extensive background checks on each employee. They're not just going to say ok let's hire you guys, ready set go! Over here, some security guard related duties require to have a secret clearance or a top secret clearance (I'm talking about where I work where our company does 90% federal gvt contracts). While some clients only need a reliability screening, or an enhanced reliability. I've worked at sites, where the work is completely **** all, I didn't need any clearance. I've also worked at sites where they had to run me through the RCMP database and interpol.

If they hire ''thugs'', it's their own damn fault. If they seriously manage to do that, then I'd have to assume that they were never even a police force in the first place, if they're that ****ing stupid.

And either way, peace officers have higher power in that situation. If they found out that security guard ''thugs'' were facilitating the illicit drug industry by means of bribery and corruption, they would arrest them and that would be that. Chances are if there was even a doubt of that happening, they would cancel the contract completely and start a full-on investigation on every employee.