#1
I really love the sound of these very technical and melodic solos...like at 1:15 of this vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMB52LfCSYY

What scales are used? And am I right in saying bands like this use alot of dimished arpeggios?


I would really like to understand how you apply diminished arpeggios in a key? For example, if I was playing a song in A minor...how could I use diminshed scales and arpeggios during a solo?

Thanks for any help.
#2
Sounds like you need some basic theory. I would suggest starting at major scales. Then minor scales. Learn the intervals. Then harmonize the notes into traids. Learn how to apply traids to music.

That is the simplest way I can formulate for you.
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#3
Quote by Xter
Sounds like you need some basic theory. I would suggest starting at major scales. Then minor scales. Learn the intervals. Then harmonize the notes into traids. Learn how to apply traids to music.

That is the simplest way I can formulate for you.


I can improvise in Major/minor scales in any key for a solo...I understand chord tones and stacking 3rds and all that. What I am lacking in though is like bringing in that
really dissoant feel to solos written in major/minor keys...I really dont know much about
applying diminshed arpeggios and runs and was hoping someone could help on that.
#4
In a major scale the vii* is diminished. In a minor scale the ii* is diminished. Harmonize that into a triad. You now have a diminished arpeggio if you play the notes one by one. Simple? Yes.

If you want a lot of diminished arpeggios just play a bunch of diminished triads.

Diminished Triad = Root - m3 - b5

I listed how to make a diminished triad because I feel you truely do not understand how to make triads.
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#5
Quote by Xter
In a major scale the vii* is diminished. In a minor scale the ii* is diminished. Harmonize that into a triad. You now have a diminished arpeggio if you play the notes one by one. Simple? Yes.

If you want a lot of diminished arpeggios just play a bunch of diminished triads.

Diminished Triad = Root - m3 - b5

I listed how to make a diminished triad because I feel you truely do not understand how to make triads.


Yes...I know B diminished is in A minor...and I understand how to make a diminished triad and all that. I am just asking how would I go about basing a solo in a key like A minor but making it sound very dissonant? I get that I could just use the notes B, D , F (B dim) but surely there are more ways than just playing B diminished notes/arpeggios? Thats where I feel I am lacking...not sure where to expand from there.
#6
I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it's really mostly the major scale and whichever other scales are derived from it (especially the minor scale). There's some harmonic minor going on there too, and definitely the diminished scale as you mentioned, but as far as scales are concerned, there's nothing really fancy going on here I think - it's how he uses them.
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#7
To take a more jazz approach, think of diminished chords as dominant chords, so instead of having a chord V (say, G, in C minor), you can build a diminished chord on either the 3rd, 5th, 7th, or b9th of that chord V (so either a Bdim7, a Ddim7, an Fdim7, or an Abdim7) and they will all function as a V7b9 chord. This means any part of a solo where the harmony is dominant, or implies tension, you can use diminished chords as such.

Edit: just listened to the song OP linked to, and I agree with LordPino in that it's pretty much harmonic minor. Try phyrgian dominant if you want a more dissonant sound (a mode of harmonic minor), or double harmonic (C Db E F G Ab B in C, for example), or again the phygrian mode of the double harmonic (which is enharmonically the same as phyrgian dominant with a #7).
If you want to sound dissonant without sounding as stereotypical though, try some major scales/triads. Augmented and Harmonic major spring to mind. Lydian dominant and melodic minor can also be pretty exciting, and although are usually much more suited to jazz, it would be interesting to hear some applications of them in metal to create dissonance.
Last edited by theknuckster at Mar 5, 2012,
#8
Set up a loop of some basic chord progressions in A minor. Improvise over them. Pay very close attention to how each note/melody sounds over each chord. Try playing notes that don't fit in the key too. See which dissonances you like and use them.
#9
Quote by dvm25
Yes...I know B diminished is in A minor...and I understand how to make a diminished triad and all that. I am just asking how would I go about basing a solo in a key like A minor but making it sound very dissonant? I get that I could just use the notes B, D , F (B dim) but surely there are more ways than just playing B diminished notes/arpeggios? Thats where I feel I am lacking...not sure where to expand from there.


Learn to Sub. triads. Use your ear too. Use dissonant chord tones like a b9. It's very subjective to the degree of "dissonant" it is. You'll have to use your ear and experiment.

Chord tones can help with a lot. I gave one example above. try a b7, #13, #11 and so on. Experiment and listen. Also maybe some tritones would help.
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#11
Quote by dvm25
I really love the sound of these very technical and melodic solos...like at 1:15 of this vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMB52LfCSYY

What scales are used? And am I right in saying bands like this use alot of dimished arpeggios?


I would really like to understand how you apply diminished arpeggios in a key? For example, if I was playing a song in A minor...how could I use diminshed scales and arpeggios during a solo?

Thanks for any help.

Think less about scales. Scales are the easy part - it's what you do with them.

Think about phrasing - motif.

The most common way to use a dim7 arpeggio in this type of music is...whenever you have a dom7...do a dim7 built off the third. This will give you a 7b9 sound - yngwie does this shit all the time. A7--->C#dim7. Remmeber dim7s are symmetrical so you can just slide them up in m3's. So C#dim7>Edim7>Gdim7> Bbdim7 are all the same notes.

Anytime you want more tension building to a chord. Let's say you're going from Am to Dm, play a C#dim7 approaching to the Dm as the chord changes. That'd be a basic superimposition.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 5, 2012,