#1
hello. im rather new to music theory, i have been studying it recently and i understand some concepts.. but i have questions. ive come accross modal scales as everyone does and how they are harmonized into making chords. as like.. maj mi mi maj maj mi dim (for all seven scale degrees). what are other ways to harmonize scales into chord progressions?

also how would you incorperate the 7th in those modal chord progressions? some of those sevenths are flat (relatively) so then they could ONLY be dominant chords? idk?

lastly ive come accross licks and phrases that seem to have both the major and minor pentatonic notes in them ( blues licks ). it still sounds good.. but why can you do that even tho those major pentatonic notes are not in the minor blues pentatonic scale?

someone with a solid understanding of music theory please help, before i go crazy trying to figure it out
#2
Quote by kevinSerdynski
hello. im rather new to music theory, i have been studying it recently and i understand some concepts.. but i have questions. ive come accross modal scales as everyone does and how they are harmonized into making chords. as like.. maj mi mi maj maj mi dim (for all seven scale degrees). what are other ways to harmonize scales into chord progressions?


First things first, don't think of them as modal anything - modes are probably the quickest way for a beginner to get ahead of his or herself. They're just the way the different scale degrees of the major scale are harmonized. Don't worry about modes for now, they'll be a bit easier to grasp way down the road when you've got the basics in place.

To answer your question, you can harmonize any scale because chords can be built from any note. For now though, just focus on understanding the harmony behind the major scale (you have a good start at the moment) and everything else will make sense, I promise.

Quote by kevinSerdynski
also how would you incorperate the 7th in those modal chord progressions? some of those sevenths are flat (relatively) so then they could ONLY be dominant chords? idk?


Well, to answer your question, just take a look at the sevenths in the scale. For example, if you're in C major, you know your C chord is major - now go a seventh above the C. In C major the note is a B natural, so your chord would be C E G B.

Can you try to do the seventh chords for the rest of the scale using that same idea? It'd be more beneficial than somebody just telling you everything; if you need further clarification just say so.
Last edited by :-D at Mar 9, 2012,
#4
modal scales are simple one original scale...C D E F G A B C...and the modes would start on each note and still play the same original scale. So you would be playing some form of a Dm scale, but its not a true Dm scale because you are really playing a C scale, just starting on D...it's like that for all of them.

To go along with..the face dude...modes are a great way to make beginners lose their minds. You asked what else you could do, you could concentrate more on a chord scale, which is simply just using the notes used in any given chord. So if you were to play a Gmaj9 chord and want to solo over it, just focus on G B D F# A...

Charlie Banacos had this saying, don't play scales just play chord tones with passing tones in between. Just a different way to look at it.

The thing with the blues licks is pretty grey, we don't always know why blues works the way it does...we do, but it continues to break its' own rules all the time. I've always thought of it as even though you are playing solos with a minor pentatonic, you are technically playing over a major cchord, most of the time it's a dominant. So major 3rds can always work over a major chord. What it really comes down to is how to phrase things, which takes years and years to develop a good sense of musicality. To be able to hear something before you play it, and knowing exactly where the notes lie.

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#5
Quote by michmar389
What are modal scales? First time to hear it. Hoping for a reply. Thanks

Modal SCALES as in SCALES not as in MODES, are the 7 different scales built from a major scale.
For instance, let's say we have C major, nice and easy, no accidentals.
When we start the scale on D we have a minor scale called Dorian.
It's comparable with a minor scale but with a major sixth.
When we go to E and start it from there it's called phrygian and it's comparable with the minor scale with a minor second.
C major itself is Ionian, and the order is: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian,Aeolian and Locrian.
Now tell me, which modal scale is the oddest one and why?
Which one has a dominant seventh?
Which two are the most used in modern music?

And just so you don't sit with this question, everyone saying he is playing modal, is playing modal scales.
Only if you got someone with a music degree, you can trust them on being modal.
#6
Quote by liampje
Modal SCALES as in SCALES not as in MODES, are the 7 different scales built from a major scale.
For instance, let's say we have C major, nice and easy, no accidentals.
When we start the scale on D we have a minor scale called Dorian.
It's comparable with a minor scale but with a major sixth.
When we go to E and start it from there it's called phrygian and it's comparable with the minor scale with a minor second.
C major itself is Ionian, and the order is: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian,Aeolian and Locrian.
Now tell me, which modal scale is the oddest one and why?
Which one has a dominant seventh?
Which two are the most used in modern music?

And just so you don't sit with this question, everyone saying he is playing modal, is playing modal scales.
Only if you got someone with a music degree, you can trust them on being modal.


Well ionian and aeolian are most used, major and minor. Locrian is the oddest cause of the diminished feel. As for dominant 7th.. I think it is Mixolydian but im not sure
#7
Quote by kevinSerdynski
Well ionian and aeolian are most used, major and minor. Locrian is the oddest cause of the diminished feel. As for dominant 7th.. I think it is Mixolydian but im not sure

All correct!
But why were you doubting about the dominant 7th?
Maybe you should learn building chords of a scale or how a dom 7th maj 7th minmaj7th etc. is constructed.
#8
Quote by liampje
All correct!
But why were you doubting about the dominant 7th?
Maybe you should learn building chords of a scale or how a dom 7th maj 7th minmaj7th etc. is constructed.


was only unsure because im pretty new to music theory and dont know very much lol. but im working on getting better
#9
Quote by liampje
And just so you don't sit with this question, everyone saying he is playing modal, is playing modal scales.
Only if you got someone with a music degree, you can trust them on being modal.




i don't even buy into that modal scale crap. anyone who says he's playing modal is just playing within a key.

unless you're, you know, miles davis or something.

you guys still worry too much about modes.
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#10
Quote by AeolianWolf
i don't even buy into that modal scale crap. anyone who says he's playing modal is just playing within a key.


Yeah man, I just use them to visualise a pattern of accidentals, like the blues scale.


And this:

Quote by michmar389
What are modal scales? First time to hear it. Hoping for a reply. Thanks


was written by a spambot! Wow. Maybe they've done studies "yes if we post the word "mode" and "scale" in the same sentence we will automatically get 200 views".
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#11
Quote by AlanHB
Yeah man, I just use them to visualise a pattern of accidentals, like the blues scale.


And this:


was written by a spambot! Wow. Maybe they've done studies "yes if we post the word "mode" and "scale" in the same sentence we will automatically get 200 views".

trolol.
How did you know about the spambot?
#12
Quote by liampje
trolol.
How did you know about the spambot?


Alan knows all. And can view all accounts on your IP address/s.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#13
Quote by kevinSerdynski
was only unsure because im pretty new to music theory and dont know very much lol. but im working on getting better

If you're new to theory then the first thing you need to do is forget about modes, they're not going to be any use to you yet, if ever - you don't have the necessary foundation knowledge required to understand them.
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#14
Quote by kevinSerdynski
lastly ive come accros licks and phrases that seem to have both the major and minor pentatonic notes in them ( blues licks ). it still sounds good.. but why can you do that even tho those major pentatonic notes are not in the minor blues pentatonic scale?

Tension and release. In a blues, the 3rd sounds more stable if it's preceded by the m3rd. If you go the other way, 3rd - m3rd, there's a lot of tension there, and the phrase would want to resolve.
#15
Modes are 7 note scales. some u can use over minor progressions and major.


It does help to learn modes, but when ur writing a song is when it really helps to know them inside and out.

it adds 2 notes to the original pentatonic scale u prob are used to using so it helps out alot with versatility
#16
Quote by IbanezMan989
Modes are 7 note scales. some u can use over minor progressions and major.


It does help to learn modes, but when ur writing a song is when it really helps to know them inside and out.

it adds 2 notes to the original pentatonic scale u prob are used to using so it helps out alot with versatility


dafuq did i just read...
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#17
Quote by :-D
Don't worry about modes for now

So glad my advice from the first response is being followed.

jesus christ this forum is ridiculous.
#18
^ Its called selective reading. It happens. And the boy who said that is in his first year of playing Wolfy. We were all there once upon a time, hehe. He'll grow out of it
#19
Quote by evolucian
^ Its called selective reading. It happens. And the boy who said that is in his first year of playing Wolfy.


this isn't a shot at me, is it?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#20
Lol, the selective reading was for smiley but the explanation of the 1 year was for you, hehe. I remember those days (when I was 17 and pimply). I was so cool for knowing modes and I didn't even need a mullet.

But it wasn't a shot at you though, hehe. Was just letting you know that guy is 1 year and 1 month into playing. Sure we can let it slide for now... unless the TS says "Now that was what I was waiting for". But then again, it won't help us gettin mean with him. He'll be back to unlearn the error of his ways.
#21
Quote by evolucian
^ Its called selective reading. It happens. And the boy who said that is in his first year of playing Wolfy. We were all there once upon a time, hehe. He'll grow out of it

Even I did it.
#22
Quote by :-D
So glad my advice from the first response is being followed.

jesus christ this forum is ridiculous.


Im following your advice. Not even thinking about modes anymore
#25
Quote by kevinSerdynski
Im following your advice. Not even thinking about modes anymore


Best choice you could have made. If you stray, from this, just know that you will be sentenced to read the liampje chronicles, also known as the collective archives of all his posts from MT going back the last 2 years. In my opinion, Liam is perhaps the hardest headed user of all time in any forum...and after hitting him a million plus times with a virtual cattle prod finally HE GOT it, that we weren't kidding. Today, he actually dispenses USEFUL advice, but not after making all of us bald by us collectively ripping out our hair in frustration in the process.



Best,

Sean
#26
Dammit I Hate Modes Jesus This Is Grinding My Bananas
Just Write A Damn Song In Major Or Minor Modal Progressions Sound Whispy As Pie
#27
Quote by Sean0913
Best choice you could have made. If you stray, from this, just know that you will be sentenced to read the liampje chronicles, also known as the collective archives of all his posts from MT going back the last 2 years. In my opinion, Liam is perhaps the hardest headed user of all time in any forum...and after hitting him a million plus times with a virtual cattle prod finally HE GOT it, that we weren't kidding. Today, he actually dispenses USEFUL advice, but not after making all of us bald by us collectively ripping out our hair in frustration in the process.



Best,

Sean

I can almost assure you, modes where 1 year ago. lol.