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#1
Im thinking about getting a HT 60 watt tube amp are they any good?
Edit first tube amp anything I should know guy at guitar center said tubes can play louder than what they say is this true?
Last edited by VoxSG at Mar 12, 2012,
#2
Tubes are much louder than solid state depending on the wattage, many people will begin arguing that Blackstar are not true tube amps though. which in all actuality they are hybrid amps. Just a little FYI, for your first tube amp play around with the variety of amps out there.
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#3
Quote by bobafettacheese
Tubes are much louder than solid state depending on the wattage, many people will begin arguing that Blackstar are not true tube amps though. which in all actuality they are hybrid amps. Just a little FYI, for your first tube amp play around with the variety of amps out there.


They're not even proper hyrbid amps though, in the conventional sense. They're tube amps with a bunch of random opamps thrown in all over the place.

They work for a lot of people, I've never personally heard the appeal in them. Just try them out in a store if you can, otherwise there's always youtube.

What would be even better, is if you did this:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1387138

With that info, we could point you in the direction of any amps that will do what you want.

EDIT: Also worth noting that I, and a lot of people here, will never buy one simply based on the fact that they're straight up liars, and that makes me think very badly of their company. Also, they were responsible for the JCM900. So... not too many good things going on over there.
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Last edited by Offworld92 at Mar 12, 2012,
#4
I'm happy with my HT-40. I get a really good distortion and clean channel is pretty cool too.

Try it out.
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#5
I have about 700 to play around with. The music i play is grunge/metal and throw in a little bit of clean. Some bands AIC, Soundgarden, Godsmack, oasis, trivium.

Edit oh it would be used for home and small venues.
Last edited by VoxSG at Mar 12, 2012,
#6
Tube amps are not louder than SS amps at the same wattage. The human ear only perceives it as louder because of the differences in the harmonic structure between the two technologies.

That being said, you'll need a higher wattage solid state amp to compete with a tube amps head-room.
#7
I have a HT-20 and I like it a lot. Although 667 is completely right, in effect a tube amp is louder because people perceive it as louder.
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#8
I liked the Blackstar amps when I played them, but I always just felt like there was something missing with them, never truly satisfied. Looks like you are going for a wide range of styles, it is hard to find an amp that does them all really well. Even though you have 700 to spend play around with some different amps. What are you using them for (i.e. gigging, home use)?
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#9
Quote by 667
Tube amps are not louder than SS amps at the same wattage. The human ear only perceives it as louder because of the differences in the harmonic structure between the two technologies.

Not true at all. The power rating on an amp is the theoretical power it will deliver before clipping. You can run a tube amp a long way past that and it still sounds good. A 50W tube amp is usually capable of pushing close to 70 or 80W if you drive it into clipping.
With SS amps you run the power amp below clipping because they sound dreadful beyond that and they are designed to run below clipping intentionally (usually). So the rated power is the power they actually deliver. It's not just the way your ears perceive it, there is actually more power going to the speakers with a tube amp.


As to the TS. If you like fizz, buy one, otherwise:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1387138
And let us recommend a better amp to suit your needs.

PS: This forum is littered with Blackstar fanbois so expect a lot of "best thing since sliced bread" crap from them. Personally, they annoy me intensely.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 12, 2012,
#10
Quote by bobafettacheese
I liked the Blackstar amps when I played them, but I always just felt like there was something missing with them, never truly satisfied. Looks like you are going for a wide range of styles, it is hard to find an amp that does them all really well. Even though you have 700 to spend play around with some different amps. What are you using them for (i.e. gigging, home use)?

Edit oh it would be used for home and small venues
#11
Then go for a smaller tube amp 30-50W range and you can use it at home and mic it for venues if needed. 50W at home still might be really loud, you might need a forgiving family or forgiving neighbors. Enjoy searching, play as many as you can.
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#12
Quote by Cathbard
Not true at all. The power rating on an amp is the theoretical power it will deliver before clipping. You can run a tube amp a long way past that and it still sounds good. A 50W tube amp is usually capable of pushing close to 70 or 80W if you drive it into clipping.
With SS amps you run the power amp below clipping because they sound dreadful beyond that and they are designed to run below clipping intentionally (usually). So the rated power is the power they actually deliver. It's not just the way your ears perceive it, there is actually more power going to the speakers with a tube amp.


As to the TS. If you like fizz, buy one, otherwise:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1387138
And let us recommend a better amp to suit your needs.

PS: This forum is littered with Blackstar fanbois so expect a lot of "best thing since sliced bread" crap from them. Personally, they annoy me intensely.

Well i just got a Vox HT 40 and im not really impressed with it but i thought blackstar would be a good brand.
#13
Good brand? If you consider a company run by a pack of liars that also almost totally destroyed Marshall's reputation with shitty, dishonest designs then yeah, they are a good brand.
I wouldn't touch them on principal. Their top end amps seem pretty good but I'd rather eat worms than patronise them as a company. As for their HT series, wouldn't use one on a bet.
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#14
I am not familiar with the VOX HT40, unless you combined the blackstar with the AC15? Just curious. What amp do you currently have?
Gibson LP traditional and DC standard, PRS S2 Custom 24, Schecter Banshee 7
EVH 5153, Mesa DR Tremoverb combo 2-2x12's
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#15
Quote by bobafettacheese
I am not familiar with the VOX HT40, unless you combined the blackstar with the AC15? Just curious. What amp do you currently have?

Its a Vox HT 40 tube 40 watts but idk something just doesn't seem right about it.
#16
oh ok, if it is truly a 40 watt tube amp then I think you should be able to dial in a tone that you are looking for. Vox isn't known for there heavy distortion, but they do have some sweet sounds that can be made. Have you thought about a pedal or two to put out in front to see if you get the sound you want. Sometimes you have to take some time to dial in the tone you want. I will have to do some research on the HT 40, I haven't heard of them, now I feel like a noob. If it is a VT 40, then I would say get rid of it. the valvetronix series was crap, in my opinion. it is a hybrid, not like the blackstar hybrids, at least VOX admits to being a hybrid.
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EVH 5153, Mesa DR Tremoverb combo 2-2x12's
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#17
Quote by VoxSG
Its a Vox HT 40 tube 40 watts but idk something just doesn't seem right about it.

Sure you don't mean Blackstar HT40 instead of Vox HT40?

Or maybe you mean the Vox VT40+? That's geared more towards beginners. For the price they're fine, but they don't compare to higher-end offerings. It's also solid state for the biggest part - doesn't have a tube power amp, like even the Blackstars do.


And, oh well. The Blackstars I've tried weren't necessarily bad amps, but I got bored with the sound after ten minutes or so. I wouldn't refuse to use one... but I'd rather use something else; cheaper stuff, too.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Mar 12, 2012,
#19
Well, with something not being right about it: It's just a relatively cheap amp for beginners. Fine for what it is, but not spectacular in any way. If you don't like it, return it.
#20
Quote by Cathbard
Not true at all. The power rating on an amp is the theoretical power it will deliver before clipping. You can run a tube amp a long way past that and it still sounds good. A 50W tube amp is usually capable of pushing close to 70 or 80W if you drive it into clipping.
With SS amps you run the power amp below clipping because they sound dreadful beyond that and they are designed to run below clipping intentionally (usually). So the rated power is the power they actually deliver. It's not just the way your ears perceive it, there is actually more power going to the speakers with a tube amp.


Sorry but every article I've read on the subject states otherwise.
#21
Quote by 667
Sorry but every article I've read on the subject states otherwise.


hi every article you've read is wrong.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#22
Quote by 667
Sorry but every article I've read on the subject states otherwise.


Then you haven't read very many.

And the ones you have allegedly read...are wrong.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#23
Quote by 667
Sorry but every article I've read on the subject states otherwise.

Well, then you've either misunderstood them or they weren't terribly good articles. Or not about guitar amps.
#24
Quote by Cathbard
Not true at all. The power rating on an amp is the theoretical power it will deliver before clipping. You can run a tube amp a long way past that and it still sounds good. A 50W tube amp is usually capable of pushing close to 70 or 80W if you drive it into clipping.
With SS amps you run the power amp below clipping because they sound dreadful beyond that and they are designed to run below clipping intentionally (usually). So the rated power is the power they actually deliver. It's not just the way your ears perceive it, there is actually more power going to the speakers with a tube amp.

Yes, but that means the rating is flawed, not the perception of volume. If there were an accurate way of judging SS to tube in an apples to apples fashion (which you have proven is impossible) then I think he would be correct; the harmonic content of the tube amp would 'seem' louder.

I think (but could be completely mistaken) that this is the classic example of him discussing the hypothetical and you discussing the real world... Never the twain shall meet.
Quote by Cathbard
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#25
Quote by TheQuailman
Well, then you've either misunderstood them or they weren't terribly good articles. Or not about guitar amps.



This one seems pretty legit.

http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm.

"Are Tube Amps louder than solid state amps of the same power?
No. However they do SOUND louder. Let me explain.
Some excellent scientific work on tube preamplifiers and their distortion products has turned up the mechanism for this. When tubes are driven outside their linear region, for the first 12db or so of overdrive the harmonics that they produce trick the human ear into thinking that the sounds are getting louder, when in fact the sound is getting progressively more distorted.

It is this acoustic trick that can make tube amps sound up to 12db louder than they actually are compared to a perfect, undistorted amplifier. A solid state amplifier of the same power as a tube amp may distort at the same signal level as the tube amp, but the distortions are not subtle, and we hear them as distortion, not as a slightly louder sound. A solid state amplifier of much greater power would remain undistorted at higher levels, and the tube amp would sound comparably loud to the larger solid state amp.

They sound larger than they are. "


I'd like to see articles that state otherwise. Until then, I don't buy it.
#26
Quote by 667
This one seems pretty legit.

http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm.

"Are Tube Amps louder than solid state amps of the same power?
No. However they do SOUND louder. Let me explain.
Some excellent scientific work on tube preamplifiers and their distortion products has turned up the mechanism for this. When tubes are driven outside their linear region, for the first 12db or so of overdrive the harmonics that they produce trick the human ear into thinking that the sounds are getting louder, when in fact the sound is getting progressively more distorted.

It is this acoustic trick that can make tube amps sound up to 12db louder than they actually are compared to a perfect, undistorted amplifier. A solid state amplifier of the same power as a tube amp may distort at the same signal level as the tube amp, but the distortions are not subtle, and we hear them as distortion, not as a slightly louder sound. A solid state amplifier of much greater power would remain undistorted at higher levels, and the tube amp would sound comparably loud to the larger solid state amp.

They sound larger than they are. "


I'd like to see articles that state otherwise. Until then, I don't buy it.


That's more than a bit amusing, because it's not saying what you seem to think it is. Further, the author is confused because what's he's basically saying is that you can overdrive tube amps and they don't sound like shit. (Driven outside their linear region)

Which is driving them BEYOND their 'rated' power output, since rated power is prior to distortion, NOT maximum power output, while SS amps are rated at limit.

Which means that they sound louder BECAUSE THEY ARE LOUDER.

FFS...

50 watts is 50 watts, tube or solid state, but a 50 watt SS amp will only push 50 watts whilst a 50 watt tube amp may push 80 in distortion.

That's why tube amps that appear to be rated the same ARE louder, and if the assclown that wrote that article actually knew anything he'd know that.

And now you know.

Hope that helps.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#27
Quote by VoxSG
I have about 700 to play around with. The music i play is grunge/metal and throw in a little bit of clean. Some bands AIC, Soundgarden, Godsmack, oasis, trivium.

Edit oh it would be used for home and small venues.



I'm going to try and get back on topic here and suggest to the OP that he check out Jet City Amps. I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet.

I got to sit down and really try out one the other day (a used JCA50H on a used marshall 1960 4x12 cab specifically) over at guitar center. And for the OP's price range and sounds he is looking for I think a Jet City would work out real well
#28
Quote by 667
This one seems pretty legit.

http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm.

"Are Tube Amps louder than solid state amps of the same power?
No. However they do SOUND louder. Let me explain.
Some excellent scientific work on tube preamplifiers and their distortion products has turned up the mechanism for this. When tubes are driven outside their linear region, for the first 12db or so of overdrive the harmonics that they produce trick the human ear into thinking that the sounds are getting louder, when in fact the sound is getting progressively more distorted.

It is this acoustic trick that can make tube amps sound up to 12db louder than they actually are compared to a perfect, undistorted amplifier. A solid state amplifier of the same power as a tube amp may distort at the same signal level as the tube amp, but the distortions are not subtle, and we hear them as distortion, not as a slightly louder sound. A solid state amplifier of much greater power would remain undistorted at higher levels, and the tube amp would sound comparably loud to the larger solid state amp.

They sound larger than they are. "


I'd like to see articles that state otherwise. Until then, I don't buy it.


Geofex says that the amp sounds louder to your ear.

not that it actually is louder.

do you understand how science works?
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#29
Quote by Cathbard
PS: This forum is littered with Blackstar fanbois so expect a lot of "best thing since sliced bread" crap from them. Personally, they annoy me intensely.

says the guy that uses an EMG 85 for ted nuggent.

now that's annoying.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#30
Quote by AcousticMirror
Geofex says that the amp sounds louder to your ear.

not that it actually is louder.

do you understand how science works?


Exactly. It sounds louder, but it's not.

Was the science question to me? If so, science in general? Im not sure why the question - and it's a bit general, but....

I work with medical devices - mostly neuro stuff - Image Guided Surgery, Deep Brain Stimulation and Radiation Surgery/Therapy. I'm an expert at that stuff because it's my job. I've supported brain cases all over the world where I've done everything in the O.R. except for drilling a burr hole into the brain (I have been asked to do). Im just a fan of everything else - and I consider myself above average when it comes to general science knowledge.
#31
Oh man, we could use your burr drilling skills around here.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#32
you gotta compare them at the exact same power levels.

or something. what the what.

everyone's wrong. goodbye.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#33
Quote by tubetime86
Oh man, we could use your burr drilling skills around here.



:P

Sorry about the jack TS.
#34
Quote by 667
Sorry but every article I've read on the subject states otherwise.



go back to high school physics and then come back here and discuss it
#35
Quote by RedBear120
I'm going to try and get back on topic here and suggest to the OP that he check out Jet City Amps. I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet.

I got to sit down and really try out one the other day (a used JCA50H on a used marshall 1960 4x12 cab specifically) over at guitar center. And for the OP's price range and sounds he is looking for I think a Jet City would work out real well



the jca22 would be a nice idea for a lower wattage, high gain amp.
#36
Quote by andrerist
go back to high school physics and then come back here and discuss it


Go back to grade school and learn how to properly compose sentences.
#37
Quote by gregs1020
says the guy that uses an EMG 85 for ted nuggent.

now that's annoying.




Quote by tubetime86
Yes, but that means the rating is flawed, not the perception of volume. If there were an accurate way of judging SS to tube in an apples to apples fashion (which you have proven is impossible) then I think he would be correct; the harmonic content of the tube amp would 'seem' louder.

I think (but could be completely mistaken) that this is the classic example of him discussing the hypothetical and you discussing the real world... Never the twain shall meet.

Show me an amplifier rating that wasn't flawed when put to the test.
I've repaired "500W RMS" car stereo amplifiers that had transistors and voltage rails that could not have possibly been producing for than about 50W. My Peureaux PA amp produces substantially more than it's "rating" which has caused more than a few speakers to explode.
The actual wattage rating on amplifiers is usually a complete fantasy. Some under quote it and some (most) over quote it. Quite often they are so far out that they don't even give you a rough idea about what you are getting. It's quite scandalous really.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 12, 2012,
#38
Quote by Cathbard

what i'm serious?

you're like, hello abby with these i will suck the life out of you.

may as well use a blackstar.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#39
Quote by gregs1020
what i'm serious?

you're like, hello abby with these i will suck the life out of you.

may as well use a blackstar.


what? my 81's with the 18 volt mod are just transparent, so i can hear the bass wood body's tonal properties.

really makes my blackstar sing, lets those fragile harmonics really shine. especially on super crunch mode.

btw, hate to thread jack, but what is the best speaker to run with my blackstar?
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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Last edited by gumbilicious at Mar 12, 2012,
#40
Quote by gregs1020
what i'm serious?

you're like, hello abby with these i will suck the life out of you.

may as well use a blackstar.

I'll do another with some passives for you later. I just thought it would give a good fixed reference. Plus I just wanted to play that guitar. I hadn't played it for a while and it was just sitting there in front of the amp. It was too tempting. That thing is just lovely to play.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
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