#2
Depends on what pots are in your guitar. You can get CTS 500k pots for cheap. If your current guitar doesn't already have them, just get those and swap them out while you are doing the wiring.

This wiring should work

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WD2HH3T11_00/Guitar-Wiring-Diagram-2-Humbuckers3-Way-Toggle-Switch1-Volume0Tone000.html

or this
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_1t_3w
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
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Last edited by stonyman65 at Mar 12, 2012,
#3
Quote by stonyman65
Depends on what pots are in your guitar. You can get CTS 500k pots for cheap. If your current guitar doesn't already have them, just get those and swap them out while you are doing the wiring.

This wiring should work

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WD2HH3T11_00/Guitar-Wiring-Diagram-2-Humbuckers3-Way-Toggle-Switch1-Volume0Tone000.html

or this
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_1t_3w

Thanks So Much!!
#5
Quote by Iplayaguitar15
Also are their certain pots for tone and volume?


Not quite sure what you are asking. Do you mean the switch?

Basically in this type of setup there is one master volume that controls all pickups and one master tone that controls all pickups. The pickups are then wired to the switch, the input is wired to the master volume control.
Quote by strat0blaster
This is terrible advice. Even worse than the useless dry, sarcastic comment I made.

Quote by Cathbard
I'm too old for the Jim Morrison look now. When I was gigging I had a fine arse.
#6
Firstly, I would advise against the Invader/Distortion combination. The Invader can sound okay with certain amps and styles but more often than not it's just a huge muddy mess; there are many other Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio pickups that can give you a powerful, thick sound without the muddiness of the Invader. Similarly the Distortion is not a terribly good pickup either, and in general it's not a great idea to put a powerful ceramic pickup at the neck position, which inherently has trouble sounding clear to begin with. What's your amp and what sort of tone are you after? We can probably work out a more appropriate, better set of pickups for you.

As for the wiring, you shouldn't need to change the pots in your guitar unless your guitar came with active pickups. Moving from active to passive (or passive to active) is the only time you need to change pots. You may want to change pots anyway if you don't like the feel or sound of the current ones, but if they're working fine then there's not much point in changing them.

There is no standard value for pots in any guitar or for any pickup combination. Most people use 500k pots for humbuckers and 250k pots for single coils, but there is no particular reason for doing so. Quite simply, Fender (mostly single coils) used 250k pots because that was what they had the most of and Gibson (mostly humbuckers) mostly used 300k and 500k pots originally, because that is what they had the most of too. As a result people have taken it as a kind of rule that humbuckers must have 500k pots and single coils must use 250k pots, but really it all just started because of which value each brand had the most of.
Lower resistance gives a warmer, more mellow tone. With high output humbuckers, less than 500k can result in a slightly muddy tone. Higher resistance gives a brighter and clearer tone. Lower resistance also gives you more range and control over your sound as you turn the pot up or down, while higher reistance pots tend to not be as accurate and are more all-or-nothing. Remember you can mix pot values; the standard Gibson set up is a 300k volume control and a 500k tone control, and Fender make guitars where some pickups are wired to some controls but not others. When all of a guitars controls at set at full, the volume control's value seems to effect the tone more than the tone control's value. Usually the capacitor on the tone control is more important than the value of the tone control itself.

There's also several different pot tapers, though by far the most common are linear and audio taper (also called logarithmic). Linear means that when the pot is at 10 you will get 100% of your signal, at 8 you will have 80%, 5 will give you 50%, 2 will give you 20%, etc. The thing is, human hearing doesn't work in such a basic way. To better match our hearing, audio taper pots can be used. These give 100% of your signal at 10 and 0% at 0, but between 8 and 3 they'll be very uneven.
The result is that linear pots are technically accurate, but they don't sound right. Audio taper sound right, but they're not technically right. Which you use for volume or tone is up to you. Gibson currently use linear pots for volume and audio taper for tone; many other companies (in fact I think most companies) have it the other way around, and some companies use nothing but linear or nothing but audio taper.
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#8
Quote by MrFlibble
Firstly, I would advise against the Invader/Distortion combination. The Invader can sound okay with certain amps and styles but more often than not it's just a huge muddy mess; there are many other Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio pickups that can give you a powerful, thick sound without the muddiness of the Invader. Similarly the Distortion is not a terribly good pickup either, and in general it's not a great idea to put a powerful ceramic pickup at the neck position, which inherently has trouble sounding clear to begin with. What's your amp and what sort of tone are you after? We can probably work out a more appropriate, better set of pickups for you.

As for the wiring, you shouldn't need to change the pots in your guitar unless your guitar came with active pickups. Moving from active to passive (or passive to active) is the only time you need to change pots. You may want to change pots anyway if you don't like the feel or sound of the current ones, but if they're working fine then there's not much point in changing them.

There is no standard value for pots in any guitar or for any pickup combination. Most people use 500k pots for humbuckers and 250k pots for single coils, but there is no particular reason for doing so. Quite simply, Fender (mostly single coils) used 250k pots because that was what they had the most of and Gibson (mostly humbuckers) mostly used 300k and 500k pots originally, because that is what they had the most of too. As a result people have taken it as a kind of rule that humbuckers must have 500k pots and single coils must use 250k pots, but really it all just started because of which value each brand had the most of.
Lower resistance gives a warmer, more mellow tone. With high output humbuckers, less than 500k can result in a slightly muddy tone. Higher resistance gives a brighter and clearer tone. Lower resistance also gives you more range and control over your sound as you turn the pot up or down, while higher reistance pots tend to not be as accurate and are more all-or-nothing. Remember you can mix pot values; the standard Gibson set up is a 300k volume control and a 500k tone control, and Fender make guitars where some pickups are wired to some controls but not others. When all of a guitars controls at set at full, the volume control's value seems to effect the tone more than the tone control's value. Usually the capacitor on the tone control is more important than the value of the tone control itself.

There's also several different pot tapers, though by far the most common are linear and audio taper (also called logarithmic). Linear means that when the pot is at 10 you will get 100% of your signal, at 8 you will have 80%, 5 will give you 50%, 2 will give you 20%, etc. The thing is, human hearing doesn't work in such a basic way. To better match our hearing, audio taper pots can be used. These give 100% of your signal at 10 and 0% at 0, but between 8 and 3 they'll be very uneven.
The result is that linear pots are technically accurate, but they don't sound right. Audio taper sound right, but they're not technically right. Which you use for volume or tone is up to you. Gibson currently use linear pots for volume and audio taper for tone; many other companies (in fact I think most companies) have it the other way around, and some companies use nothing but linear or nothing but audio taper.

Thanks for all that info the type of sound im trying to get is something like these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqI-6xag8Mg&feature=artistob&playnext=1&list=TLZItbLXYddzQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPk_Jk0AJg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un82tyFzG7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyzbQ0Gdg3w

What pickups would you suggest for that style?
#9
what's your amp?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
what's your amp?

Dont hate but i got a 75 watt line6 spider II i got for 75$lol. would and emg 81x and 85x combo sound good?
#11
Be ready to be told to buy a new amp first. It may not be what you want to hear, but there's no point in putting $200 pickups into a guitar that will be played through amp that won't even appreciate the difference. Put the $200 toward an amp that will play nicely with and justify new pickups. My two cents.
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#12
Through a Spider II? Running active pickups into that won't do you any good. Active pickups exaggerate everything, so your Spider will just end up sounding even more digital, flat and sterile. For some styles of music this can work, but it certainly won't match the examples you gave.

Look up some early Evanescence for an example of what EMG 81 and 85 pickups into a Line 6 sound like. The 81X and 85X do not sound terribly different.

I'd suggest you either get a new amp, run the Spider totally clean and invest in a high-quality all-valve distortion pedal (which would be more expensive and sound worse than just getting a new amp), or if you're hell-bent on changing pickups then have a look at the DiMarzio D Activators (a passive pickup with some of the flatter response of active pickups), or the Seymour Duncan Alternative 8. They'd be appropriate for the sort of tones you mentioned but wouldn't require a total overhaul of your guitar's electronics and wouldn't be totally wasted on the Spider.
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#13
Quote by Iplayaguitar15
Dont hate but i got a 75 watt line6 spider II i got for 75$lol. would and emg 81x and 85x combo sound good?


sure, if you get this as well



i mean the problem is the amp. i'm not hating, just telling you it straight so you don't waste your money.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Quote by MrFlibble
Through a Spider II? Running active pickups into that won't do you any good. Active pickups exaggerate everything, so your Spider will just end up sounding even more digital, flat and sterile. For some styles of music this can work, but it certainly won't match the examples you gave.

Look up some early Evanescence for an example of what EMG 81 and 85 pickups into a Line 6 sound like. The 81X and 85X do not sound terribly different.

I'd suggest you either get a new amp, run the Spider totally clean and invest in a high-quality all-valve distortion pedal (which would be more expensive and sound worse than just getting a new amp), or if you're hell-bent on changing pickups then have a look at the DiMarzio D Activators (a passive pickup with some of the flatter response of active pickups), or the Seymour Duncan Alternative 8. They'd be appropriate for the sort of tones you mentioned but wouldn't require a total overhaul of your guitar's electronics and wouldn't be totally wasted on the Spider.

I highly doubt my mom will let me get another amp cause she just got me the line6 but if i can convince her should i get the peavey valveking 112 combo or the peavey vyper 75w?
#18
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found the Vypyr tube series (emphasis on the TUBE part) to be responsive to different pickups (I don't think this is my imagination). I'd look in that direction on a budget, TS. Super versatile amp that does a lot of things well. You could get a used Vypyr Tube 60 for a decent price, probably. I got mine (plus the Sanpera II) for $350. I know that might seem steep, but sell your Spider to add to your funds. Also, if you buy one without an accessories (namely the $220 control board), you could probably make out pretty well price-wise.

TS, where are you located?
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Last edited by bAngiel01 at Mar 13, 2012,
#19
Quote by bAngiel01
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found the Vypyr tube series (emphasis on the TUBE part) to be responsive to different pickups (I don't think this is my imagination). I'd look in that direction on a budget, TS. Super versatile amp that does a lot of things well. You could get a used Vypyr Tube 60 for a decent price, probably. I got mine (plus the Sanpera II) for $350. I know that might seem steep, but sell your Spider to add to your funds. Also, if you buy one without an accessories (namely the $220 control board), you could probably make out pretty well price-wise.

TS, where are you located?

I cant sell my spider my mom will be PISSED i can get like 250-300 soon so i might get either the valvking or vyper valve
#20
With $300 you can get a used Vypyr Tube. That is my personal recommendation. Although, I've never played a VK, so someone may very well come through here and point you in that direction. My opinion is very limited, so you'll probably want to hear someone with more experience with both amps to chime in.

I respect your mom's opinion about selling the Spider, though. If you're ABSOLUTELY stuck with the Spider, my final piece of advice would be this: hold off on a new amp until you can get something REALLY worth your while. The Vypyr is a great amp, and I'm sure the VK is too, but they're a mid-range modeler and a mid-range tube amp (receptively). If you wait for a big upgrade (say 6505, if you like Peaveys), you'll be happier. And that Peavey will really like the EMGs, as Dave said.
PRS SE CU22 | PRS SE CU24 | Takamine EG463SC
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#21
Quote by bAngiel01
With $300 you can get a used Vypyr Tube. That is my personal recommendation. Although, I've never played a VK, so someone may very well come through here and point you in that direction. My opinion is very limited, so you'll probably want to hear someone with more experience with both amps to chime in.

I respect your mom's opinion about selling the Spider, though. If you're ABSOLUTELY stuck with the Spider, my final piece of advice would be this: hold off on a new amp until you can get something REALLY worth your while. The Vypyr is a great amp, and I'm sure the VK is too, but they're a mid-range modeler and a mid-range tube amp (receptively). If you wait for a big upgrade (say 6505, if you like Peaveys), you'll be happier. And that Peavey will really like the EMGs, as Dave said.

It will take my forever to get a good amp cause im 14 and its hard to make money i have to put half of all my money into savings for a car and i dont get alot as it is. And i can get a valveking for 200$ plus shipping is that good?
#22
I'll leave that question to a VK expert. I honestly have no idea. Sorry. But I'd still encourage you to wait. I started playing at 13, and I had this terrible Fender G-DEC amp for two years, then a VOX AD30VT-XL for another two years. I wasn't able to get a decent amp until a year ago. Sometimes patience is key. $200+ on that VK could be $200+ toward a 6505 112 combo or the like. I'll stop playing mentor, but that, I believe, is the best advice I can offer.
PRS SE CU22 | PRS SE CU24 | Takamine EG463SC
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#24
Quote by bAngiel01
I'll leave that question to a VK expert. I honestly have no idea. Sorry. But I'd still encourage you to wait. I started playing at 13, and I had this terrible Fender G-DEC amp for two years, then a VOX AD30VT-XL for another two years. I wasn't able to get a decent amp until a year ago. Sometimes patience is key. $200+ on that VK could be $200+ toward a 6505 112 combo or the like. I'll stop playing mentor, but that, I believe, is the best advice I can offer.

Thanks for the advice i appreciate it. i think ill save my money for the 6505 combo cause i can get it for 400 so i could get that money pretty soon or close to that
#25
Quote by Iplayaguitar15

Trembucker/JB/Invader in the bridge. Jazz/'59 in the neck. For amp, if you want a modeling amp a peavey vypyr 75 or SS, if you want a tube amp most Peavey, Traynor, Blackheart (I think they have an "ant" combo if you want to play quietly, but it's like 1 watt I think)

Edit: Cheapest (I've seen), Decent (IMO) sounding Tube amp half stack: Jet City JCA20h Head + Jet City JCA12s Cab <- click it
Last edited by dragonkidkoga at Mar 14, 2012,
#26
I think dragonkidkoga may have a good idea. The 6505 is a great amp, but it is notorious for sounding like garbage at low levels. A Jet City combo/mini-stack might be better unless you plan on gigging. The JCAs are pretty versatile and with an OD in front, they can get surprisingly distorted.

TS, where are you located? What does your local CL look like? Every now and again a JCA stack pops up on mine for <$250.

If you answer these questions for us, we can guide you better in your future amp-making decisions.
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#27
Im on Long Island NY and right now i really cant get an amp so im thinking for now i can buy pickups for my guitars and then just deal with w.e sound i get untill im able to buy a new amp
#28
Quote by dragonkidkoga
Trembucker/JB/Invader in the bridge. Jazz/'59 in the neck. For amp, if you want a modeling amp a peavey vypyr 75 or SS, if you want a tube amp most Peavey, Traynor, Blackheart (I think they have an "ant" combo if you want to play quietly, but it's like 1 watt I think)

Edit: Cheapest (I've seen), Decent (IMO) sounding Tube amp half stack: Jet City JCA20h Head + Jet City JCA12s Cab <- click it


Why Jazz or '59 in neck? i dont usualy use my neck pup so i was thinking of getting to bridge pickups
#29
Quote by Iplayaguitar15
Why Jazz or '59 in neck? i dont usualy use my neck pup so i was thinking of getting to bridge pickups



To balance the levels. One position will be much louder than the other with two bridge pups.

I'd recommend going for the VK. I've owned a Vypyr (non-tube) and played around on a tube one, and would go for VK over it unless you need tons of ridiculous effects.
#30
Quote by Wisthekiller
To balance the levels. One position will be much louder than the other with two bridge pups.

I'd recommend going for the VK. I've owned a Vypyr (non-tube) and played around on a tube one, and would go for VK over it unless you need tons of ridiculous effects.

So should i get a bridge sh-8 invader and a neck '59?

And im not getting an amp for a while
#31
Quote by Iplayaguitar15
So should i get a bridge sh-8 invader and a neck '59?

And im not getting an amp for a while


You shouldn't get the Invader at all. And with your Spider, changing pickups won't change the sound much, only make your guitar look slightly different and sound eq'd slightly different.

Go for a DiMarzio SD, X2N, or D-Activator for the bridge, and a Breed neck. That'll give you all chugga-chugga you want, plus the cleaner sounding high gain leads.
#32
Quote by Wisthekiller
You shouldn't get the Invader at all. And with your Spider, changing pickups won't change the sound much, only make your guitar look slightly different and sound eq'd slightly different.

Go for a DiMarzio SD, X2N, or D-Activator for the bridge, and a Breed neck. That'll give you all chugga-chugga you want, plus the cleaner sounding high gain leads.

Im likeing the Super distortion Bridge And Breed neck thats what im probably gunna but for My BC Rich the stock pickups sound really bad. And for my Jackson im gunna get emg 81x and 85x