#1
In Hotel California when it borrows the F#7 from B harmonic minor and the E from B melodic minor (I think, lol).. what is the "musical" term for borrowing a chord? Is it modal interchange?
#2
It more of thing of a cadential dominant chord. It goes F#7 -> Bm which is V-i
#3
Scale theory is kind of incompatible with chords. Besides, the E is present in any B minor scale, whether it's natural, melodic or harmonic. It's just a standard Dominant 7th chord. And it certainly isn't modal interchange

EDIT: Borrowed chords do exist, however, and they're called just that: borrowed chords. But that would be a description for whole chords, rather than just notes, and they're borrowed from keys rather than scales. It may seem pedantic, but thinking in terms of scales is extremely limiting, not really representative of the music, and just kind of a drag if you have to explain every chromaticism in terms of being borrowed from another scale.

You do get examples in music where Composers clearly are thinking in scales, but that will normally be very clear cut: unless you're getting C major scales over a C major chord followed by F major scales over an F major chord say, then scales will probably lead you down the wrong track.
Last edited by National_Anthem at Mar 13, 2012,
#4
^ what is this "scale theory" you speak of? The only theory i'm aware of is music theory and its pretty much all encompassing.
#5
Quote by z4twenny
^ what is this "scale theory" you speak of? The only theory i'm aware of is music theory and its pretty much all encompassing.

It's a "branch" (more or less... maybe "way of thought" is better?) of music theory. It's just another way to look at things.

For instance, I analyzed some Ravel and standard analyzation approaches didn't work, so I had to go chord by chord without really thinking about key. Same idea.
Last edited by DiminishedFifth at Mar 13, 2012,
#6
Chord scale theory I guess he means. It has no bearing at the issue at hand though.

The term "borrowed chords" equates to "modal interchange". I prefer the term "borrowed chords" though because "modal interchange" suggests that the process somehow involves modes, which it doesn't.
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#8
Quote by z4twenny
^ what is this "scale theory" you speak of? The only theory i'm aware of is music theory and its pretty much all encompassing.


I simply meant music theory relating to scales. If I'd meant some kind of universal and comprehensive theory of scales, then I probably would have given emphasis through capitalization or inverted commas or something. My point is, that thinking in terms of scales doesn't really help, seeing as most music does not work in that way, and the number of exceptions are far too large for it to be a convincing description of music.

For example, if some music freely swaps between harmonic and melodic minor, then it really has no bearing on the effect of the music seeing as it's all in A minor, and that's the overwhelming effect: not borrowing notes from this or that scale. And as a mechanism for describing further chromaticisms, it becomes even more hopelessly clumsy.

Quote by AlanHB
Chord scale theory I guess he means. It has no bearing at the issue at hand though.


Really? I didn't think what I was saying was tangential at all.

Quote by AlanHB

The term "borrowed chords" equates to "modal interchange". I prefer the term "borrowed chords" though because "modal interchange" suggests that the process somehow involves modes, which it doesn't.


Modal interchange would also suggest to me something less fleeting than simply one chord that's "borrowed".

I also prefer to say borrowed chords, although I think it's not without it's faults, but at least everyone knows what you mean when you use that
The problem with the "borrowing" terminology for me is it somehow implies that the chromatic chord doesn't relate to the key, and it's just somehow inserted. "Borrowed" chords often form part of functional harmonic progressions, and as a result, have a relation to the tonic, even if it's a chromatic one.
Last edited by National_Anthem at Mar 14, 2012,
#10
Quote by seljer
It more of thing of a cadential dominant chord. It goes F#7 -> Bm which is V-i

This guy has it, TS. Study progressions in minor keys. Analyze.