#1
I do not understand how someone is suppose to memorize an entire scale on the entire neck of the guitar and remember it. What is even more mind boggling to me is how to actually know what notes to play over the chord changes while trying to remember all the patterns. And what is even more mind boggling on top of that is how you are suppose to change scales over different chords and know what notes to play at the right moment. and what is even more mind boggling than that is how to still remember how to phrase nicely.

How the hell are you suppose to do all of this? And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems? Do they know some trick that they are not sharing.
Last edited by iidunno at Mar 14, 2012,
#2
if you wanted an easy instrument you should have probably went for the triangle
#3
Scales can actually be rather easy to memorize, and can be done all across the neck within a few days or a week- depending on the player. Once you have that done, everything else falls into place much easier.

A DVD that was invaluable for my own development in this area is Rusty Cooley's "Fretboard Autopsy" from Rock House Method- I highly recommend it. Here's a sample video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxxpt92bkBs
#5
Don't think of it that way. Do you know the notes of the fretboard? Can you figure out which notes are in a scale? Then you've got it! If not: start trying to learn to do those things. It will be far more useful than trying to memorize 11 different patterns (each key) for each scale.
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#6
it's called study and application. do you have to think about the words you say when you're speaking? generally, no. you want to express a concept and you express it. same concept. we've studied music and we've trained our ears, so we know what to do and when (and how) to do it.

so:

1) study/train.
2) practice.
3) apply.

to help you in doing so:

1) train your ear.
2) study theory (i recommend taking a class on it, but there are some good free resources, like http://www.musictheory.net). ignore the **** out of modes. seriously.
3) listen to a lot of music. i mean a lot of music. and be sure your tastes are diversified. there's a lot you can learn from listening and analyzing a bach harpsichord concerto, a coltrane bebop tune, and many others. (good) rap music can teach you a thing or two about rhythm. pop music can teach you a thing or two about writing an effective melody. and many more.

becoming a truly good musician is a long and difficult process that, i'll be honest, not everybody who picks up a guitar (or any instrument, for that matter) is up to. if it means something to you, then go for it - it's satisfying. if you work toward your goal, you can achieve it.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Last edited by AeolianWolf at Mar 14, 2012,
#7
dude once you learn the notes of the fret board you will find the rest of that stuff much easier.
as metioned above musictheory.net is an awesome resource, and it will help you learn the notes on the fretboard as well because it has a fretboard trainer. after you've learned that then start learning the different scales because patterns won't matter as much you'll just see where the notes are...
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Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
#8
Quote by iidunno
I do not understand how someone is suppose to memorize an entire scale on the entire neck of the guitar and remember it. What is even more mind boggling to me is how to actually know what notes to play over the chord changes while trying to remember all the patterns. And what is even more mind boggling on top of that is how you are suppose to change scales over different chords and know what notes to play at the right moment. and what is even more mind boggling than that is how to still remember how to phrase nicely.

How the hell are you suppose to do all of this? And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems? Do they know some trick that they are not sharing.



There's actually only one scale shape(for the most part), it just repeats all over the neck. There's only 12 notes, again they just repeat. Learn your octaves and scales become easy mode. Same with chords, all the open shapes repeat throughout the neck.

Once you learn your octaves and get your scales down, you start to notice the chord shapes within the scale which makes soloing around a chord easy.

THis would be good to get started with

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL58DA70A2123C71CD&feature=plcp
Last edited by jimicrackcorn at Mar 15, 2012,
#9
Patience, practice, and persistence. You also NEED to play with other musicians, no other single factor has helped me progress as much as playing with a band. If nothing else, sing melodies and try to mimic them on guitar. This will help with ear training, phrasing, and finding your notes on the neck.


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#10
You can't do it. It's impossible. Those guys were BORN knowing that stuff...


More seriously, you learn guitar just like you learn anything else, one step at a time.

But from the tone of your post it sounds like you are actually asking how to do it FAST, not simply how to do it?

Practice.....more....

Saw a kid last night with a shirt that said "It's simple, I practiced more than you!"

Think about it.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#11
Practice and study. If your mind is boggled then you arent focused enough on the task at hand. You dont have time to be perplexed - you got practising to get on with!
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#12
Quote by iidunno
I do not understand how someone is suppose to memorize an entire scale on the entire neck of the guitar and remember it. What is even more mind boggling to me is how to actually know what notes to play over the chord changes while trying to remember all the patterns. And what is even more mind boggling on top of that is how you are suppose to change scales over different chords and know what notes to play at the right moment. and what is even more mind boggling than that is how to still remember how to phrase nicely.

How the hell are you suppose to do all of this? And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems? Do they know some trick that they are not sharing.

play your guitar and don't worry about stupid shit. Un-boggle.
shred is gaudy music
#13
Quote by iidunno
How the hell are you suppose to do all of this? And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems? Do they know some trick that they are not sharing.


Stop thinking about patterns, and learn about notes. Once you have a grasp on it it's pretty straightforward.

As for Vai, Malmsteen and Satriani knowing this in a short period of time, we all start from the same place, knowing nothing. However;

Vai

Began playing when he was 13. Wiki says that he began lessons with Satriani when he was 14, which means that he had a very wealthy family or was very lucky. He proceeds to continue playing through high school, I recall reading somewhere that he'd practice on the toilet and sleep with his guitar sometimes. He then goes to Berklee. At the age of 19 he transcribes one of Zappas songs, becomes Zappa's official transcriber. He does some overdubs before becoming part of his band at the age of 20.

Malmsteen

Sees Jimi Hendrix at the age of 7. Starts playing around then. Writes his first song when he is 10. When he is 18 or 19 somehow a demo of his playing gets to record companies, and he begins his career from there. Note that he's actually in a position at the age of 18 or 19 for his playing to actually be heard by record execs, 12 years after he starts playing.

Satriani

Begins playing at the age of 14. At age of 18 he begins lessons with notable jazz guitarists, at teaches guitar around the place. At 22 he moves to Berklee and continues teaching. He plays around with a local, well connected group. He proceeds to go into massive credit card debt, but scores a higher paying slot with the Greg Kihn band to pay it off. Realistically it's not until Steve Vai raves about Satriani in magazines that everyone sits up and pays attention. Satriani releases Surfing with the Alien at the age of 31 to great success and it's all smooth sailing from there.


The reason I've addressed these is because they didn't just appear out of nowhere then proceeded to rock your face, it's because they've worked on their arts for nearly 10 years before you hear/see them. It's all about practice and application, there's no secret. If you put in the hard work, you get the skill set. Of course the "success" part, that's all luck.
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#14
^ Yep. Steve Vai used to practice about 10 hours a day, and Malmsteen spent his teenage years transcribing and practising Paganinni concertos and etudes. Dont be fooled into thinking it is quick or easy - these guys make it look effortless when on stage, but to get to that point they spend years in a lonely bedroom becoming very familiar with a guitar, a music stand and a metronome.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#15
Quote by iidunno
I do not understand how someone is suppose to memorize an entire scale on the entire neck of the guitar and remember it. What is even more mind boggling to me is how to actually know what notes to play over the chord changes while trying to remember all the patterns. And what is even more mind boggling on top of that is how you are suppose to change scales over different chords and know what notes to play at the right moment. and what is even more mind boggling than that is how to still remember how to phrase nicely.

How the hell are you suppose to do all of this? And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems? Do they know some trick that they are not sharing.


I can't answer for others, but every one of my students manage to do all these things and beyond. And yes, it's a secret that I'm not sharing, and neither are the students I teach, because they've earned it, they've put in the work. They will never give it away.

All it takes is motivation and the willingness to take it seriously, and the courage to take a step.

How can you get anything without putting work into it, or being motivated to cut the lip service and finally do something about it? I can't answer that for you, I just know that the ones that have these core characteristics aren't the ones on the outside looking in, wondering how to join the party.

I see several posts of this nature every month - 95% of them are hot air and never follow up and the other 5% use it as their turning point. I often wonder what makes one person motivated and ready to move forward, and the next someone that's all talk.

Anyways, best of luck to you.

Best,

Sean
#16
Quote by AlanHB

Began playing when he was 13. Wiki says that he began lessons with Satriani when he was 14, which means that he had a very wealthy family or was very lucky.



More like Satriani was poor and needed the money

On the "Satch tapes" it's mentioned that Vai lived in the same neighborhood, and that "all the kids" in the area got guitarlessons from "this guy" (Satriani).

Satriani was around his twenties and guitar lessons with him were probably cheaper then at your local music school.

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#17
And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems?


Is 8 years a short period of time?

The answer is basically "practice". There are dozens of simple rules and patterns that connect for you to understand scales and chords all over the fretboard, there's a lot of memorisation but nowhere near as much as you think.
#18
I have the same trouble i still struggle to get my head around it. My problem is i dont no where to start or where to go next. Ill start learning a few chords then i read."You should learn all the notes" then somone else says learn scales. I think what i need is a step by step guide that i can follow and not move on until ive completly understand that step.
#19
Three things, it doesn't matter how you go about them, just try to master them:
1-learn how every single note sounds (i mean relative pitch, but really relative pitch to a level in which you know what every note is just by hearing it)
2- learn theory, all of it, when you know all your theory you will be in a very good place
3- develop your technique to a level that you want. For me, there is no limit, but that just keeps me going for more and more.
#20
Quote by the_b1ues
I have the same trouble i still struggle to get my head around it. My problem is i dont no where to start or where to go next. Ill start learning a few chords then i read."You should learn all the notes" then somone else says learn scales. I think what i need is a step by step guide that i can follow and not move on until ive completly understand that step.


How is it that you need a step by step guide when there's been one in front of you the whole time?

Best,

Sean
#21
Quote by iidunno
I do not understand how someone is suppose to memorize an entire scale on the entire neck of the guitar and remember it. What is even more mind boggling to me is how to actually know what notes to play over the chord changes while trying to remember all the patterns. And what is even more mind boggling on top of that is how you are suppose to change scales over different chords and know what notes to play at the right moment. and what is even more mind boggling than that is how to still remember how to phrase nicely.

How the hell are you suppose to do all of this? And how do guitar players like steve vai, yngwie malmsteen, and joe satriani know all of this in such a short period of time it seems? Do they know some trick that they are not sharing.

I feel our frustration as I have been there myself.

What you need to do is learn the chords in the key of A minor (Am, Bdim, C, Dm, Em, F, G) and learn the 1st pattern of the A Minor Pentatonic scale. Then focus on applying that scale you memorized over the chord progression which may contain any of the above mentioned chords since it will always be in A minor.

Implementation is key here to solidify and memorize these things.