#1
I find I am lacking some understanding of borrowing chords from other keys...I find it often confuses me when a chord is pulled from a key other than the diatonic one.

For example, a song in B minor uses a C major during the verse. Then uses D major (the relative major) and C# minor during the chorus.

In the key of B minor though, C# should be diminished...I am wondering some of the theory behind using a C major and C# minor in its place.

Thankyou
#3
In the key of G major B minor is the third and C major is the fourth which is why that works.

As far as the C# minor being used that chord has got the notes C# E G#. The natural B Minor scale uses notes B C# D E F# G A B, but sometimes composers merge the natural minor scale with the Melodic minor scale which raises the sixth and seventh degrees of the natural minor scale (which would be the notes G# and A# respectively).
#4
e|------------------------------|
B|----------------7-7--5-5--3---|
G|----------------7-7--6-6--4---|(x3)
D|--22-454--4-0---7-7--6-6--4---|
A|--22-454--4-0---5-5--4-4--2---|
D|--22-454--4-0-----------------|

thats the chorus...sorry it got screwed up...its power chords and then D major, C# minor and
then B minor.


As for the verse, its B minor, then one power chord strums of (D, E, F#, G, F#, G, F# E) THEN C major chord followed by more one power chord strums of (D, F#, F#, D)
#5
Quote by RU Experienced?
In the key of G major B minor is the third and C major is the fourth which is why that works.

As far as the C# minor being used that chord has got the notes C# E G#. The natural B Minor scale uses notes B C# D E F# G A B, but sometimes composers merge the natural minor scale with the Melodic minor scale which raises the sixth and seventh degrees of the natural minor scale (which would be the notes G# and A# respectively).


Thankyou so much for that explanation.

Can you expand on the part where you said thats why it works. Like are you implying there was a key change? I am a little confused
#8
Alright. So the chorus:

Bm-Em-F#-F#-G-F#-G-F#-Em-D-C-F#-Bm...

So you're right...typical Bm. The C major is what we call a neopolitan. It's a pretty common chromatic harmony in a minor key. It's essentially a chromatic substitution for iv, with a pretty strong pull to i - but often operates like N-V-i (bII-V-i).

Everything else seems to be diatonic to the key.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 17, 2012,
#9
Quote by chronowarp
Alright. So the chorus:

Bm-Em-F#-F#-G-F#-G-F#-Em-D-C-F#-Bm...

So you're right...typical Bm. The C major is what we call a neopolitan. It's a pretty common chromatic harmony in a minor key. It's essentially a chromatic substitution for iv, with a pretty strong pull to i - but often operates like N-V-i (bII-V-i).

Everything else seems to be diatonic to the key.


thankyou very much. I am going to research this.

Also, what about the C minor near the chorus? Where it goes D Major, C minor, B minor?
#10
I didn't hear a C#m, and didn't see one on the transcriptions I found. But if there were a C#m in Bm just think of it as a replacement of iiº, it's not too uncommon.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 17, 2012,
#11
I think what you're talkin about are applied dominants.

For example if you have a basic I ii V I lets say C Dm G C then you can add the dominant (V) of any of those chords. Eg:

I, V of ii, ii, I
would be
C, A, D, G, C

And technicly A major has a C# in it so its out of the key.
What would work even better therefore would make the C# a passing bass note:

C, A/C#, D, G, C

So thats where you get odd chords from.
#12
Quote by chronowarp
I didn't hear a C#m, and didn't see one on the transcriptions I found. But if there were a C#m in Bm just think of it as as replaced for iiº it's not too uncommon.


Very true. Thankyou so much for your help, I greatly appreciate it!
#13
Just to add to what chronowarp is saying about the neapolitan...

... the chromatic alteration of the iv in Bm would be this:
----
-8-8
-9-9
-9-10
-7-7
----


Only one note has changed in the second chord. But the notes now spell out a C major triad.

Arpeggiate it to clearly hear the difference.