#1
Yeah, so basicly, we have a crappy drummer. He screws up big time at least once every gig, and cant remember songs that we have been practicing for almost a year, regulary. He also cant play the double kick, wich would be fine, if he made it up other stuff, but he basicly just plays the same basic rock beat all the time, and does simple fills every now and again. Our basist, who only takes up the drums when we jam alone, is a vastly superior drummer to him. He has been playing for almost 8 years, and is still bad.

Since our songwriting has become much more complex and heavy than it was when we started, this has become a real problem for me. It has come to the point where he has major troubles just plaing the song, without actually doing anything else than snare-hihat-kick-hihat, and is incapable of counting the parts at the same time. Its frustrating to say the least, and its downright embarasing at gigs. And it also bugs me on a personal level, since i am the sole songwriter in the band, and i spend a lot of time on the songs. I dont want to work hard, and then have people turn away, because the drummer is butchering the song.

So me and the basist figured, we should change our drummer. I have already found two guys that would be willing to try out, and as far as i have heard, they are both much better than our current drummer. I have not yet talked to the other guitarist about it, since i really want to tell this to him myself.

The thing is, we are all pretty close friends. We were friends before we started playing, and we have been playing together for 3-4 years. He also enjoys druming for the band and preforming live. I have no idea how to let him go, without obliterating our friendship, but i just cant keep playing with him anymore. All the fun has gone out of playing, and i am actively avoiding practices, because i just dont wanna deal with him anymore.

Should we try out the drummers before kicking him out? That kinda seems like going behind his back, and that is just wrong...

So, how do i kick out a guy that is my pretty good friend, and have him remain a friend.


tl;dr: friend is drummer in band. Friend is bad drummer. Want a new drummer. How to kick him out but still remain firends.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#2
Eh that's a pretty tough one. maybe just talk to him and tell him he needs to get better because you feel like his playing is holding the band back. Or he could switch to percussion, if that would fit in the sound and add a new drummer. If he's willing to put in the work to improve than good or if he is willing to play other percussion than good too. If he is a dick, than probably not a good friend anyways and he will probably quit so good for you too. But you don't necessarily have to boot him point blank.
#3
Quote by treysonpwaters
Eh that's a pretty tough one. maybe just talk to him and tell him he needs to get better because you feel like his playing is holding the band back. Or he could switch to percussion, if that would fit in the sound and add a new drummer. If he's willing to put in the work to improve than good or if he is willing to play other percussion than good too. If he is a dick, than probably not a good friend anyways and he will probably quit so good for you too. But you don't necessarily have to boot him point blank.


Well i am constantly urging him to practice his technique and songs, I record demos especially for him to play along and practice, I go to his house to practice with him alone and break down the songs with him, and it has still gotten us nowhere. Short of telling him "You suck, get better in 2 weeks, or youre out" i have no idea what else to do, except get someone to play the drums for him. And having him on precusion while someone else drums wouldnt really fit...
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
Last edited by gorkyporky at Mar 20, 2012,
#4
Yeah that's about your only option unfortunately because it seems you have exhausted any other. Maybe not so bluntly though lol but just tell him his playing is holding the band back and if you don't see some improvement very soon you are gonna have To find a new drummer. Just be clear it isnt personal, and only is band related, and be constructive not critical. Like tell him things he can do better and things he does, or cant do that aren't working , not "you suck at x, or aren't good enough" . staying friends I guess just depends on the kind of dude he is I guess. He will either step up, step down and be a man about it, or be a bitch and not talk to you anymore.

Edit: and I wouldn't try out drummers without his knowledge if you are friends. Kind of like cheating on your girl, they always find out one day. Lol.
Last edited by treysonpwaters at Mar 20, 2012,
#5
FINISH HIM!

Yeah it seems like quite the predicament. If he is not even attempting to improve his skill, then try your best to kick him out of the band in the friendliest way possible. Now its not going to be a nice conversation, but try to keep your cool and don't insult him even if he is insulting you.

Good Luck.
#6
It's Band Meeting time...

You seem to be taking all of this on your shoulders, where are the other members of the band? Have a band meeting, and without picking on him, point out the short comings of everybody, and give everyone assignments to work on... (Fairly certain that everyone makes a mistake once in a while) Make it clear that all of the critisizm is constructive and for the better of the band... If he won't budge, then there's no hope... Then you present it to him something like, "Look, obviously your priorities as far as the band goes are different than mine... so, we're going to need to look for another drummer"... He'll either accept your decision, or blow up... if he blows his lid, he'll probably come back to you within a day or so to tell you that he'll start working harder... or.. he won't.. either way, you've got to set your own priorities...

Also, one thing that you and he need to understand is that the friendship is seperate from the band.. the band is business... even if it's really not, it may be a good way to present it to him.

tough situation... good luck...
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#7
Well, here's the best way you can salvage the friendship.

Say something to him like this, "So, look, I've been getting a little frustrated with your playing because of X, Y, and Z." (Go into a polite level of detail here without rubbing it in.) "But you're a really good friend of mine, and I like playing with you. I'd rather play with you than any other drummer - but not at the cost of the music actually working. I've been getting increasingly frustrated, but I want to make this work."

"So here's the question: what do you think you can do to take your drumming up a level? Have you thought about lessons? How are you working on getting better? I want to give you every chance to be the guy before I feel the need to go in another direction ... can you make the commitment to do what's required to improve?"

The key here is that you're giving him the option. He may say, "you know what, I don't really want to work that hard." In that case, well - you're not kicking him out so much as he's choosing to leave. It'll still be sticky for a while, but it'll be much better.

And maybe he'll say something like, "I had no idea this was so much of a problem. I'll take lessons and let's see where we are in three months." That'd be great.

The only catch is that if you're going to give him a chance to earn his place in the band, you have to give him that chance. Which means you may be committing to his learning curve (so long as he keeps working at it).
#8
^
Yeah I'd definitely go with that one. If I were in a band and I was holding them back, if someone talked to me like that, I would actually feel bad for them and not mad at them. I would want to improve.
#9
or, break up the band on friday, and on monday reform it again with everybody except the drummer.
#10
Quote by Spaztikko
or, break up the band on friday, and on monday reform it again with everybody except the drummer.


See, this is the sort of thing that's going to guarantee that you have a hard time remaining friends with the guy - because you're lying to him. It doesn't matter what sort of contortions you put on it, the practical reality is that you kicked him out ... and your method has the "advantage" of not being honest with him or treating him with basic human dignity and respect.
#11
Hotspur is bang on the money with both his comments.

1. Address the issue alone with your drummer. Make it clear he needs to get better, or you'll go with someone else. Up to this point it sounds like you guys are just keeping the problem to yourselves, and only pattering around the issue with him.

2. Don't "break up the band and reform with a replacement". That's just cowardly and disrespectful to your friend.


And I'll also add that YOU created this situation by choosing your band mates because they're your friends, rather than picking guys who can play their instruments. It may be something you keep in mind for future bands.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#12
Quote by KORRUSK
FINISH HIM!

Yeah it seems like quite the predicament. If he is not even attempting to improve his skill, then try your best to kick him out of the band in the friendliest way possible. Now its not going to be a nice conversation, but try to keep your cool and don't insult him even if he is insulting you.

Good Luck.


The thing is, he does practice. At least that is what he tells me, i cant be sure if its true.

And i very much doubt, that if he actually pracitces as much as he says he does, that he will ever get better than he is, or at least in a resonable time frame. He just seems untalanted as a drummer, however harsh that sounds. And by playing badly he is hurting our image as a whole band, and since we gig quite reguraly, that just sucks.

Quote by AlanHB


And I'll also add that YOU created this situation by choosing your band mates because they're your friends, rather than picking guys who can play their instruments. It may be something you keep in mind for future bands.



Actually, i joined up with them after their first band broke up. And we were not actually friends before we started playing together.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#13
Quote by gorkyporky
Actually, i joined up with them after their first band broke up. And we were not actually friends before we started playing together.


I see. So you chose to play with a drummer who can't play drums? Does this change your approach to the issue at hand?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#14
To clarify:
I chose to play with the only drummer available, and not having previous band experience, or much experience with playing music at all, i had no idea how good he actually was. I was searching for a drummer for almost a year at that point, and when he showed up, i took him.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#15
And now you know of at least 3, the one in the band, and two more who are willing to try out. So what are you going to do?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#16
It's a tough situation. Definitely don't take the easy way out and split/reform the band. He's gonna find out at some point, and if you thought he'd be pissed about being kicked out wait until he finds out you couldn't even give him the courtesy of looking him in the eye and telling him what you think.

(hint: he'll most likely have some unkind comments about you, and your mother)

Sounds like you've already made the decision, you just need to let him know. Dragging things out is counter-productive. It's like breaking up with a girlfriend that you're just not that into. You wait too long and it's just more drama.
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#17
You need to do what you need to do. A band is a business (if you plan to make aliving out of playing music) its a shitty situation, but do what you have too.
#18
Well to update, we decided to give our drummer an utlimatum. Either he gets better, or he's out. Now he is on a 3-month probation. :P
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.