#1
I am working on diminshed related stuff (as evident by my other post) and was wondering how to incorporate them in progressions. I understand that they often serve a dominant function but was wondering if someone could explain why a progression such as this sounds so good (song is: friends in low places).

A Major, e diminshed 7th, B minor, E major


I am not sure why this progression works...having an e diminshed and E major confuses me...can anyone help clear this up? Thanks!
#2
well remember any diminished chord can be considered any four of the tones used, if it's a diminished 7th chord. The edim is E G Bb...rename the Bb as an A# and it's now acting as a leading tone to the Bm...
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#3
To add to gerraguitar's post, e diminished is F#7b9 without the root. F#7b9 is the most basic obvious dominant chord leading to B minor
#4
Quote by dvm25
I am working on diminshed related stuff (as evident by my other post) and was wondering how to incorporate them in progressions. I understand that they often serve a dominant function but was wondering if someone could explain why a progression such as this sounds so good (song is: friends in low places).

A Major, e diminshed 7th, B minor, E major


I am not sure why this progression works...having an e diminshed and E major confuses me...can anyone help clear this up? Thanks!

Like stated above... a dim7 is symmetrical so any note can be labeled the root.
E dim7 - E G Bb Db. Just label it the most convenient way. It's leading to a B, and there's a Bb (A#) in the chord, so you may as well call it A#dim7 or Bbdim7 to make it extremely clear that it's simply a dominant resolution to B.

The way you used it in this progression is perfectly fine and common...think about these approaches:
1. Substitute the V or any functioning dominant with a dim7 built on the 3rd. (E7=G#dim7)
1a. Use it as a passing chord to create a half step resolution between two chords, for instance: C-C#dim7-Dm-G7-C....this is the same as above, but in this instance it's more to facilitate a smooth bassline than anything.
2. You can do a faux-suspension type of thing by taking a Dim7 and dropping the root to get the dom7 it's related to:
E-->Eb
G-->G
Bb-->Bb
Db-->Db

Edim7-->Eb7
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 22, 2012,
#5
Quote by dvm25
I am working on diminshed related stuff (as evident by my other post) and was wondering how to incorporate them in progressions. I understand that they often serve a dominant function but was wondering if someone could explain why a progression such as this sounds so good (song is: friends in low places).

A Major, e diminshed 7th, B minor, E major


I am not sure why this progression works...having an e diminshed and E major confuses me...can anyone help clear this up? Thanks!

I think before analyzing how °7 chords function in a progression, you should study, and become very familiar with the principals of secondary dominants and tritone substitution.

More so the latter, but the two more or less go hand in hand.
#6
To get to a Minor chord you can use two of the closest dim7 chords to it. These two chords are the dim7 chords a half step below or a whole step above the minor chord.

So, in early posts you know Edim7 is also Gdim7, Bbdim7 and Dbdim7 chords. But nobody has mentioned the movement here...taking into consideration the chord movement it might be more logical to write your progression as A->Bbdim7->Bm->E.
#7
Quote by dvm25
I am working on diminshed related stuff (as evident by my other post) and was wondering how to incorporate them in progressions. I understand that they often serve a dominant function but was wondering if someone could explain why a progression such as this sounds so good (song is: friends in low places).

A Major, e diminshed 7th, B minor, E major


I am not sure why this progression works...having an e diminshed and E major confuses me...can anyone help clear this up? Thanks!

I just listened to that song. Listen to the root movement... it moves up by a semitone. The chord you labelled is enharmonically correct, but the root is Bb, not E.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDzfoQIa_ZY
Last edited by mdc at Mar 22, 2012,
#8
Like stated above... a dim7 is symmetrical so any note can be labeled the root.
E dim7 - E G Bb Db. Just label it the most convenient way. It's leading to a B, and there's a Bb (A#) in the chord, so you may as well call it A#dim7 or Bbdim7 to make it extremely clear that it's simply a dominant resolution to B.
#9
Quote by sakes
Like stated above... a dim7 is symmetrical so any note can be labeled the root.(Invalid img)
E dim7 - E G Bb Db. Just label it the most convenient way. It's leading to a B, and there's a Bb (A#) in the chord, so you may as well call it A#dim7 or Bbdim7 to make it extremely clear that it's simply a dominant resolution to B.
It's leading to a B, and there's a Bb (A#) in the chord, so you may as well call it A#dim7 or Bbdim7 to make it extremely clear
#10
Quote by MikeDodge
To get to a Minor chord you can use two of the closest dim7 chords to it. These two chords are the dim7 chords a half step below or a whole step above the minor chord.

So, in early posts you know Edim7 is also Gdim7, Bbdim7 and Dbdim7 chords. But nobody has mentioned the movement here...taking into consideration the chord movement it might be more logical to write your progression as A->Bbdim7->Bm->E.


The ||: A Bbdim7 | Bm E :|| is the Gong Show Theme, among many many other tunes (Rubber Ducky, solo section of In the Mood, etc...). Pretty common progression. Play each chord for two beats, you'll hear it.
#11
The idea of "approaching a minor chord with a dim7 chord either a half step below or a whole step above the minor chord" has endless uses.

Check it out here for a I-vi-ii-V progression:

||: Fmaj7 | Dm7 | Gm7 | C7 :|| becomes...

approached from a half step below...

||: Fmaj7 Dbdim7 | Dm7 F#dim7 | Gm7 C#9 | C7 Edim7 :||

approached from a whole step above...

||: Fmaj7 Edim7 | Dm7 Adim7 | Gm7 Bbm7 | C7 Gdim7 :||

In each of those iterations the last chord of each measure should fall on beat "4", approaching beat "1".
#12
Quote by MikeDodge
To get to a Minor chord you can use two of the closest dim7 chords to it. These two chords are the dim7 chords a half step below or a whole step above the minor chord.

So, in early posts you know Edim7 is also Gdim7, Bbdim7 and Dbdim7 chords. But nobody has mentioned the movement here...taking into consideration the chord movement it might be more logical to write your progression as A->Bbdim7->Bm->E.

did u read my post?
#13
Quote by MikeDodge
The idea of "approaching a minor chord with a dim7 chord either a half step below or a whole step above the minor chord" has endless uses.

Check it out here for a I-vi-ii-V progression:

||: Fmaj7 | Dm7 | Gm7 | C7 :|| becomes...

approached from a half step below...

||: Fmaj7 Dbdim7 | Dm7 F#dim7 | Gm7 C#9 | C7 Edim7 :||

approached from a whole step above...

||: Fmaj7 Edim7 | Dm7 Adim7 | Gm7 Bbm7 | C7 Gdim7 :||

In each of those iterations the last chord of each measure should fall on beat "4", approaching beat "1".


Great post, thankyou.

I am just confused about near the end of those progressions, why C#9 into C7 for the first one? And why Bbm7 to the C7 in the second. Shouldnt those be Cb (B) (half step below C7) and D min 7 respectively (whole step above C7?
#14
Quote by dvm25
Great post, thankyou.

I am just confused about near the end of those progressions, why C#9 into C7 for the first one? And why Bbm7 to the C7 in the second. Shouldnt those be Cb (B) (half step below C7) and D min 7 respectively (whole step above C7?


Both the C#9 and the Bbm7 are sub names for a G7alt. The C#9 could be a G7#5b9 and the Bbm7 could be a G7b5b9#9. I don't have my guitar but I think those are right.

In both cases they function as the V7 of C7. So, while the previous chord is Gm, it moves to G7 to make the move to the C Root more prominent...or dominant if you will.

That example is a snippet of Part 1 of a two part series I did on the I-iv-ii-V progression here:

http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/substitutions-and-the-vim-iim-v-i-progression-part-1-of-2-t3.html

http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/substitutions-and-the-vim-iim-v-i-progression-part-2-of-2-t4.html

There's a ton of info in those two links, help yourself.
#16
Quote by jayx124
It can be used in the movement from the I to the ii for example Fmaj7 F#dim7 G-7


You can take it one more step further and use one to get the the IIm7(Gm7) to the IIIm7(Am7) like so so...

| Fmaj7 F#dim7 | Gm7 G#dim7 | Am7 | etc...

And if you take my idea of "approaching a m7 chord using a dim7 chord either a half step below or a whole step above the m7 chord" you can get something like this creating a nice chromatic movement up and down again...

||: Fmaj7 F#dim7 | Gm7 G#dim7 | Am7 Adim7 | Gm7 F#7b5 :||

The F#7b5, or F#7alt, is used in place of a V7 chord (in this case in place of C7) to resolve back to the Tonic chord, Fmaj7.