#1
i have a fender frontman combo amp. ive never used it for really big venues, just clubs and bars. gotta big gig comin up at a venue thats capacity is 2500. would my combo amp be cool for that? is there really a need for a big half stack if there gonna mic ya anyway?
#2
If its gonna be mic'd into a PA, then no probs!
Originally Posted by ibanez_guru
ARE YOU TONE ******ED??????

Thats not a dig either, its a serious question!!!!!!!!!


Quote by gregs1020
well i did sit 5th row for the who in '82.

ears are still ringing a bit.
#4
Not this again? Are the drums loud enough to fill the venue un-miked? Are you as loud as the drums? If the answer to both of those is yes then you have to be loud enough too don't you?
If the drums need to be miked then so will you. You will want to put the amp on a milk crate to get better projection.
In a big venue you have to mike up the cab regardless of what it is so the PA can look after how well everything is getting across the entire venue. Even a full stack is not going to be distributed evenly across the whole venue. The PA's job is to get a good mix everywhere, that's why PA speakers are lifted up into the air above the crowd. All you have to worry about is how you are on stage. If you can hear yourself ok in a club then you will hear yourself ok on an outdoor stage as well. In fact it's in small clubs where you have the most trouble trying to get over the drums. On big stages it's easier because he's further away from you.
I always mike up the amp even in small venues otherwise the sound guy has no control over front of house. Not miking the amp is pure amateur hour stuff.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 22, 2012,
#5
Quote by Cathbard
Not this again? Are the drums loud enough to fill the venue un-miked? Are you as loud as the drums? If the answer to both of those is yes then you have to be loud enough too don't you?
If the drums need to be miked then so will you. You will want to put the amp on a milk crate to get better projection.
In a big venue you have to mike up the cab regardless of what it is so the PA can look after how well everything is getting across the entire venue. Even a full stack is not going to be distributed evenly across the whole venue. The PA's job is to get a good mix everywhere, that's why PA speakers are lifted up into the air above the crowd. All you have to worry about is how you are on stage. If you can hear yourself ok in a club then you will hear yourself ok on an outdoor stage as well. In fact it's in small clubs where you have the most trouble trying to get over the drums. On big stages it's easier because he's further away from you.
I always mike up the amp even in small venues otherwise the sound guy has no control over front of house. Not miking the amp is pure amateur hour stuff.



Wow, he is grumpy. But spot on
Originally Posted by ibanez_guru
ARE YOU TONE ******ED??????

Thats not a dig either, its a serious question!!!!!!!!!


Quote by gregs1020
well i did sit 5th row for the who in '82.

ears are still ringing a bit.
#6
grumpy and confused. the question isnt about things being miked up through the PA. its more about wether theres a need for something bigger than a combo amp at a big venue. yes it will be miked, almost everywhere ive ever played mikes the amps. but i notice bands still use gigantic full stacks when playin bigger places. i assume sense you just get miked everywhere nowadays that theres know real reason for the big shit anymore. besides looking cool. but then i think maybe im wrong..maybe a combo amp IS too small for a large venue. but thanks i feel better that other people think a combo amps fine for this
#7
I did answer you. All you need to do is hear yourself against the drummer onstage. He's the same volume everywhere you play pretty much. So what does it matter how big the venue is?
The PA looks after FOH. The worst thing for FoH is to have too much sound coming off stage because it makes it harder to mix the band across the venue. Some guys face their amps away from the audience for that very reason.
You see those walls of speakers? Half the time there is the actual amp they are using behind them, sometimes even in an iso-cab. You don't want the amp's sound to be going to FoH directly if you can help it. On stage sound is all you should care about and what has venue size got to do with that?
Now re-read what I wrote and you will see that I already said those things.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#8
Quote by Razor1977
yes it will be miked, almost everywhere ive ever played mikes the amps.


Then regardless of whether you have a 30w or 300w amp it will still be running at the same volume - loud enough for you to hear, but not so loud it messes with the pa mix.
But in plain English the answer is: No, there is no need.
#9
you will be mic'd.. you will be fine.
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Well, technically it could be done, but only in the same way that you could change a cat into a hamburger. It's an unpleasant process, and nobody is happy with the result.
#11
Dude, more cabs looks badass!
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#12
Quote by Razor1977
grumpy and confused. the question isnt about things being miked up through the PA. its more about wether theres a need for something bigger than a combo amp at a big venue.


How is he confused? What he said is true. If you can hear yourself onstage, then the amp is big enough if it's miked. The PA projects it to the audience, you just have to be able to hear yourself over the drums... and I'm really just paraphrasing here, I'm really not making any points Cathbard didn't already cover. You could play anywhere from a decent sized bar to wembley stadium, and it won't matter. If your amp can be heard over the drums onstage, it's loud enough. And if you have a good sound guy, and good monitors (PA), even that isn't really necessary.
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#13
it's already been said so i don't have much to add here, if you're miced you're fine. but one of the reasons you see stacks vs combos has really nothing to do with stuff like that. guys prefer the tone of that amp and how it projects with a 4x12 cab. i mean if you want to get technical with it a 2x12 combo is going to react differently than a 4x12 cab, but in the end since you're miced your sound will still be heard.
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I would recommend the marshal MG100

Very versatile and quality sound. It should treat you well
#14
Quote by Razor1977
... but i notice bands still use gigantic full stacks when playin bigger places...


Most of the time it's purely for 'show', you go to see a big rock band you expect to see a wall of amps right? Just a leftover relic from the days where that kinda stuff was necessary. Even hearing your own amp on stage isn't really an issue, as if your amp is mic-ed the sound guy will be able to put it through the monitoring system anyway. I've gigged on occasion with a single 5W champ in this manner.
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Last edited by jukejointjohnny at Mar 22, 2012,
#15
http://youtu.be/PEn2o9-DBzU

Poor video quality, but they're not using anything bigger than 30 watts here. Size is irrelevant, although if it's not a combo, it's a head (usually around 18 watts) going into a 2x12. Jerome still has his Orange halfstack for when he layers rhythm parts, but he keeps it way out of the way.
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#16
First, listen to Cath. He's right.

Most places want stage volume down nowdays anyway, which is one more reason why everyone mics everything on stage.

If Eric Clapton still plays the Cross Roads Festival with a 1x10 combo, then any reputable venue, inside or out, will be able to accommodate.

As for giant double full stack rigs and other ridiculousness... I'm not sure what groups you're referring too, but if its a bigger name, try looking behind the stacks. It will be likely that there might be a head, 1 real 4x12 and the rest of the rig is just a cardboard cut out that looks real and looks bad ass. I've seen photos of an entire wall of mesa full stacks that was totally fake with an iso booth behind running a trio of combos. If the whole rig is real, check to see how many of the cabs are actually plugged in and pushing sound. Just sayin, reality isn't always what it seems... have you watched the news lately? lol!
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#17
Cath is right except for his last sentence: "Not miking the amp is pure amateur hour stuff."

I know professionals who've been playing out for decades that do this all the time, as long as the venues aren't particularly big. How is it not amateur? Because the drummer has dynamic control and the band knows how to sufficiently set their levels.

Never been a problem with the amps not cutting enough - a good 50 watt head going into a 1x12 cab, with the master around 7-8, isn't buried by the drums at all in modest venues. In fact, in some situations, the amps are arguably too loud, unmiced.

What's truly amatuer is drummers without dynamic control, and guitar and bass players who don't know how to set their own levels for a live mix.

To bring this to a more explicitly "professional" level, I saw Allan holdsworth play at a local smaller vanue last year. No mic on the amp. Same with Scott Henderson. Same with Dave Weiner. Are they amateurs?
Last edited by Brainpolice2 at Mar 22, 2012,
#18
When I saw Burian Carrol play, he got mad at the sound guy or something and just started playing through the amp.

He's pretty pro?
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