#1
Hey guys! I've bought my first valve amp(Laney Cub12), and I've been having a lot of fun with it. Now, people always tell me to put it on standby before and after playing. I don't have any standby switch. Should I just turn the amp on, wait a minute and play? And after I'm done - let it calm at normal ON mode before turning it off?
#2
Just turn it on and off. No warmup waiting necessary, it will fade in when it's ready. Standby switches are overrated.
#3
yup. also before turning it off of switching it on turn all of the knobs down to zero to make sure that theres no output. do the same with your guitar. at the beginning its slightly awkward doing all of this but it quickly becomes a routine that you wont forget and it wont bother you.
#4
I'm using MASSIVE amounts of overdrive. The gain is usually at 9. And when I say usually, I mean that if it's not on 9, it's on 10 with an overdrive pedal on top.

No warm ups?
#5
Quote by TheDuckMajor
yup. also before turning it off of switching it on turn all of the knobs down to zero to make sure that theres no output. do the same with your guitar. at the beginning its slightly awkward doing all of this but it quickly becomes a routine that you wont forget and it wont bother you.

Or you could not do any of that because it's totally unnecessary.
How exactly is turning all the knobs down going to help anything?

Quote by eyalcisv
I'm using MASSIVE amounts of overdrive. The gain is usually at 9. And when I say usually, I mean that if it's not on 9, it's on 10 with an overdrive pedal on top.

No warm ups?

The amp doesn't care. It's fine. No warmup.
#6
Quote by eyalcisv
I'm using MASSIVE amounts of overdrive. The gain is usually at 9. And when I say usually, I mean that if it's not on 9, it's on 10 with an overdrive pedal on top.

No warm ups?


no, id let it warm up. i usually trust roc333 but giving up to impatience isnt worth the money for new tubes if you bust them
#7
Do you have any reason to believe that they need to warm up any more than the natural ramp-up? Especially with all the knobs down?
This isn't about impatience. This is about there being no reason whatsoever for what you're suggesting from an electrical or mechanical standpoint.
#8
Quote by Roc8995
Do you have any reason to believe that they need to warm up any more than the natural ramp-up? Especially with all the knobs down?
This isn't about impatience. This is about there being no reason whatsoever for what you're suggesting from an electrical or mechanical standpoint.


listen, i not a genius when it comes to electronics but when im using a tube amp im gonna do what it says on the manual cos TBH im a college student and im tight on money and i really dont have money to spend on tubes if i dont need to.
#9
Every Boss pedal says to use a Boss PSA adapter in the manual, too, but a lot of other AC-DC adapters will power the pedals and will actually work better due to improved filtering and regulation.

Your choice, though. I'm trying to help you make an informed decision based on my knowledge of the subject. If there's a satisfactory reason to do what you suggest, I haven't heard it. You can take care of your gear however you think is best, but I'd encourage everyone to gain a basic understanding of why you do what you choose to do.
#10
you get a better robben ford tone if you do that*


*according to you-know-where
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#11
Laney recommend waiting 30 seconds to 2 mins for tubes to warm up - but your not going to hurt your amp if you dont. If you switch it on then by the time you do a quick tune up, plug everything in and get ready it should be good to go.

If it needed a standby switch Laney would of included one.

Turning knobs to zero is totally unnecessary and a total pain in the arse as you would need to find your settings again every time you play...

To be really safe you should turn knobs to zero, unplug amp from wall and place amp back in its original cardboard box and tape closed.
Last edited by zero at Mar 22, 2012,
#12
Quote by zero
Laney recommend waiting 30 seconds to 2 mins for tubes to warm up - but your not going to hurt your amp if you dont. If you switch it on then by the time you do a quick tune up, plug everything in and get ready it should be good to go.

If it needed a standby switch Laney would of included one.

Turning knobs to zero is totally unnecessary and a total pain in the arse as you would need to find your settings again every time you play...

To be really safe you should turn knobs to zero, unplug amp from wall and place amp back in its original cardboard box and tape closed.



Thanks! A great tip about the tuning.
#13
Interesting thread, thanks roc. I read this thread while waiting for my amp to warm up for the last time
#14
Quote by Roc8995
If there's a satisfactory reason to do what you suggest, I haven't heard it. You can take care of your gear however you think is best, but I'd encourage everyone to gain a basic understanding of why you do what you choose to do.


Roc8995, gonna get a bit tech (apologies if this goes over peoples heads).

I always enjoyed the discussion between the instant on compared to power on then wait until standby.

I always thought it was to allow the cathode temp to overcome its binding potential prior to applying the plate field? The kickstart of an amp and it fading in when you apply both the ‘power’ and ‘standby’ at the same time is because the heater brings the filament to temperature to allow field emission when the plate field is already on.

But in some tubes the cathode is coated with emissive material (various oxides?) that can be stripped away prior to heating, around when temp is rising to the knee of the metal binding function which then the first electrons are thrown across. Pre heating for a few seconds lets the cathode come up to temp (before applying the field) gets it into its free emission range ready for when the field is applied?

It’s similar to pre heating of flouro tubes? ( I know, they are a gas discharge device, but the filament heating philosophy is the same?). You can cold start a flouro tube without any filament heat but that prematurely strips the emissive material from the filaments. If you let the filaments heat up for just a short few seconds before you apply the start voltage its proven that you get longer lifetime from the lamp?

I’m by no means an expert on thermionic valves (I did my degree in the solid state world and valves were never part of any of my studies, I just have an interest in them in a co-incidental fashion because of the tube amps I own) so if the above is incorrect, could you explain why?
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#15
I though you turned everything down to avoid loud pops - which could potentially cause over-excursion of the speaker (where the speaker physically moves beyond it's design spec to the point where it becomes damaged).
#16
Any amp with a tube recto, and a lot of them with a SS recto, have a built-in warmup that does this automatically when you turn the amp on. The other factor is that it only takes a couple of seconds to warm up a tube, not the minute or two that's commonly cited. That means that the amount of "damage" that might be done to a tube is very minimal, if there is any at all, and it's almost certainly negligible when compared to the beating amp tubes take by being rut at or above their specs.

Cathode stripping just isn't a huge deal when your tubes only last a year or two. In hifi systems where the tubes are run under spec and are expected to last 5, 10, 20 years, then you'd notice a difference in tube life. How do amp tubes usually fail? They wear out, or get microphonic, or they short because of mechanical or thermal stress. None of these are caused by cathode stripping, and even if they were the three or four seconds of it that the tube undergoes when you flip the switch (assuming whoever designed the amp included absolutely no warmup mechanism) just aren't going to do any meaningful amount of damage.

As a side note, some amps like the AC30 really have problems when you use the standby switch. The rectifier tube usually ramps everything up nicely as it warms up, but if you use the standby switch, you get a bunch of inrush current and can actually blow the power tubes. With that sort of amp (and IMO with any type) the best option is to only use the standby switch to mute the amp for short breaks, when you wouldn't want to wait to power down and back up again.
#17
Quote by Roc8995

Cathode stripping just isn't a huge deal when your tubes only last a year or two. In hifi systems where the tubes are run under spec and are expected to last 5, 10, 20 years, then you'd notice a difference in tube life. How do amp tubes usually fail? They wear out, or get microphonic, or they short because of mechanical or thermal stress. None of these are caused by cathode stripping, and even if they were the three or four seconds of it that the tube undergoes when you flip the switch (assuming whoever designed the amp included absolutely no warmup mechanism) just aren't going to do any meaningful amount of damage.

As a side note, some amps like the AC30 really have problems when you use the standby switch. The rectifier tube usually ramps everything up nicely as it warms up, but if you use the standby switch, you get a bunch of inrush current and can actually blow the power tubes. With that sort of amp (and IMO with any type) the best option is to only use the standby switch to mute the amp for short breaks, when you wouldn't want to wait to power down and back up again.


Yeah what you say is fair enough. Agree that you only need a few seconds to warm up a filament before its good to go instead of 30+ seconds or even minutes. If a single control power switch amp (without standby) uses circuitry to allow a few seconds dwell time to the heater before applying the plate field (like a soft start) then it wouldn't be a problem. For those amps with a standby switch would still be prudent to hold off on the standby switch even for just a few seconds after powering up though instead of at the same time?

Happy that you affirmed my understanding that cathode stripping can and does occur. Agree that in most cases primary failure tube failure is usually by another mechanism (usually mechanical damage or heat stress).

As many valve amps now tend to use solid state rectifiers for the power supply stage(s) and tubes for the pre/power amp stages I'd assume the current in rush would be unavoidable for those (unless they used inrush current limiting circuitry).
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Last edited by Phoenix V at Mar 23, 2012,