#1
Ok so basically I've been playing on the same rig since i started 2 and a half years ago, my skills have progressed but im needing better tone. Basically I play all metal from maiden - cannibal corpse, trivium - immortal, E-standard down to realistically A# for stuff like dream theater, so i need a guitar/amp (cant be more than 30w due to parents)/mfx pedal which can do all this. preferably V shaped but tone takes precidence over looks. Double locking trem+24 frets is a must.

Not opposed to buying second hand, budgets are roughly:

350-400 for a guitar
150-200 for amp
150-200 for effects pedals/mfx pedals
Pain is weakness leaving your body.
Last edited by DarXyde at Mar 25, 2012,
#2
You can get a good LTD or Jackson for that budget.

Amp, Peavey Vypyr 30. Pretty good, 200 bucks new. And with that you really won't need pedals.
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#3
For an amp.
Go with a Black Heart or a Jet City. Low watt tube heads/combos for a great price.

Guitars- You could get a used LTD or a Jackson. (If you want a V) If not you could get an Ibanez.

Effects- I use a Boss ME-70. So I'll just suggest that.
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#4
Go with a ltd for guitar and a line 6 spider IV 75w for amp just keep your volume down at home with that amp you can cut out a mfx pedal too and way better than a peavey vyper in my opinion and also gigable at most venues
#5
I prefer the Vypyr and Cube more then the Spider, personally. Don't have much experience with the Valvetronix, but I'm pretty sure it's geared towards cleaner tones. They all suck. Get something with a 12" speaker.

The Crate GX-130 was what Jack Owen used on... The Bleeding? There are smaller amps in the GX series, I recommend getting one of those, really. Awesome metal amps for the price, and it's got more mojo than modelling for sure.

They all suck. Get something with a 12" speaker.

Guitar is all about how the neck feels. Seriously, just get one that FEELS right. Your going to want dual humbuckers. I know that much.
"If you're looking for me,
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because that's where you'll find me..."
#6
Quote by dimetime94
Go with a ltd for guitar and a line 6 spider IV 75w for amp just keep your volume down at home with that amp you can cut out a mfx pedal too and way better than a peavey vyper in my opinion and also gigable at most venues


line 6 spider IV is better than a peavey vyper? not sure if trolling.

just ignore this comment TS.
#7
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
I prefer the Vypyr and Cube more then the Spider, personally. Don't have much experience with the Valvetronix, but I'm pretty sure it's geared towards cleaner tones. They all suck. Get something with a 12" speaker.

The Crate GX-130 was what Jack Owen used on... The Bleeding? There are smaller amps in the GX series, I recommend getting one of those, really. Awesome metal amps for the price, and it's got more mojo than modelling for sure.

They all suck. Get something with a 12" speaker.

Guitar is all about how the neck feels. Seriously, just get one that FEELS right. Your going to want dual humbuckers. I know that much.



Yeah I've played my mates Cort with H-H and it destroys my ibanez with H-S-H e.e
Pain is weakness leaving your body.
#8
Ibanez stock pickups are poopy. They keep down the stock price so you can choose the ones YOU want.

I like the original Wizard A LOT. Quite a bit more than any Cort I have ever played.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#9
Quote by TheDuckMajor
line 6 spider IV is better than a peavey vyper? not sure if trolling.

just ignore this comment TS.


I too was going to call troll, then I saw he's a march 2012'er so its probably his first amp and he thinks it the dogs bollocks. Its really not though, definetly buy a vypyr.

In all honesty though I would wait till you've more cash and then properly improve your rig, a few hundred more into the guitar and amp funds each will get you far better gear.
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Last edited by RetroGunslinger at Mar 25, 2012,
#10
Quote by dimetime94
Go with a ltd for guitar and a line 6 spider IV 75w for amp just keep your volume down at home with that amp you can cut out a mfx pedal too and way better than a peavey vyper in my opinion and also gigable at most venues


Seriously?

Maybe a Line 6 HD500 and might not even need another amp or other effects.

It would be helpful to know what current gear is.

If the current amp set to clean Fs up the tone on the HD500 too bad, then you can live with it at home, and plug the HD500 straight into the PA at gigs.

My Marshall MG30DFX muddies up the tone from my old Digitech GNX4, but that MFX sounds almost as good direct through a PA as it does through my all tube Marshall half-stack. Good enought that I leave the big amp at home when we do shows at places with house drums. That way we can go in a 30mpg car instead of an 11mpg truck/trailer. I don't even bother setting up and firing up the half-stack for band practice either anymore. We save the tubes, set-up time, and it's more controllable through the PA. The difference in tone is negligible.

BTW, I played the GNX4 through a Spider at one show and it was God-awful. I've been plugging direct to the PA at that venue ever since, and bring my VOX DA5 along pointed at us for monitoring--we feed the vocal mic through the GNX4, too. Then the DA5 gets an unbalanced output from the GNX4 and the PA gets the balanced out. I'm right in front of one of the PA speakers, but this way our drummer/singer can hear herself and the guitar. It was a challenge before we started doing that; much harder to stay together when all anyone can hear on stage it drums.

What's wrong with your current guitar, or do you just need another so you can have multiple tunings since you're using locking trems?
#11
Quote by RetroGunslinger
I too was going to call troll, then I saw he's a march 2012'er so its probably his first amp and he thinks it the dogs bollocks. Its really not though, definetly buy a vypyr.

We are comparing a Vypyr to a Spider. They both kinda suck really.

TS, do you NEED a new amp? Save up for a JCM2000!
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#12
why is it the spider lot always slag of the vypyr lot and vice versa? never know who to believe?..
Pain is weakness leaving your body.
#13
Quote by RetroGunslinger
I too was going to call troll, then I saw he's a march 2012'er so its probably his first amp and he thinks it the dogs bollocks. Its really not though, definetly buy a vypyr.


Maybe he is a troll and it's a March 12 account since his other accounts are banned.
#14
Quote by jetwash69
Maybe he is a troll and it's a March 12 account since his other accounts are banned.

In that case yes he probably is trolling
My Gear:
BC Rich Gunslinger Retro Blade
Vintage V100 Paradise + SD Alnico Pro Slash APH-2's
1963 Burns Short Scale Jazz Guitar
Dean Performer Florentine
Bugera 6260
Orange Micro Terror + cab
Digitech Bad Monkey
Zoom G2G
#15
Quote by DarXyde
350-400 for a guitar
150-200 for amp
150-200 for effects pedals/mfx pedals

Forget the pedals, just get a good tone going by spending it on the amp. This gives you 400 for an amp, which will make a big difference, maybe look into Jet City, will smoke a solid state amp.
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#16
Quote by jetwash69
Seriously?

Maybe a Line 6 HD500 and might not even need another amp or other effects.

It would be helpful to know what current gear is.

If the current amp set to clean Fs up the tone on the HD500 too bad, then you can live with it at home, and plug the HD500 straight into the PA at gigs.

My Marshall MG30DFX muddies up the tone from my old Digitech GNX4, but that MFX sounds almost as good direct through a PA as it does through my all tube Marshall half-stack. Good enought that I leave the big amp at home when we do shows at places with house drums. That way we can go in a 30mpg car instead of an 11mpg truck/trailer. I don't even bother setting up and firing up the half-stack for band practice either anymore. We save the tubes, set-up time, and it's more controllable through the PA. The difference in tone is negligible.

BTW, I played the GNX4 through a Spider at one show and it was God-awful. I've been plugging direct to the PA at that venue ever since, and bring my VOX DA5 along pointed at us for monitoring--we feed the vocal mic through the GNX4, too. Then the DA5 gets an unbalanced output from the GNX4 and the PA gets the balanced out. I'm right in front of one of the PA speakers, but this way our drummer/singer can hear herself and the guitar. It was a challenge before we started doing that; much harder to stay together when all anyone can hear on stage it drums.

What's wrong with your current guitar, or do you just need another so you can have multiple tunings since you're using locking trems?


Using Ibanez GRG170DX, Marshall MG10 and some OD pedal I saw in guitar shop (dunno its name but its pretty good), Nothing especially wrong with my guitar, I just need another one because i re-tune it so often that the strings snap stupid amounts (think like bending the lid of a coke can, it soon snaps after a while)
Pain is weakness leaving your body.
#17
Quote by DarXyde
(think like bending and a lid of coke, it soon snaps after a while)

Fix'd

Dude, just keep your MG. It's a fine practice amp. Get a kickass POD or something.

Otherwise your going to need to sell it later.

My OPINION: Don't get both an amp and a multi-fx. One or the other, and you'll be happy with it for many many years.

If you skipped the FX unit, you could get like an Ampeg VH-140. Google that one. Such an awesome metal amp.

Skip the amp, and you can get a POD HD500, and some headphones to boot. That's a damn fine processor, and your parents will thank you.

Amps have volume knobs too, you know
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#18
Quote by theonecalledjoe
For an amp.
Go with a Black Heart or a Jet City. Low watt tube heads/combos for a great price.

Guitars- You could get a used LTD or a Jackson. (If you want a V) If not you could get an Ibanez.

Effects- I use a Boss ME-70. So I'll just suggest that.


The Jet City won't get you into that type of gain area on its own - you would likely need pedals. However, I havent tried boosting my Jet City JCA20h yet, so I cant comment on how effective that would be. (I dont play metal, so I probably never will)


edit: if you scrap the pedals you might be able to invest in a JCA22h, which has a second channel, that is reportedly higher gain than the single channel JCA20. So that might be an option - they are solidly built and sound incredible, I'd recommend them if it fits what you're looking for.
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Last edited by ma_tt11 at Mar 25, 2012,
#19
Quote by DarXyde
why is it the spider lot always slag of the vypyr lot and vice versa? never know who to believe?..

The Spider lot haven't gotten over the fact that they were conned at the guitar store. The Vypyr lot know better.

At least some of the Vypyrs have tube power sections--without costing an arm and a leg more like the SpiderValves.

Line 6's HD technology might change things a bit for future Spiders.

IMHO the Vypyrs' human interface leaves a lot to be desired, but maybe the Sampera pedals sort that out. Maybe not--hard to find pedal controller demos in stores where I live. But worse for me is I just didn't like the sounds from the Vypyr when I got into tweaking it.

The Fender Mustangs aren't as metal oriented as the Vypyr, but IMHO they produce better tones overall--gigworthy even. I know seasoned professionals who've replaced their vintage Fender tube amps with Mustangs on stage and the tone actually improved (their old amps were 1 trick ponies). The first time I heard it, I had to do a double take when I saw it was solid state because it sounded so good. But that was for blues and you want to do metal, so the Mustang might not be your thing.

If you don't have it sorted out by April when the Mustang Floor comes out, then check those out. New, the HD500s are about $500. I wouldn't consider the HD300 or HD400s; you lose too much capabiilty/control. But from what I've seen so far, it looks like the Fender Mustang Floor will deliver the HD500 level capability for $300.
#20
Quote by DarXyde
Using Ibanez GRG170DX, Marshall MG10 and some OD pedal I saw in guitar shop (dunno its name but its pretty good), Nothing especially wrong with my guitar, I just need another one because i re-tune it so often that the strings snap stupid amounts (think like bending the lid of a coke can, it soon snaps after a while)


Yeah, OK.

Might as well upgrade to an actual RG if you're going Ibanez; you probably don't need another GIO. I'd recommend a used XPT700 since they got great D-activator pups, but if you're gonna play live that guitar is hard to play standing since the neck likes to dive. It would be OK for home practice and recording, but that's probably not enough for you. There are plenty of good RGs either new or used in the range you're looking for.

If you get any used (or even new) Floyd Rose-type guitar in your price range, take the bridge off before buying it and make sure the knife edges aren't F-d up. All it takes is a little adjustment of the action with the strings under tension and the knife edges can get jacked up-then the tuning will never be stable. When you do get the guitar, be sure to always pop the springs off the trem block before adjusting the action. This is particularly important for Edge III, Jackson LFRs, Floyd Rose Specials, and other inexpensive locking trems, but it's also a good practice for high-dollar locking trems like Original Floyd Roses, and Edge trems.

Floyd Rose (FR) trem systems will require different setups for different tunings. The D-Tuna only works for non-floating FR setups, so if you're going to block the bridge so you can't pull up, then what's the point of having an FR? My point here is this new guitar will have to stay in one tuning if you're getting a locking trem. So you'll still be using your GIO for all the other stuff you want to play in all the other tunings.
#21
Could you be persuaded into re-shuffling your budget?

While I use an Ibanez RG 3EXFM1 (Basically just a standard RG series with Ibanez V8 + V7 pick ups) as my main metal guitar, I can get a pretty decent sound out of my Vintage Les paul copy, which you can probably pick up for about £200 these days.

I have an Orange Rocker 30 all valve amp, which I picked up for 350 second hand, aswell as an Ibanez ts-9 and a Boss ME-50. It's not the best rig ever, admittedly, it's far from amazing - but it's seems like it's the exact level you're after. (I'm the same, got bored of using the same rig for 4 years, so I upgraded).

If you spend were to say, 350 on the amp, 250 on the guitar and 100 on the pedal, I think you'd realistically find something cool. I wouldn't ever tell someone to buy a Boss ME-50, as I think it sounds very 2-Dimensional - but it does give you that massive OTT gain which you want. I play anything from Blues jamming, to Chelsea Grin/Whitechapel. And as I say, I'll be perfectly honest and say it needs improvement, massively - it's alright. I enjoy using it, I feel like I got it all well priced, i have a fair amount of versitility + a good building block in which I can improve on piece by piece.

Just my story, haha.
#22
Quote by Into Exile
I have an Orange Rocker 30 all valve amp, which I picked up for 350 second hand, aswell as an Ibanez ts-9 and a Boss ME-50. It's not the best rig ever, admittedly, it's far from amazing - but it's seems like it's the exact level you're after. (I'm the same, got bored of using the same rig for 4 years, so I upgraded).

The VH140 is WAY quieter than the Rocker 30, would probably do better concert-volume metal than it as well.
,
Death, Morbid Angel, Suffocation, Anal Blast, Dying Fetus, they all used the VH140 or similiar as far as I remember.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#23
Where are you located? That will have a large effect on what you can find used (craigs list, etc.).

If you go on ebay, you can score a Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 and a Sanpera I foot controller for around $400 - you just have to wait for the right bids. Don't worry about the Wattage - the Vypyr's have excellent volume control, and you can control the volume for each channel in addition to a master volume. I have no problem making my Vypyr 120H sound quieter than a whisper.

As for guitar, I know you wanted a V, but find an Ibanez S (470 or 320, or something like that). They can be had for $300-400 used. Nothing else in your budget will be better, when it comes to trems. You want to stay away from cheap trems, as they will wear sooner than later. Ibanez S guitars are the only guitars out there that have good trems in your price range.

If you shop smart and wait for the right deals, you could possibly also have enough left over to upgrade the pickups in the Ibanez.
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Last edited by Offworld92 at Mar 25, 2012,
#24
Quote by jetwash69
Maybe he is a troll and it's a March 12 account since his other accounts are banned.

This is my first account and i just decided to make one because i dont really find much need for myself to use a forum much and no i definitely dont think a spider is the best amp but for a cheap practice amp its ok, I actually own a recording studio and have a few great amps including a peavey 6505+ a orange rockerverb and a krank rev+ and i have a mesa and a orange cab
#25
Quote by dimetime94
This is my first account and i just decided to make one because i dont really find much need for myself to use a forum much and no i definitely dont think a spider is the best amp but for a cheap practice amp its ok, I actually own a recording studio and have a few great amps including a peavey 6505+ a orange rockerverb and a krank rev+ and i have a mesa and a orange cab


... But you said the spider is way better than the vypyr (and in this case, TS plays metal), and that it is fine for most venues.

TS; If you're gonna gig, get a used Peavey Ultra combo. Will kick the arse of all the other recommendations in this thread (maybe except the Vyper Tube). Should be about $200-250.

Edit: I might have sounded a bit cocky, but the Ultra's a great amp for the price.
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Professor Plum in the Studio with a new Amp

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Last edited by AtaBorMan at Mar 25, 2012,
#26
meaning a 75w would be better to gig with than a 30w vyper i guess it depends on the tones your looking for and if you have a fbv switch to upgrade to the new software because one of my friends which is a beginner just bought a spider IV with a fbv and he upgraded and it gave him some more options tone wise and it sounds pretty descent or the price.
#27
Quote by dimetime94
meaning a 75w would be better to gig with than a 30w vyper i guess it depends on the tones your looking for and if you have a fbv switch to upgrade to the new software because one of my friends which is a beginner just bought a spider IV with a fbv and he upgraded and it gave him some more options tone wise and it sounds pretty descent or the price.



... I can't understand what you're trying to say. Ever heard of one of these? ---> .
Quote by Todd Hart
Shooting your friends with a real gun is a definite faux pas.

Quote by mystical_1
Professor Plum in the Studio with a new Amp

Quote by snipelfritz
If only I were the only one at home right now. I don't need my parents asking who Mr. Wiggles is.
#28
Quote by dimetime94
This is my first account and i just decided to make one because i dont really find much need for myself to use a forum much and no i definitely dont think a spider is the best amp but for a cheap practice amp its ok, I actually own a recording studio and have a few great amps including a peavey 6505+ a orange rockerverb and a krank rev+ and i have a mesa and a orange cab


Hey Dimetime94, welcome aboard. You'll find that the Line 6 Spiders and Marshall MGs are the 2 most hated series of amps around here at UG.

My personal experience comes from owning an MG30DFX as my first amp and from dozens of hours in guitar stores waiting for my kid's music lessons, passing the time messing with the Spiders, including the Line 6/Bogner Spider Valves, and other amps, I gotta say that those two series earn their reputation around here. Plus I mentioned my experience playing a Spider live in one of my above posts.

The speaker in the MG isn't horrible; I've unplugged the speaker from the amp and sometimes use it as a cab for a Marshall tube head. That gets the mud right out of it. Of course, I don't crank that past 3, but that's still too loud for most of the venues I've played.

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon here. I was chasing tone with my MG for about a year, even with a GNX4, before I realized I could plug the MFX into a keyboard amp, use the speaker emulation, and it would sound so much better. Since then the MG has been gathering dust except the few times I used it as a 1x10 cab. I haven't plugged the speaker back to the built in amp since, and probably never will. I personally feel conned that the salesman at GC didn't bat an eye when I bought the MG to go along with an MIA Standard Strat; he didn't even suggest that there might be better alternatives. I suspect they have a better profit margin w/those MGs and Spiders than with the Peaveys or VOXes. And every time I go to any GC anywhere around the country, I see a salesman pushing a Spider to some parent and excited kid becuase they don't know better. Well, evey GC except the one I visited in Austin; they mainly had amps like the ones you mentioned, Fender tube amps, and PRS amps. I've never seen so many Mesas in one place in my life. They hardly had room for Spiders and MGs there.

Anyway I came to my conclusions on those 2 amp series long before I got into the UG forums. There's enough hard feelings over those 2 series of amps that many regulars here will genuinely wonder whether someone's a troll if they recommend either amp for any purpose other than to sound bad on purpose. These two amps even have their own memes around here.

The thing is that there are so many better options out there for the money even for a cheap practice amp. Even a 5 watt, battery operated VOX DA5 is better. But maybe not the Mini 3.

So I hope this helps communicate where most UGers are coming from when they make strong recommendations against Spiders and MGs, and are suspicious of anyone recommending them.

I'm sure you have a wealth of information that will be useful to UGers, so I look forward to your future contributions.