#1
Hey guys,

Some time ago I bought a Marshall Vintage Modern 50 Watt Head. (2266)
Now the problem with the amp is that whenever I switch over to the high dynamic range the amp is extremely fizzy whenever I play. When I don't the amp is completely silent. It's not a gain issue however since I have the gain set at about 5 or 6. I figured I could just use the low dynamic range and boost it with an OCD. So, I bought an OCD and while it sounds great when used on the amp set to pristine clean, it sounds rather horrid used as a boost to the amp in overdrive. Surely this can't be right, could this be a bad (preamp) tube problem?
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
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Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#2
for the Vintage Modern! They're fantastic amps.

Is there any volume loss? Have you tried changing out the preamp tubes? Turn over the to High Dynamic Range and crank it a bit see if the fizzyness goes away or decreases. If it does, it could be a preamp problem. But I'm not an expert on amps so I'm not 100%
#3
That avatar never fails to hypnotize me. Not even in a sexual way. It's just cool to watch.

That said, what exactly do you mean "fizzy"? Like a hum or....?
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#4
An OCD is an awful boost. That's why it sounds terrible that way. It's literally the exact opposite of what you want for that function. You want something with a heavy low cut, slightly cut highs and boosted mids. The OCD is slightly scooped with a lot of bass. It'll just turn your distortion into a muddy mess.

I'm confused as to what you mean by fizzy. Like hum? Or nasty sounding high end?
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#5
The fizz is indeed a nasty sounding high end. When I take out all of the treble it's gone. As for the OCD, are you saying I should buy a tubescreamer or something alike to boost while using my OCD as a distortion pedal?
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#6
Generally with tube amps, if you are getting any sort of 'unexpected' sounds or tones from it, you should investigate whether any tubes have gone bad. If my amp suddenly started sounding cack, i wouldn't just try to remedy the situation with a pedal - it's probably sounding bad for a reason; trying to turn a blind eye to it will only make it worse if there is a physical fault such as a bad tube.
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#7
Quote by jukejointjohnny
Generally with tube amps, if you are getting any sort of 'unexpected' sounds or tones from it, you should investigate whether any tubes have gone bad. If my amp suddenly started sounding cack, i wouldn't just try to remedy the situation with a pedal - it's probably sounding bad for a reason; trying to turn a blind eye to it will only make it worse if there is a physical fault such as a bad tube.

This. Plug your guitar straight in to the amp. If the problem is still there, change cable and change guitar. If the problems gone, it's obviously your guitar or cable. But if not, then it's your amp.
#8
Problem is there with any cable and any guitar.
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#9
I would suspect a bad preamp valve at this point. You need a known-good spare to swap out one-by-one with your preamp tubes to see if the problem is alleviated. It sounds like you're encountering some sort of blocking distortion, which is a fancy way of saying one of the tubes is freaking out at the amount of signal being fed into it. This doesn't mean the signal is suddenly larger than normal, it just means the valve has lost its ability to properly receive that signal.
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#10
Quote by ConfederateAxe
I would suspect a bad preamp valve at this point. You need a known-good spare to swap out one-by-one with your preamp tubes to see if the problem is alleviated. It sounds like you're encountering some sort of blocking distortion, which is a fancy way of saying one of the tubes is freaking out at the amount of signal being fed into it. This doesn't mean the signal is suddenly larger than normal, it just means the valve has lost its ability to properly receive that signal.


I see, I don't have any good preamp tubes though, but I guess buying a full new set of preamp tubes might solve the problem?
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#11
You dont even have to go that far. You can simply buy one good preamp tube, and systematically swap it out with each preamp tube in the amp until the problem goes away or until you have swapped it into all positions, in which case its not a preamp tube problem.
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#12
Quote by ConfederateAxe
You dont even have to go that far. You can simply buy one good preamp tube, and systematically swap it out with each preamp tube in the amp until the problem goes away or until you have swapped it into all positions, in which case its not a preamp tube problem.

This. Buy one really good preamp tube like a JJ.

However, it sounds to me like a set of JJ's is exactly what you need. Try experimenting with combinations of their ECC803 and ECC83S tubes. I have a feeling that a full set of ECC83S tubes will make you melt. I'd fully retube it with ECC83S and grab an extra ECC803 and experiment.

In the meantime, what ^ he said.
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#13
Quote by Cathbard
This. Buy one really good preamp tube like a JJ.

However, it sounds to me like a set of JJ's is exactly what you need. Try experimenting with combinations of their ECC803 and ECC83S tubes. I have a feeling that a full set of ECC83S tubes will make you melt. I'd fully retube it with ECC83S and grab an extra ECC803 and experiment.

In the meantime, what ^ he said.


Yeah I was thinking of going for a full retube of the preamp tubes. Couple questions though:

What's the difference between the High gain and Balanced versions of the ECC83s?
I guess I should just go for a Balanced setup for a Marshall?

Is the gold pin variant worth it or are the normal pinned ones just as good?

Should I get a dedicated V1 tube or is a normal one fine?

Do preamp tubes need to be matched? And what does matched mean anyway?
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#14
This is where it pays to have knowledgeable folks on your side. Otherwise you end up spending money you might not have wanted to spend.

You don't need a "balanced" tube, especially for the typical Marshall phase inverter, which has deliberately unbalanced output magnitudes anyway. It's pointless. Another gimmick for Eurotubes to ratchet up the price of a few tubes and sell them based on hype. The only instance where i could reasonably see a balanced valve being beneficial is in a parallel gain stage arrangement, which is neither here nor there, not a concern for you, as no Marshall i've ever seen had one. In fact the only two brands i've worked on that did were Rivera and Bad Cat.

The gold pin version is along the same lines. Snake oil, my friend.

Preamp tubes do not need to be matched. Matching is done for two or more power tubes that operate in a push-pull power section. Matching ensures that all valves involved in the output section have the relatively same transconductance. This ensures that one valve or valve pair does not pass more current than the other half under signal, hence affecting the efficiency of the power section and eventually wearing the tubes out faster.
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Last edited by ConfederateAxe at Apr 1, 2012,
#15
Yeah, one balanced tube for the phase inverter. Even there it's over-rated. Otherwise just grab bogg standard normal JJ ECC83S tubes. It matters not a snot in the rest of the amp.
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Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
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#16
Thanks for the helpful info guys. So what about the V1 tube, should I even bother buying that or is that what you meant by a balanced tube for the phase inverter?
I have zero experience in tube amp technology by the way.
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#17
No. the phase inverter is the last little tube. It's the one closest to the power tubes. It isn't even in the preamp, the phase inverter is actually part of the power amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#18
Quote by Cathbard
No. the phase inverter is the last little tube. It's the one closest to the power tubes. It isn't even in the preamp, the phase inverter is actually part of the power amp.


I see so do I still need a V1 tube for the first preamp stage?

So I would buy :

1x Ecc83s V1
2xEc883s
1x Ec883s balanced or just 3xec883s
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700
#19
Yeah, just ECC83S everywhere and if you like make one of them a balanced tube. I recommend getting one extra , an ECC803, just to experiment with and to have as a spare.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
Thanks for all the info, really appreciate it. Gonna pick some new tubes up in a week or so!
Marshall 50 Watt Vintage Modern
Marshall 1960AV
Fender Custom Shop Strat
Ibanez Prestige RG3120
Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster
Strymon Mobius
TC Polytune
TC Flashback
Mad Professor LGW
Fulltone OCD
JOYO Vintage OD
Behringer EQ700