#1
So my homework from my guitar teacher was the jazz standard; Days of Whine and Roses. I have a little less than 2 weeks (one week is easter hollydays, so i have alot of time).
My homework was to:
---Learn the melody in sheet music (very easy)
---Play the chords to the tune around 5th position (also very easy)
---Play the arpeggios to the song in constant 8th notes in the 5th position (a little challange with the altered chords, but i think i can mannage it)
---Improvise a solo over the song. Now this is the hardest part. My teacher wrote new scales i shuld use over almost each new chord on the 5th position. This includes all the modes of the major scale, altered scale, whole half, half whole, lydian dominant, melodic minor.

I know all major scale modes 100% of the neck, but i only know the altered scale in two positions, and im not so familliar with whole half and alt. dominant. I know all of the chords to the song, and i know how to play the minor 7th, dom7, and maj7 in all inversions. Im not so good with inversions when it comes to altered chords. I play mostly prog metal/fusion, and i started learning jazz about autumn 2011. But im only a beginner to intermediate guitarist(?).
Anyway, do you have any ides how to go on about learning the tune? What order to learn stuff, how i can make the improv musical etc... Is there any good guitar recordings of this tune on the net?
Last edited by Usernames sucks at Mar 31, 2012,
#2
Improvise off the melody, let the embellishments come out of the tune, rather than forcing them in.

Quote the melody in your solo, rather than just chord tones. You need to make it sound like your playing the actual tune, not just the changes.

Make sure you can play the melody in different octaves.
Last edited by mdc at Mar 31, 2012,
#3
Quote by mdc
Improvise off the melody, let the embellishments come out of the tune, rather than forcing them in.

Quote the melody in your solo, rather than just chord tones. You need to make it sound like your playing the actual tune, not just the changes.

Make sure you can play the melody in different octaves.

Well, seems like a good idea for making it musical, but a big part of my homework was to be familiar with theese scales.
#4
but running up and down scales just gets bland after awhile, you're right it is good to know scales and arpeggios and then to be able to use them, but when you're improving solos you want to be a bit more lyrical, chord tones really are a great place to start, also work on finding what we call guide tones, or notes that chords share, then dance your solo around those notes. If your teacher wants you to solely work on knowing the scales for the changes then that's fine, learn them all near 5th position like yiu said, and then do different kinds of patterns and permutations of them when you solo. A favorite one of mine is something I hear Miles do a lot, along with others, is to do the skip run when you skip a note and go back to the one you skipped then skip again etc.

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#7
Quote by Usernames sucks
Anyway, do you have any ides how to go on about learning the tune? What order to learn stuff, how i can make the improv musical etc... Is there any good guitar recordings of this tune on the net?


First I'd just break it down. Your teacher says you have to change scales over every chord, and I'll disagree with that. He's just trying to make you use CST. You mayn't be ready for it, or more to the point, it's not necessary.

You can instead:

1. Identify key/s.
2. Play scales associated with the keys.
3. Use accidentals to accommodate for clashes.

Hey...that's just like every other song in the world!
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#8
A wise jazz guitar teacher I had for a short while told me, on the subject of playing standards, "let the melody be your guide". He also insisted that the same mantra could and should be used for pretty much everything else relating to music.


Also, what Alan said is right. That and you should listen to many interpretations by different artists, particularly vocalists (if the tune has lyrics, I dont know it).
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#9
Quote by Hydra150
A wise jazz guitar teacher I had for a short while told me, on the subject of playing standards, "let the melody be your guide".

Quote by mdc
Improvise off the melody, let the embellishments come out of the tune, rather than forcing them in.

Quote the melody in your solo, rather than just chord tones. You need to make it sound like your playing the actual tune, not just the changes.

Make sure you can play the melody in different octaves.

#10
Quote by Usernames sucks
---Improvise a solo over the song. Now this is the hardest part. My teacher wrote new scales i shuld use over almost each new chord on the 5th position. This includes all the modes of the major scale, altered scale, whole half, half whole, lydian dominant, melodic minor.

To pick out the altered chord tones more easily, try using altered clusters to target the altered tones.
Eg Cb5b9
--------------------------12-14-18
------------------11-13-14
--------------9-11
-------8-10-11
----7-9
-8-9

You can adapt the cluster to fit any altered chord.
#11
+1 on the melody be your guide, in these old standard tunes the melody is almost always a chord tone usually the 3rd or the 7th.
I suggest that you listen to this tune constantly performed by you favorite artists.
I'm a jazz guitarist and what I do is to find the important gravity notes of the melody and try to target them at key points in the harmony. the altered scale is great for altered Dom7 chords but just be careful to resolve them.
#12
You need to learn that melody in every position...and be able to move between positions in the middle of the line. That will help you immensely when you're trying to improvise.

I would take the arpeggio thing and do it in every position.

Don't worry about CST, that's a waste of your time and is just a convoluted way to organize your lines. Think about key...think about what scale you can use over multiple chords...I'd only worry about other options over dominants.
#14
Quote by Usernames sucks
Sorry but what is CST? English is not my first language...


Chord Scale Theory, when you use a different scale for each chord.
#15
Quote by Usernames sucks
Sorry but what is CST? English is not my first language...

Chord scale. The idea that you need a "scale" for each chord...

For instance, Autumn Leaves...what key is that shit in, Bb? Anyway


| ------ Bb major/ G minor------|
| Cm7    | F7 | Bbmaj7 | Ebmaj7 |
| Am7b5  | D7 | Gm7    |  G7    |


The appropriate way, IMO, to think about this is...look at the overall key. Look at what scale is going to fit most if not all of the chords...only when you're forced outside of the tonal center do you need to start pegging a new "scale" per chord.

If you think about this entire section of chords being 'roughly' Bb/Gm...then you can organize your lines effectively without feeling like something is "changing" around you. Obviously building your lines out of the arpeggio shape of the chord within the bigger scale is cool...but if someone told you...

Now...what's going to happen if a teacher tells a student to think like this:


|C dorian|Fmixo.|Bb major|Eb lydian|
| Cm7    | F7   | Bbmaj7 | Ebmaj7  |

|A locrian|D alt.| G dorian| G alt. |
| Am7b5   | D7   | Gm7     |  G7    |


The student is 9/10 going to make stupid mistakes, lose focus of what really matters in the song, and attempt guitar acrobatics by flying around the fretboard to hit "C dorian" as soon as the Cm7 pops up again.

Think big picture. Only think a scale per chord when it matters...like over a dominant or when you're departing from a key center.
Last edited by chronowarp at Mar 31, 2012,
#16
I agree with chrono that your teacher may actually be going about it wrong or giving you unecessary work by automatically making you do this in terms of a scale-per-chord. The key signature is going to be your foundation, and it already spells out a major or minor scale. So you're simply going to play notes from the key and go to different areas of it to follow the changes. Only to the extent that the changes involve chromaticism are you going to need to step outside of the key, and even then, that doesn't mean introducing a new scale. It'll simply mean following some chord tones that are outside the key, and using chromatic decoration.
#17
Quote by mdc

I think I meant to +1 you after I noticed you said basically what I was about to ...
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do