#1
i want to expand my musical brain, start thinking of the guitar thru note relations rather than patterns.

i want to know what are the things i should know? iv read up on most everything musictheory.net has to offer. im going to be taking a year long theory class next semester, it will be my first "professional" music training. im in jazz band but thats easy, i know my chords and how to build them.

today and recently iv been working on scales and modes. shut up xiaoxi. memorizing the patters, knowing what the scale formulas are; ie the dorian has a m3rd and a m7th, compared to the major ionian scale.

i also like having these scales for exercises, going up and down each one, its a nice workout.

i know a bunch of random things from musictheory.net, but i dont have anything to apply it all to. i dont know what to do with this knowledge of inverting chords, and being able to name things. its also kinda hard to memorize it all. i understand it all, but remembering it is kinda tough. it would be helpful to be able to apply it, like in math class, learning the formula is one thing, but youre gonna forget it if you dont do your homework.

so a long story short, what should a guitarist learn music theory wise and how should he apply it? or she... i guess...
#2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advancing-Guitarist-Mick-Goodrick/dp/0881885894


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Also, if you want to commit a good amount of time to your craft, stop playing MMORPG's - they just steal your time.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Apr 1, 2012,
#3
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
im in jazz band but thats easy, i know my chords and how to build them.

What you really need to do is take your ego down a notch.

I highly doubt that you really "know your chords". If I put a standard chart in front of you, I highly doubt that you can comp as effectively as someone who really knows what he's doing.

It's not enough to see A-7 and immediately head for the 5th fret of the E string. It's about context: what is the function of this A-7? what are others doing in the ensemble? what voicing does it need? what extensions or substitutions can be used? what kind of rhythmic texture will be clear but not get in the way? Can you do all of this on the fly intuitively? No? Then you don't really know your chords.

The other problem is that you don't actually have an understanding of music theory. Knowing scattered tid bits about how to construct a chord or scale is like looking up random facts on Wikipedia about quantum physics. If you are genuinely interested, you have to start from the ground up with a commitment to stay on a logical developmental track. And yes, that starts with individual intervals. Otherwise, the more "tid bits" you know, the more it will hamper you. You've often heard the myth that knowing theory just jails your creativity. That's not a myth. You are well on your way if you continue your current mentality.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#4
I think you guys were a bit a tough him :/

I dont know what to tell him either though, you didnt give them much to go on in terms of advice i think.. But for what its worth I can understand how theory can get all jumbled up sometimes. You learn scales/modes/harmonizing etc etc, and then someone says I ii6 V, and im like wtf happend to all the letters i just learned. You can spend a few weeks memorizing every perfect 4th/5th and maj/min 3rd interval name from every possible root note, only to find its not very practical information to learn, and at best seems like a very tiny piece of the puzzle.


so a long story short, what should a guitarist learn music theory wise and how should he apply it? or she... i guess...


i think this is the main point you're asking, and the answer is basically everything you can - these are books I have along with various websites i use as a reference

Learn and Master Guitar - steve krenz

Ted Greene - modern chord progressions, and chord chemistry

and there are various websites and articles that ive used to figure things out

you should look into those, or at least the ted greene ones which i think are priceless, advanced and kind of messy to read but very good practical knowledge.

finally, before you do anything though you should make sure you clearly know how the roman numeral numbering system works, the major/minor key signatures, a clear understanding of interval naming, and a clear understanding of the different chord formulas.

If you dont know at least those things, trying to learn more theory is like trying to learn algebra without knowing all of the numbers or what the +/-/= signs mean
#5
so a long story short, what should a guitarist learn music theory wise and how should he apply it?

if your serious..

scales & arpeggios..in all keys..in all positions..

chords & inversions (triads & 4-note) in all keys..in all positions

Standards: learn at least 20 in all keys..in all positions..using the chords, inversions and scales you are also learning.

this will be a long term study..(years..yes really) to get under your fingers for it to be "natural" feeling

on top of this basic work: harmony-all aspects..traditional classical..jazz..symmetrical..other concepts..

melody: moving voices..contrary motion..interval studies and concepts (joe diorio..howard roberts-excellent studies) learn as much as you can this topic

yes its alot of work..but with determination..you can do it..

play well

wolf
#6
Xiaoxi, so you are a follower of studing theory or not? You are writting that one's should learn theory wisely to know context and what is going on etc. and then jump with "theory jails your creativity - that's not a myth". So, I'm a liitle confused.
#8
Quote by Xiaoxi
What you really need to do is take your ego down a notch.

I highly doubt that you really "know your chords". If I put a standard chart in front of you, I highly doubt that you can comp as effectively as someone who really knows what he's doing.

It's not enough to see A-7 and immediately head for the 5th fret of the E string. It's about context: what is the function of this A-7? what are others doing in the ensemble? what voicing does it need? what extensions or substitutions can be used? what kind of rhythmic texture will be clear but not get in the way? Can you do all of this on the fly intuitively? No? Then you don't really know your chords.

The other problem is that you don't actually have an understanding of music theory. Knowing scattered tid bits about how to construct a chord or scale is like looking up random facts on Wikipedia about quantum physics. If you are genuinely interested, you have to start from the ground up with a commitment to stay on a logical developmental track. And yes, that starts with individual intervals. Otherwise, the more "tid bits" you know, the more it will hamper you. You've often heard the myth that knowing theory just jails your creativity. That's not a myth. You are well on your way if you continue your current mentality.

youre correct, i wouldnt be as efficient as mimi fox at seeing a chord, and processing it a million different ways and knowing everything about it. but i wasnt trying to be arrogant. you just hate me lol. im not an expert guitarist, im looking for some extra info to shoot me in a better direction. links to online websites to learn stuff would be great.

im not great at hearing. this is a huge part in almost all music. any tips or growing my musical ear? i wouldnt be able to hear the ensemble and tell you what they are playing. i can hardly sight read sheet music, i can read it but definitely not sight read.
i just know all my basic jazz chords i may say. im pretty good at sight reading my jazz chords, i hardly stumble upon chords anymore.

im pretty good at voicings, im getting a nice understanding of knowing how my chord will sound before i play it. im decent at rhythm. im not great at understanding why adding the #9 works, theory wise. if im in the key of Cmajor, and i play a C7#9, i dont understand how that works. why the #9?

i dont know my music theory, hence the thread asking for direction breh. iv gone thru musictheory.net and i understand most of it, up till where it talkes about neopolitan 6's. all i know about neopolitan 6's is that the Bb first inversion chord in moonlight sonata is a neo6.

so i know you have a great understanding of theory, rather than being a mr grumpy wumpipants, what should i learn?
#9
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
youre correct, i wouldnt be as efficient as mimi fox at seeing a chord, and processing it a million different ways and knowing everything about it. but i wasnt trying to be arrogant. you just hate me lol. im not an expert guitarist, im looking for some extra info to shoot me in a better direction. links to online websites to learn stuff would be great.

im not great at hearing. this is a huge part in almost all music. any tips or growing my musical ear? i wouldnt be able to hear the ensemble and tell you what they are playing. i can hardly sight read sheet music, i can read it but definitely not sight read.
i just know all my basic jazz chords i may say. im pretty good at sight reading my jazz chords, i hardly stumble upon chords anymore.

im pretty good at voicings, im getting a nice understanding of knowing how my chord will sound before i play it. im decent at rhythm. im not great at understanding why adding the #9 works, theory wise. if im in the key of Cmajor, and i play a C7#9, i dont understand how that works. why the #9?

i dont know my music theory, hence the thread asking for direction breh. iv gone thru musictheory.net and i understand most of it, up till where it talkes about neopolitan 6's. all i know about neopolitan 6's is that the Bb first inversion chord in moonlight sonata is a neo6.

so i know you have a great understanding of theory, rather than being a mr grumpy wumpipants, what should i learn?


start with sight reading, use the exercises on musictheory.net, they will help you in terms of what note is where on the fretboard and on the musical staff, they also help in recognizing chords.

once your done and can get at least 95 out of 100 every time you can work on your ears, they have interval trainers for both sight reading and for hearing, also you can train your ear for each type of scale and each type of chord.

as of right now neopolitan chords dont really matter if you don't understand all the other things 100%. can you explain the function of the V or the vii° or the IV? if not then don't worry about neopolitan chords.....
Quote by Dirk Gently
Some pieces are only meant to be played by people with six fingers on their fretting hand. Sorry.
#10
A lot of people claim that singing is a great way to master your ear. Of course, proper exercises of singing, not just howling at the moon.