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#1
This is all basic, but we all start somewhere. Please remimber this people before we go on.

Now:

I'm learning Stevie Ray Vaughan's Scuttle Buttin.

Using the GP tab on the site:
http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/s/stevie_ray_vaughan/scuttle_buttin_guitar_pro.htm

I'm going over that first line and trying to figure out the chords under the lead.

(I am well aware that GP can show me the note names but I prefer to try and learn this kinda thing without that kind of help)

First thing I did was write out by hand the note names attached to the pitches notated.

^ = Bend up
> = Release
p = Pull off

A^B B E B D^E>D E DpB BbpA G E

Ok, if I did that part correctly, then the next part is figuring out what chords/scales underlie this bit.

Seems to be with the exception of the Bb It's in a derivative scale of C... One of the modes of C major... that Bb looks like Stevie used a blue note in passing. The scale seems to be the mode of C that starts with A, as that's the note it starts the piece off with there. This means it's A minor that we are talking about here (right?).

So with that in mind:

A B and E seems to be the first notes. A and E are tones of A major, but that B seems to be double flat from the 3rd of a major, which means that note is not part either forms of a A major or A minor... There are the two other triads dim and aug, but those don't fit either do they?

So, if it is a tonality of A... where does this B fit in? And how so?

And we could go onto D E D E and the DBBbAGE run, but I can't even get this first part atm.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Mar 31, 2012,
#2
The chord progression determines the key of a song, and with the key, it will explain the functions of the notes.

So basically you're doing it backwards. Figure out the chords first, and the rest will follow from there. Additionally this is a blues song, and there is no deviation from a standard blues progression.

You tell me, what is the chord progression of the song. There's only 3 chords, and it's the most common chord progression in the world.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#3
+1 to what Alan said, you're trying to over analyse something really simple. Look at the bassline if the guitar part is too distracting.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#4
Well there are no chords to look at, only note to note melody.

So I couldn't begin with the chords first .

Secondly, I wouldn't know the most common chord progression in the world... I'm not that advanced yet .

What's with the seeming air of arrogance AlanHB? I told ya up front that I am not good with the first two lines of the Original Post.

Secondly there is no bass-line yet.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Mar 31, 2012,
#5
Quote by Outside Octaves
Well there are no chords to look at, only note to note melody.

So I couldn't begin with the chords first .

Secondly, I wouldn't know the most common chord progression in the world... I'm not that advanced yet .

What's with the seeming air of arrogance AlanHB? I told ya up front that I am not good with the first two lines of the Original Post.



There are chords, the guitar part plays licks over them. (And at the end of each phrase/lick he actually plays the chords - I think SRV tends to use E7#9 chords, you should just think of these as E7 or E chords to keep it simple.)

Its a 12 bar blues, in E (the same as the one in your profile MP3s only a bit faster). Run a google/youtube search for "12 bar blues lesson".

There is a bass line, but it may not be included in your GuitarPro tab.

Btw, when playing live SRV uses slides rather than bends, I find it much easier to play this one that way too.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#6
Oi... Yes there's a bass-line in the tab, but not at this point in the piece.

12 bar blues has a million and 1 ways of playing, so how was i to tell? And there is no guitar playing the chords... (a rhythm guitar).... strictly lead in the whole thing, lead guitar, bass guitar, and drums and vocals.

Yes, he plays chords latter after this bit. And yes I know he's "playing over chords" but like i said there are none actually present in this bar of the tab... Now upon looking over this bar, I'm trying to figure out what chords lay under what he is playing. A hard task for someone as lowly as myself . This is my first real attempt at trying to figure out a song bit by bit instead of just learning to play the licks. How was I supposed to be able to tell 12 bar blues from 1 bar?

I know what a 9th is (lol my name belies this kinda knowledge... even if I'm not fully informed on the subject)... it's just a 2nd (minor or major) one octave up from the tonic/root)... my theoretical knowledge is fractured at best, but still...

Anyways, I came for help and I got attitude? How typical these days.

Thank you for setting up that i's a 12 bvar blues in E... i will look further into this... but what has me confused now is how it's in E when it doesn't have D# but a D, G instead of G#....

Unless you meant E minor?

Then it would include E F# G A B C D...

Which would make more sense.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#7
I don't mean to come off as arrogant, but the song is very basic.

As a clue, use of flat 7 and flat 3 accidentals in a major key are the foundations of the blues "sound". Hydra also said something along the lines of "12 bar blues in E".
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#8
Quote by Outside Octaves

Now upon looking over this bar, I'm trying to figure out what chords lay under what he is playing.


E7.

How was I supposed to be able to tell 12 bar blues from 1 bar?


By listening to the song? By looking ahead even a little bit?

Thank you for setting up that i's a 12 bvar blues in E... i will look further into this... but what has me confused now is how it's in E when it doesn't have D# but a D, G instead of G#....

Unless you meant E minor?

Then it would include E F# G A B C D...


Nope. Its in E, dont think E minor scale, dont think E major scale, think E7. Thats the thing about blues music, its usually based off a seventh chord (hence the Ds instead of D#s), and playing a minor 3rd (G) over a chord with a major third (G#) simply sounds cool/bluesy (hence the #9 chord). Usually all three chords in the progression will be 7th chords, like in this song. Blues has a lot of chromaticism, and thats why your analysis is the wrong way to learn this song - you need to zoom out a bit and look at the bigger picture.

If I were to solo over this song I would use a combination of the E blues scale (E G A Bb B D), the E major pentatonic scale (E F# G# B C#), and if you look at the solos you'll see SRV using all those notes and probably more as passing tones.

Which would make more sense.


Protip: It doesnt have to make sense, it just has to sound good.


Quote by Outside Octaves

Anyways, I came for help and I got attitude? How typical these days.


No, you got answers - answers which told you that you were going about it the wrong way and were getting ahead of yourself. I come here to offer help and I get attitude? How typical these days.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#9
Just my 2 cents, Ive always suspectedthat he uses hybrid picking to get that speed and uses slides instead of bends. I've seen tabs on it a couple times before and I think they are way off. That said Ive never bothered to look at what he did live and I've always played it having determined the lick by ear, with a combination of slide and hybrid picking to get that clean speed and punchy attack.

Best,

Sean
#10
Quote by Outside Octaves
Oi... Yes there's a bass-line in the tab, but not at this point in the piece.


That first bar of the piece is just a typical texas blues lick entirely from the blues scale. The same lick is repeated over every chord in the twelve bar blues, every two bars (with only the chords that come before it changing).

You should treat the first bar (or second in the GP file as a bar is left blank) as an intro, the 12 bar blues structure actually starts on the bar after it (bar 3 in the GP file) with those E chords - The song starts where the bassline starts, the bar before the bssline is just an intro that you could ignore atm if it helps you think about it.

Its a really simple tune.

Quote by Sean0913
Ive always suspectedthat he uses hybrid picking to get that speed and uses slides instead of bends. I've seen tabs on it a couple times before and I think they are way off.



Yep, he slides but I dont think he hybrid picks.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#11
Ok, it's a "basic/simple" song here, ok;.... but what if it wasn't? What if he were at some point switching between keys and crap? DT does it a LOT from what I hear lol... So looking a head even a little in music can lead you to a false conclusion. Thus why I didn't and generally don't/won't look ahead.

BTW, Zooming out and looking at the big picture here...


All I see is a bunch of notes and a few "half-breed" chords (A little term of endearment towards chords that are broken up over a measure and missing parts hehe. Lovely sounds though).

That's why I zoomed in on bar 1 and started from there. I figured that it would be simpler to start with a small group of notes, and try to go from there. But you guys are telling me I have to not start with a small group of notes but go through several bars and look at every note used and try to figure out from that the key and underlying chords? Massive undertaking for a noobling such as myself. It would be simpler if chords were provided via a rhythm guitar but he doesn't utilize that in this... at least in not the aforementioned method. Anyways...

So, I was wrong. Ok. E7...(looks that up real quick)... So that's major 3rd and minor 7th to make a dom. 7th... ok...(with the tonic and 5th hehe)... um ok...

Lord this is turning out to be more advanced than I wanted it to be. Thought blues was basic, but here I find out it isn't in the least..... No truly good music is lol. I'm doomed.


So he starts out with a dominate chord? WTF? Though you start off with your tonic chord first? if that's the tonic, then I'm royally screwed and probably need to start off somewhere else.... if it isn't, then oi.oi.oi.oooiiiiiiiiii!!!

Now I'm more confusticated, fluckered, and again, soooooooooooo confused.
And where to start if this isn't it? (as in this is too advanced to try and start learning blues from?)
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Mar 31, 2012,
#12
E is the tonic chord, and it is a seventh chord. I wouldnt call it the 'dominant' chord as that would imply that the key was actually A major, but I have heard people refer to a song as being in 'E dominant' - I wouldnt call it that, I'd just say its a blues in E.


Edit: Even if it was a complicated tune you would still have to look at the bigger picture to know what is going on. For example in a jazz tune which modulates every few bars you would need to scan the chords and note the changes to see where and what the key changes are. If you were to look at it a bar at a time it would lose all meaning.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#13
Ok... then it's in E... not Edom7 (which was implied by E7).... oi, ok... So it's in E not major or minor... wait... somehow missed a few posts in all of this...


So that's just an intro, ok... wow.... oi... still advanced, let's see if I can figure this out from bar 3 onwards with the stuff you've mentioned so far.

I'm not trying to be stubborn or difficult, just I really want to learn this piece as a good intro to blues, but maybe I'm starting with the wrong piece? It's a REALLY solid sound and fun to listen to hehe... thus I thought it'd be fun to learn. While speedy it doesn't have a hard to learn sound to it, you know? Not like say... Steve Vai's freak show excess (based off of Bulgarian wedding music!)

So um, what should I do here? Continue on, or start afresh somewhere else in the kingdom of blues, if even in blues?\

For now I'll take a look at that music again...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#14
Its up to you - its a cool tune but after the first 24 bars its basically all improvised, and the tempo is really high.

I think what you should do is put the guitar down,get a piece of paper and draw/write out the 12 bar blues - | E | E | E | E | A | A | E | E ... etc. Then press play on GuitarPro and follow the chords on the paper with your finger, concentrating on the changes throughout all the solos. The tempo is quite high so try not get lost. Btw the last chord in the 12 bars (usually a B) is not clearly played in this song as the bassist does not play for that bar, so dont let that trip you up.

After you have played through it a few times following it with your finger you should pick up your guitar, start the song and play one chord for each bar - while SRV is shredding you will be playing the simplest rhythm guitar part possible, just strumming an E major or E7 chord once over each bar of E, and an A and B chord over the appropriate bars.
It wont sound cool but it will get you used to the structure of a blues.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#15
Damn... Maybe I'm not ready for this yet. Guess I need to find more of a foundation to stand on before trying to learn any more music... damnit. All I want to do is dive in and get going, but every time I think I've gotten to a stable enough foundation, BLAM! I'm hit with the same thing... a big read NO! YOU ARE NOT READY! right in front of me. If that's standard/typical texas blues, than I'm not ready in the least... as I thought u start with a microcosm and grow from there, but I guess I just had my glass shelter shattered again... off to build another "wall" lol (Please don't knock my wall down next time PINK (read Smart People)!)

Edit:

Yea, screw this. Damn and it sounds fun.

Oh well, off to a slow tempoed, and much easier piece.... though I wouldn't have a clue where to go...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Last edited by Outside Octaves at Mar 31, 2012,
#16
Dude its blues - blues is simple music - easy to play (difficult to play well). Do not be put off by the fragments of theory you have learned, **** that shit and learn some songs. Its all basically just a I IV V progression (the most common in the world), it just happens that it sounds good to play them all as 7th chords.

Do you think SRV, Albert King, BB King or most other big names in blues know advanced music theory? No, but they know how to make music. Dont let theory stand in the way of music, that just shows that youre going about it the wrong way - learn some music, then later on you might learn some music theory that explains why what you learned sounds good.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#17
(mmm 21 guns sounds so good to my soul atm, LMAO)

But as far as this goes, yes I know what you speak of there hydra. They didn't know advanced music theory of coarse. I don't even see how it's basic I IV V here? I mean I see a broken up E chord with that 7th, (no 3rd).... but that's really all I see besides that one that changes the E G D to E Gb D... that is until bar 11.

edit:

Where's the A chord or the B chord? In that typical Texas Blues lick part? If so, uh...?


Man... to bring in a gaming referece:

I need an in depth walk-through here. Oi.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Last edited by Outside Octaves at Mar 31, 2012,
#18
Do what I told you in this post.

It is a 12 bar blues in E, which is a I IV V progression, the A is the IV and the B is the V.

Each letter/chord here represents a bar (four beats) of music; E E E E A A E E B A E B

Quote by Outside Octaves
Where's the A chord or the B chord? In that typical Texas Blues lick part? If so, uh...?


The first change doesnt come till bar 5, when it switches to the A (IV), so stop looking for underlying chords in the first bar. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the Roman numerals, I dont want to confuse you further, just focus on these chords, one for each bar; E E E E A A E E B A E B.

Do it.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#19
Ok, if that's E for four bars excluding the intro then um... crap.... wait u say E or E7 which means what chord am I playing here? E major, E minor? + that 7th? um crap.... for now I'mma try E major 7th as that's the chord u imply with E E E E...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Mar 31, 2012,
#20
The chord you are playing would be either E major or E7, the A would be A major or A7, the B would be B major or B7. Just ignore the first bar, its an intro, the 12 bar structure starts when the bassist starts.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#21
ok... so E7 which is read E Dominant 7th right? as named in the link you gave here... ok, so E7 here we go...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#22
E7 is sometimes called E dominant 7th, sometimes called E dominant - E7 is the simplest and best name I think.







If you dont like these fingerings then run a search here to find alternatives.


You might want to watch this guy explain it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIrvO_4ilZQ&feature=related
You'll notice that he changes to the A on the second bar then goes back to the E in the third bar - this is a common variation of the 12 bar blues and the rest of it is the same.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Mar 31, 2012,
#23
LOl, thanks there, but I did get it from the link u sent and from guitar pro hehe.. thanks though.


Ok, watching video.


This would be the billionth time I've gone over I IV V , it's just getting application and lead with the ideas of E E E E A A E E E B A E or whatever hehe.... I mean writing or transcribing anything over a chord is something I haven't figured out yet, was hoping to figure it out by going over a favorite song to listen to. Heh.... I mean I had no idea it was 1 4 5 but was just wanting to start somewhere heh. Well... now off to the video, maybe he gets into something outside of the basic structure of using the 1 4 5 chords heh.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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DO NOT CLICK HERE!
#24
Quote by Outside Octaves
maybe he gets into something outside of the basic structure of using the 1 4 5 chords heh.


He doesnt, I was just using that to demonstrate the simplicity of it - there are a million videos of guys playing or explaining different blues rhythms that are simply fancier, more interesting versions of what that guy explains - scuttly buttin being a very flashy version. This is another more interesting take on the 12 bar blues in E, and this video demonstrates probably the most common way it is played.


edit: I just found this video and it seems that this guy explains this really well, starting off simple yet pretty comprehensive, and he uses chord charts on screen so I'd give this one a look. Looks better to learn from than those other vids.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Apr 1, 2012,
#25
From one person who is new to transcription to another, let me give you some GOOD advice in this category. There is alot of anectodotal advice, about do this, or do that - people tell you to learn intervals, but dont tell you how, and you will waste MONTHS of time - learning how to sing the openings of stupid songs - you might make useful some of that time, and tab out some of those dumb songs, but this another story all together.

So, im going to give you some advice(or rather direction) that was given to me by this HotspurJR character :P

download "functional ear trainer" and read a few of the articles on that miles.be site, there is also another site, its a piano site, its called key-notes or something, and there is some good explanations in there also.

I dont know if you need this advice or not, but because its a transcription thread, i thought i would shove in that direction before someone says learn intervals - then you google it, think its neat how quickly you can determine when 2 random notes sounds like a song you're familiar with - and end up right where you started when the all that learning you have done is useless now because when a 4th is played from the 2nd scale note, its practically impossible for your brain to process that its a 4th using Here Comes The Bride. I have to basically redo 2 months of work, because nobody told me what a useless trick it is to be able to sing any interval up or down from a tonic note, maybe itsnot entirely useless, but learning all this within the context of a key, is clearly the best to way to learn if you like "tonal" music lol..

good luck with your studies.
Last edited by blunderwonder at Apr 1, 2012,
#26
^ He's actually using a tab, not transcribing.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#27
Quote by Outside Octaves
This would be the billionth time I've gone over I IV V

....

I mean I had no idea it was 1 4 5 but was just wanting to start somewhere heh.


I think you'll have to familiarise yourself with it a bit more. Maybe 2 billion will get you there, to the point where you can at least recognise it.

I also have a suspicion that you haven't learnt many full songs, or play chords all that often. I'm saying this because you would have encountered a I IV V in E at some point if you had. These would be good things to work on more.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#28
Back on the topic of Scuttle Buttin, Ill clarify the exact chords/fingerings used in that tab, hopefully you will recognise them in the tab and see the changes -

E7#9



This E chord is played as a 7#9 chord, which is known as the 'hendrix' (ans SRV is a massive hendrix fan. In the tab only the low E string and high E and B (and G if you want) strings are played so you can simplify the fingering - I would always mute the A string in this fingering anyway and use my first finger on the D string.

A7



This is a very common fingering for A7, often played with a barre over the 2nd fret. In your scuttle buttin tab the D sting is not played.

B7#9



This is another 7#9 chord, and is probably the most common fingering associated with the 'hendrix' chord.


Quote by AlanHB

I also have a suspicion that you haven't learnt many full songs, or play chords all that often. I'm saying this because you would have encountered a I IV V in E at some point if you had. These would be good things to work on more.

+1
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Apr 1, 2012,
#29
Quote by AlanHB
I think you'll have to familiarise yourself with it a bit more. Maybe 2 billion will get you there, to the point where you can at least recognise it.

I also have a suspicion that you haven't learnt many full songs, or play chords all that often. I'm saying this because you would have encountered a I IV V in E at some point if you had. These would be good things to work on more.



We have a dead ringer here folks!


But didn't I say something to the effect of this on the beginning of this thread?

"This is all basic, but we all have to start somewhere"... thought I said it all right there, but apparently I made a fool of myself and didn't explain that enough.

So here goes:


I am not a "complete beginner" in that I know some chords and the 1 4 5 progression, but I have a fractured knowledge of music theory. I also only know a few extreamly simple licks (come as you are's main lick, crazy train's main lick, manson's sweet dreams lick, and AC/DC's back in black main riff). I do not know any songs in full (though at one point I could play manson's sweet dreams all the way through, but didn't understand what I was playing lol and have since lost that knowledge).

I wanted to start here with scuttle buttin' as it's a favorite blues piece, and blues is said to be a great starting point for learning music and getting what one learns in "the basics" type coarses under your fingers and not just in the brain. So, I chose scuttle buttin'... and started to try and figure out the song's chords and such, but failed and came here looking for help.

It didn't help that the first post answered a question with a question, but after a few posts I got some answers and figured out that I may be in WAY over my head with trying this song as a first piece to learn in whole... even if it is blues and "eazy" because of that. (This thing doesn't appear that way to me any more. This piece seems more advanced than my capabilities atm). I thank you Hyd. for your help so far, and the others to.


But now it seems I need to work on my foundation more. Get some chords under me again, and work on the boring as hell part that I've avoided for too long and just dive head long into it... The boring part here being learning progressions and what not... Me What I love is to get a song and start there... but that's not learning a song, that's just learning how to play it, not actually learning it via what chords are under the lead, etc....

I do apologize for "wasting" your time here.

Well, hmmm... now what?

I'd go for that seceret guitarist site, but it's pay for... as are most sites.... this site has TONS of free articles and lessons but it's all a jumble... wonder if there's a free site that's just like secret guitar teacher's site? I bet not. Greed is a powerful motivator.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Last edited by Outside Octaves at Apr 1, 2012,
#30
Quote by Outside Octaves

I'd go for that seceret guitarist site, but it's pay for... as are most sites.... this site has TONS of free articles and lessons but it's all a jumble... wonder if there's a free site that's just like secret guitar teacher's site? I bet not. Greed is a powerful motivator.


Yeah the lessons here are rather a jumble, the user ZeGuitarists created a really good series of articles which cover a lot of everything to do with guitar in a structured way, heres the link. Good articles to work through.

And I wouldn't call it greed, its wanting to get paid for a service that some people will find valuable.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Apr 1, 2012,
#31
Exactly... but I still call that greed. Wanting money for anything is greed in my opinion. Thus why everyone is greedy heh. (my opin)

(though the exceptionally greedy are those with a likeness to OPEC little guys like SGT and his site, he wants payment to pay for bandwidth for the most part I suspect... but over 100 bux for a yearly subscription still seems a bit steep even for the costs of a server and what not... meh)
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#32
I may be in WAY over my head with trying this song as a first piece to learn in whole... even if it is blues and "eazy" because of that. (This thing doesn't appear that way to me any more. This piece seems more advanced than my capabilities atm).


It may be too difficult a piece for you technique wise - your fingers may not be fast enough, and that only comes with practice - but It is definately not too difficult a piece theoretically. As Alan and I have stated many times this is not a complex song, it is simple and you were just trying to over analyse rather than looking at it as a song.

If you really want to learn it then dont give up, take it slow (half speed in guitar pro) and dont over analyse, just learn to play it.


Quote by Outside Octaves

But now it seems I need to work on my foundation more. Get some chords under me again, and work on the boring as hell part that I've avoided for too long and just dive head long into it...

Well, hmmm... now what?


Now what you should do is go to JustinGuitar.Com and work your way through the beginners course. It's a great site and it's free. I assumed you were more advanced than you actually are, I should have suggested you go here sooner.


And regarding paying for lessons - I used to pay a guy £25 a week for lessons, that would have been £100 quid a month, but I did get a lot from him.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Apr 1, 2012,
#33
Quote by Outside Octaves
But didn't I say something to the effect of this on the beginning of this thread?

"This is all basic, but we all have to start somewhere"... thought I said it all right there, but apparently I made a fool of myself and didn't explain that enough.


As far as analysing a song goes, it can't get any easier, despite you saying you're "in over your head". Really the only easier thing you could analyse would be a one-chord chord-progression.

I know you say you're not a "complete beginner", perhaps to look good, but you can't play any full songs, and can't play any chords. This puts you at beginner level as far as I'm concerned.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#34
I never said I can't play any chords . Major and minor for C A G E D F B, their sharps and flats from open position and working lately on barred variations... such as Bmajor/minor from the A major/minor open chord ... though my ability to switch is slow I know and can form them all. I will someday soon get onto aug and dim. triads. I hope to also get to the 7th chords in all their forms too. Though those are less nessisary in the beginning... they are however (as I just learned) essential to blues so I gotta learn em sooner rather latter, but meh.


Yes I'm a beginner, but not an ubber noob going "what's a chord?".

I do however know the theory behind stuff like augmented triads... keys, etc.

Where I fell off is in application of the basics and how to go from there... and of course never figured out how to lead over chords in any interesting way, or any way at all really.


So no, I'm not a complete beginner. Nor am I an intermediate either. I am somewhere inbetween. A spec of dust in the wind atm. Been trying for a while to figure out how to take a progression and make something of it... on my own.

Then I get the idea to try and learn this stuff through a song I like, and found it too difficult to go past where I was... which was wrong anyways... so I came here... and found you Alan... trying to bring me down (ala clapton's I shot the sheriff ... plant a seed man and let it grow )) And it can get easier btw. That piece takes 2 types of guitar playing and makes them into 1... in my book that puts it in a more advanced area than where I am at. I see that now, my mistake. Beginner's blues is 12 bar with straight full chords or power chords... not this mix of lead and rythm. .... Anyways, I grow tired of arguing semantics. Though... Just a word of advice, you are coming over as arrogant and narcissistic. I'd work on moving away from such attributes if I were you. I myself never sell myself too tall. I suck. I know this. And do not ever fail in letting people know this atm. When I improve, I let people know, but I don't go around thinking I'm all that like you seem to come over Alan. With words like

"You tell me, what is the chord progression of the song. There's only 3 chords, and it's the most common chord progression in the world."

With this you assume I was advanced enough to know such a thing when I proved before this (through my misguided efforts) that I wasn't... I even said I'm in the beginning stages (though not a complete noob) of musical development by saying that we must all start somewhere.

You also assume too much. Read a bit more into what people say before you jump in like that, please.

Though, I must admit with such words I'm noticing myself going way, way, way too overboard and becoming narcissistic myself... so I will end it there.


Thank you Hydra, again.

Definitely looking forward to those lessons and sites you showed me. I will be going over them when I get up tomorrow. You have been most kind.

-Cheers
OutsideOctaves
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Apr 1, 2012,
#35
Wow O O, When we talked over a year and a half ago, I know you were interested in learning, but that you couldn't afford lessons, and at the time you made the statement that you don't mind if it takes a long time. Well based upon what I am seeing, it's a good thing that you hold that attitude, because you have hardly moved from where I saw you at a year and a half ago. Not that I'm saying that's bad - it's not if its something you like and enjoy and are content with.

The thing about being self taught, is you're the teacher and the student at the same time, and most of the time you're either going to be wrong or incomplete.

Alan is right, the progression is basic. The first problem with this, is as Teacher you chose a song that's probably out of your league. You appear to have a scrambled non linear approach to learning, piece here, piece there, it's more like music trivia than theory. It appears that you surmise that because you understand some abstracts that you're learning, but speaking honestly, and I have to admit, that I'm somewhat disappointed for your sake, you really haven't come far at all. Your self taught approach is misleading, by my perspective, because you haven't really moved, it appears to me based upon what you've written in this topic, that you've surrounded/comforted yourself with musical "illusions" and somehow convinced yourself that you've made a few steps, when in fact, it appears that you are as you say, a speck of dust in the wind, no foundation is in place, and still carried about by the breeze.

Can't help but feel bad for your sake, even though you're probably perfectly fine with it. As you said, "Greed is a powerful motivator" and in your case, what you've saved in money you've paid for in ignorance and delusionment, that you've somehow gained or are getting anywhere. Just because you're moving, doesn't mean that the direction is forward. It's like you've swam upcurrent for the last year and a half, and stayed at the same place. That will just make your arms tired, but in your case, you haven't had to pay for that boat ride, and you haven't drowned.

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Apr 1, 2012,
#36
If you must take my words as narcassistic TS, so be it. I'm not going to sugarcoat my advice, it's not my style. When I said those words you quote, "the most common chord progression in tye world", it was a hint, assuming you knew what it was. Obviously it didn't work though and you proceeded to take offence, rather than consider what the chord prohgession could be.

So with all this whinging, you're not learning anything. So you can choose to follow advice or not.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#37
Yea... Your right Sean {there was a joke here, but I removed it as it seemed completely out of rank and file...}

Yes, Um. I knew it was advice, but dang man... You answered a question with a question. Not a great way to do things.

Anyways, yes, I've swam up river. I'd love to pay but I don't have the coin in my pockets to hitch a ride.... I'm barely affording groceries atm. I sincerely want to learn. That's why I'm going on with practice tonight again with the suggested sites. Right now, while 12 bare blues is basic it is still beyond certain aspects of my mental abilities... I mean I know it and am working on it , but getting it to sound as good as that secretguitarteacher guy is beyond me atm... I can do it just as he did it in that video but it sounds like crap from my end. No dead strings, great amp, nice enough guitar.... just something I'm not finding atm. Then there's the fact that that song I chose is definitively WAY beyond my abilities as far as the licks go. WAY WAY WAY beyond my abilities, even if the chords behind it aren't.

What I need to do is find a texas blues song like Scuttle Buttin' that isn't near as fast, but just as fun to listen to and hopefully fun to learn.

Off to that UGG article and justin's site.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Apr 2, 2012,
#38
Well, I got myself through stage one up to the songs and beyond to the practice stuff...

Working on those chords for the gambler, which seem to actually be D# G# and A# unlike what he sais... I suspect that he's just simplifying for now heh.

doing those as barre chords is kinda difficult atm but I'm-a gonn'a work on that. (that A# to D# change is a bit squirrelly!) Off to practice.

EDIT:

I'm also up to the intermediate part of the UGG, though I want to go back tomarrow night and go over some previous chapters that have some stuff that I seem to be lacking... the ability to solo apparently comes before harmonizing scales, progressions, etc... which to me sounds crazy!... I mean how can one solo over a progression without knowing what that progression is? I need to look at that indeed! lol.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Apr 2, 2012,
#39
Quote by Outside Octaves
Yea... Your right Sean {there was a joke here, but I removed it as it seemed completely out of rank and file...}

Yes, Um. I knew it was advice, but dang man... You answered a question with a question. Not a great way to do things.

Anyways, yes, I've swam up river. I'd love to pay but I don't have the coin in my pockets to hitch a ride.... I'm barely affording groceries atm. I sincerely want to learn. That's why I'm going on with practice tonight again with the suggested sites. Right now, while 12 bare blues is basic it is still beyond certain aspects of my mental abilities... I mean I know it and am working on it , but getting it to sound as good as that secretguitarteacher guy is beyond me atm... I can do it just as he did it in that video but it sounds like crap from my end. No dead strings, great amp, nice enough guitar.... just something I'm not finding atm. Then there's the fact that that song I chose is definitively WAY beyond my abilities as far as the licks go. WAY WAY WAY beyond my abilities, even if the chords behind it aren't.

What I need to do is find a texas blues song like Scuttle Buttin' that isn't near as fast, but just as fun to listen to and hopefully fun to learn.

Off to that UGG article and justin's site.


I don't know what the secretguitarteacher thing is. And yes I recall your situation concerning money, but really? You couldn't scrape together 30.00 in a year an a half?

It's not about what you HAVE, it's about what you can save.

That said, try a song like Hideaway, by Freddie King if you want a fun blues song.

Best,

Sean
#40
30 bux only buys 1 lesson though... I mean it can help, but how much can 1 lesson do? You know? I want it man, trust me, I do. But I also have so many other things going on it's hard to save 2 pennies atm. I mean for the past few weeks I broke even, and before that I was about to dive bomb before taxes showed up and saved my butt... This week I will have a check coming with 1 day less than normal, so it's going to hurt, and next week will be the same. See how it goes for me atm? Yea a job is awesome, still wish it payed more lol... I'd be able to afford things then, like these lessons.

I am going to get on that song, let's see....freddy king...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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